SSM Greyhounds 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

[Fischhaber]

Today is a big test. We outplayed Ottawa badly in terms of possession, but we need to show that we can make adjustments when it comes to reducing defensive miscues and capitalizing on scoring chances.

Well we outplayed Ottawa even more badly than the first game and limited their chances to almost nothing after the first, but Collin MacKenzie shoved. I don't know what more they could have done.

 

[HockeyPops]

I don't know what more they could have done.

Maybe also done it in the first

 

[HockeyPops]

Sootoday article includes this

Following the game, Dean said rookie Brady Martin, who has been out for an extended period with a lower body injury, is getting close to returning.

Dean said Sunday that Martin is expected to skate on Monday and Tuesday and didn’t rule out the rookie playing in Wednesday’s game.

“It’s a possibility,” Dean said.

 

[Fischhaber]

Maybe also done it in the first

We dealt with several awful calls from the officials in the first, as coach Dean noted in his post-game comments. Even strength was pretty lopsided, much like the other 3 periods. BMB had a couple of glorious chances.

I don't think it's reasonable to ask for more from the team on the third game of a very long distance road trip. You like stout defensive efforts this was one of them. We gave up fewer chances than we did in the previous 2 shutouts.

This kind of stuff just happens sometimes. MacKenzie has our number and is extremely talented. He'll be the league's best goaltender next season if he isn't already the best right now.

 

[HockeyPops]

I just have a hard time with some of the hype. They couldn't have done any more? They didn't win a single period against Ottawa. In 2 games they only won 1 period. Can't ask for more at the end of a roadtrip? Why not?

Is this team a contender or pretender?

Penalties. Hot goalie. Road trip. All excuses. Good teams find ways to win. This team is fourth in the conference by win %. Not sure they belong in the top 3.

Let's see what happens the next few weeks.

 

[frontsfan67]

I just have a hard time with some of the hype. They couldn't have done any more? They didn't win a single period against Ottawa. In 2 games they only won 1 period. Can't ask for more at the end of a roadtrip? Why not?

Is this team a contender or pretender?

Penalties. Hot goalie. Road trip. All excuses. Good teams find ways to win. This team is fourth in the conference by win %. Not sure they belong in the top 3.

Let's see what happens the next few weeks.

You guys ran into a hot goalie. Your goalies the previous 2 games were super hot themselves. It happens. You guys are still a contender. Mackenzie however does seem to have your number as he does with the fronts.

 

[Fischhaber]

I just have a hard time with some of the hype. They couldn't have done any more? They didn't win a single period against Ottawa. In 2 games they only won 1 period. Can't ask for more at the end of a roadtrip? Why not?

Is this team a contender or pretender?

Penalties. Hot goalie. Road trip. All excuses. Good teams find ways to win. This team is fourth in the conference by win %. Not sure they belong in the top 3.

Let's see what happens the next few weeks.

I've been pretty cautious in proclaiming this team as a serious contender. The hype is coming from others.

I like to take a more long term approach to evaluating the team's performances at this point in the season. I think there are a lot of positives to take from this.

This was, in my opinion, on par with the performance against Kingston and better than the performance against Peterborough. We thoroughly dominated a good team at the end of our longest road trip of the season (probably). That's what good teams do. That kind of performance results in a win 95% of the time at least. Read the coach's post-game comments. He pretty much says the same thing and I agree with him. Dave Cameron, on the other hand, was not at all pleased with his team.

You're free to your own opinion, but I would take a step back and look at the bigger picture. I'm pleasantly surprised by some of the performances this year like Karki, Hayes, and Cloutier. Our top 2 players haven't gotten it going yet, but I'm sure that they will. Martin is coming back soo too.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

We won that game in every aspect except the score.... dominated 67s in 2 games and hit a hot goalie again.

I just have a hard time with some of the hype. They couldn't have done any more? They didn't win a single period against Ottawa. In 2 games they only won 1 period. Can't ask for more at the end of a roadtrip? Why not?

Is this team a contender or pretender?

Penalties. Hot goalie. Road trip. All excuses. Good teams find ways to win. This team is fourth in the conference by win %. Not sure they belong in the top 3.

Let's see what happens the next few weeks.

This is super odd behavior after 1 loss, a dominate game played and a loss to a hot goalie after two back to back shutouts.

Or is it because during the Off-season you were SO convinced this team wasn't going to be where they are at this point in the season that you're going to push the goalposts back a few more weeks because the team has been successful?

Hounds haven't beat 67s since 2017...

They dominated the 67s in both games we played them. Outshot them 74 - 44 in the 2 games. Penalties? Ottawa was only 2 for 9 on the PP in 2 games and in game 1 Hounds dominated on the faceoff circle 36 to 24 ( combined 58 - 52 )

This was the wrong game to pick being to start being skeptical of the team, in my opinion.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

I've been pretty cautious in proclaiming this team as a serious contender. The hype is coming from others.

I like to take a more long term approach to evaluating the team's performances at this point in the season. I think there are a lot of positives to take from this.

This was, in my opinion, on par with the performance against Kingston and better than the performance against Peterborough. We thoroughly dominated a good team at the end of our longest road trip of the season (probably). That's what good teams do. That kind of performance results in a win 95% of the time at least. Read the coach's post-game comments. He pretty much says the same thing and I agree with him. Dave Cameron, on the other hand, was not at all pleased with his team.

You're free to your own opinion, but I would take a step back and look at the bigger picture. I'm pleasantly surprised by some of the performances this year like Karki, Hayes, and Cloutier. Our top 2 players haven't gotten it going yet, but I'm sure that they will. Martin is coming back soo too.

Totally agree.

 

[DWI Dale]

dominating possession or the shot clock is not the same as having the elite skill to finish your chances. the excuses get old fast and we've seen the same gaslighting from the homers every season since 2018.

perhaps i shouldn't speak on behalf of HockeyPops but nobody just just started to be skeptical of this team after a loss. i was skeptical in the summer, i'm skeptical now and 1 win or loss isn't going to change that.

it takes some rose coloured glasses and hella misplaced ego to look at a game we lost 4-1 and say we dominated or that we couldn't have done anymore. what planet are you living on?

personally i think the team had a good weekend and that's all that matters.

 

[Houndzfan20]

dominating possession or the shot clock is not the same as having the elite skill to finish your chances. the excuses get old fast and we've seen the same gaslighting from the homers every season since 2018.

perhaps i shouldn't speak on behalf of HockeyPops but nobody just just started to be skeptical of this team after a loss. i was skeptical in the summer, i'm skeptical now and 1 win or loss isn't going to change that.

it takes some rose coloured glasses and hella misplaced ego to look at a game we lost 4-1 and say we dominated or that we couldn't have done anymore. what planet are you living on?

personally i think the team had a good weekend and that's all that matters.

Same. I have been on the sell wagon for the last year. 5 years frankly haha. I'm happy with the progression the boys have made, but i still think our best chance to win is either next year, or the year after. the boat load of picks we could get from selling would help that a lot. i know mississauga will be tearing up the league the next few years, but i'm not covinced we can hang with sudbury after they load up.

but i will still say this, if Raftis thinks this is the year, go all in, not halfway in. deplete the cupboards, restock by trading Gibby next year and maybe cloutier and mignosa and build around the 07s.

 

[HockeyPops]

When I look at the current roster, and then project that roster out into the future, I see next season (24-25) as a step back, but then the following year (25-26) could be pretty good again with our '06s being 19 years old, and some good OA candidates in Cloutier and Mignosa. Being competitive when our 07s are 18 years old should be the goal, IMO, because our 07s will be expected to take on huge roles on that contender, and there is no guarantee that Martin will be here at 19. If we want to look toward the future, then we should be working backward from that goal.

With regards to next season, I think we have to assume that next year we are trading Gibson regardless of what decision is made this year. We should also have more quality OAs next season than we can roster, and can hopefully turn a few of them into excess picks. With our current picks cupboard plus what we get for Gibson and a couple of 04s, we should be in a good spot with some surplus picks going into the Brady Martin years. That is without having to sell off this season. But that is also without loading up this season.

This could be a season where it makes sense to stand pat at the deadline. Give this group a chance to make some post season noise, get our young players some experience of at least 2 rounds of postseason play, and not have to take a huge step back next season as they continue to build for a possible 2 year window when Brady is 18/19.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

dominating possession or the shot clock is not the same as having the elite skill to finish your chances. the excuses get old fast and we've seen the same gaslighting from the homers every season since 2018.

perhaps i shouldn't speak on behalf of HockeyPops but nobody just just started to be skeptical of this team after a loss. i was skeptical in the summer, i'm skeptical now and 1 win or loss isn't going to change that.

it takes some rose coloured glasses and hella misplaced ego to look at a game we lost 4-1 and say we dominated or that we couldn't have done anymore. what planet are you living on?

personally i think the team had a good weekend and that's all that matters.

Did you watch the game?

Some people are WILD.. the same people who want us to go back to the puck possession hockey because that was dominate says that having dominating possession through an entire game means nothing. You want us to go back to these imaginary golden days but then you make a comment like that? I dunno. I love the hypocrisy from the fans who don't even go to/ watch games, though.

 

[Houndzfan20]

When I look at the current roster, and then project that roster out into the future, I see next season (24-25) as a step back, but then the following year (25-26) could be pretty good again with our '06s being 19 years old, and some good OA candidates in Cloutier and Mignosa. Being competitive when our 07s are 18 years old should be the goal, IMO, because our 07s will be expected to take on huge roles on that contender, and there is no guarantee that Martin will be here at 19. If we want to look toward the future, then we should be working backward from that goal.

With regards to next season, I think we have to assume that next year we are trading Gibson regardless of what decision is made this year. We should also have more quality OAs next season than we can roster, and can hopefully turn a few of them into excess picks. With our current picks cupboard plus what we get for Gibson and a couple of 04s, we should be in a good spot with some surplus picks going into the Brady Martin years. That is without having to sell off this season. But that is also without loading up this season.

This could be a season where it makes sense to stand pat at the deadline. Give this group a chance to make some post season noise, get our young players some experience of at least 2 rounds of postseason play, and not have to take a huge step back next season as they continue to build for a possible 2 year window when Brady is 18/19.

some good points made.

Cloutier and Mignosa may well be 2 very good OA's. I need to see a bit more out of Miggy though. our 07s drafted seem to be pretty strong. really excited to see how they pan out. and hopefully Miller develops to be a standout 19 year old by that time. 25-26 would probably be our best bet. but we will need some draft picks so hopefully gibby would fetch a haul. not sure anyone else would at this point.

 

[DWI Dale]

Did you watch the game?

Some people are WILD.. the same people who want us to go back to the puck possession hockey because that was dominate says that having dominating possession through an entire game means nothing. You want us to go back to these imaginary golden days but then you make a comment like that? I dunno. I love the hypocrisy from the fans that don't even go to games, though.

did you attend the road games this weekend or did you watch online like the rest of us? these petty ad hominem attacks you make about not going to games is a sign of a weak argument. as a hockey coach on 2 separate teams i don't get to attend many games in person these days but i still watch. does this invalidate my opinions? imo the only way to prove us wrong is this team making it out of the 2nd round.

you can argue that we dominated in whatever metric you want, we lost in the only metric that counts and your rose coloured glasses and insults to your fellow fans won't change that.

 

[scotty171]

I see zero benefit from standing pat this year. If they decide not to add then they need to trade BMB at the very least and hopefully add a young player in that deal to build around with Martin and Hayes.

 

[HockeyPops]

I honestly think the chance of Raftis trading BMB is as close to zero as is possible. Raftis and Dean in the paper have been rah-rah-rah around this group every chance they get. If selling is off the table, what's better between stand pat and all in?

All in is also probably never as far in as we have seen other teams go. Martin is likely off the table, our picks cupboard is neutral, and Raftis has never completely empied the cupboard in the past. One big addition might be all that he could muster anyway at the deadline this year.

My personal opinion is that we either believe in this current group, or we don't. If we believe in it, then everything should be on the table including Martin. It's been too long since we've won, and using Martin as a trade chip is a small price to pay for a good shot at a championship.

However, if we don't believe in this group enough to trade Martin, then we aren't all in. And if we are trying to preserve our ability to build around Martin, then there is much more than zero benefit in standing pat this year - in fact it might be the best of all worlds. Trying to go "all-in" with only a half-full picks cupboard and no first rounder to dangle is not even close to enough.

 

[HockeyFan000]

building off houndzfan. I personally think both cloutier and Mignosa have looked great. Cloutier has 9 pts in 11gp and Mignosa is 11 in 11. I think Mignosa has looked very good in the past 7game span and seems to be taking off. Earned first pp too now and is taking advantage. Anyways, 4 out of 6pts on the eastern road trip isn’t too bad.. still somehow can’t beat Cameron which is annoying. Anyways hopefully hounds win on Wednesday and take it from there

I would be definitively comfortable having those 2 as oa’s for the hounds

 

[scotty171]

I am not disagreeing at all on Raftis' history of not selling off his top players. Just stating my opinion that standing in the middle is very rarely beneficial in the OHL.

Like we have talked about in the past, not selling has left them in this situation where they don't have an abundance of picks or a real clear direction or go for it window. If they had a loaded cupboard this year I would support it more.

Martin is the best prospect to play for the Hounds in a while. I don't know if there are very many players in the league I'd consider moving him for. We have seen other teams go all in the last few years and recoup those picks back with smart sell offs. It is possilbe to do even though Raftis has shyed away int he past.

 

[Riverfront]

probably to early determine weather the hounds are contenders or not.
What other teams decide to do may also sway Raftis in which way he goes.
Not sold on BMB to lead this team, He is a good player but not elite.

 

[DWI Dale]

Like we have talked about in the past, not selling has left them in this situation where they don't have an abundance of picks or a real clear direction or go for it window.

This! Half in, half out, good not great. No clear vision for the present or the future.

There was no doubt in 2015 or 2018 that we were going for it, we had the core and cupboards to do so. Haven't felt that way since. See no reason to believe we will stack a team around Martin either considering the hounds modus operandi.

 

[HockeyPops]

We have seen other teams go all in the last few years and recoup those picks back with smart sell offs. It is possilbe to do even though Raftis has shyed away int he past.

I honestly can't see a way to do this. Can anyone else? If we go all in this year (except hold onto Martin), how do we restock in time for Martin's window? There will not be many pieces to move next season. Gibson and a couple OAs yes, but beyond that? Maybe we get lucky and Clattenburg becomes a trade chip next year, but I'm not holding my breath. Everyone else on the roster is likely a part of that Martin window.

No, if we empty the cupboard this season, then the best I can see us doing asset-wise in time for the Martin era is to get back to neutral in the cupboard. Probably sacrificing our opportunity to do something significant with Martin while he's here. And in keeping Martin this deadline, we probably can't stay in the arms race this deadline either.

Do we need a big sell this deadline though? Maybe not. This offseason, our current roster looks to turn over 8 players (3 OAs, plus 5 out of 8 '04s). That includes both imports. I think we are in good shape with our current pipeline to fill those 8 spaces. We were very impressed this preseason by four of our '07s (Gillen, Solomon, Smith, Charron). Add in the top two picks from the 2024 draft, plus two imports selections and we have filled our 8 spots with lots of quality (all of which should be more than borderline OHL players).

I understand the desire to participate in a deep sell-off this deadline in preparation for the Martin era, but I really don't see the need. We have drafted pretty well the last couple of years. Standing pat this deadline allows this current group to have a chance to show what they can do, while giving our young core a chance to experience a little run. The sell-off next season (Gibson and a couple OAs) shouldn't be significant enough to cause a big tank, and as our young core takes over they should still be able to make the playoffs next year. That allows the Martin group to continue building off what they learned this year and prepares them for a big year when Martin is 18 years old.

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

Everyone talking about Martin, funny no mention of Hayes and how he might be playing when he hits his prime...

Hounds are in a good position to position themselves well in the Western Conference this year......London lacks draft picks to make a splash and Saginaw lacks the players, Hounds have both at their disposal...

 

[DWI Dale]

Everyone talking about Martin, funny no mention of Hayes and how he might be playing when he hits his prime...

Hounds are in a good position to position themselves well in the Western Conference this year......London lacks draft picks to make a splash and Saginaw lacks the players, Hounds have both at their disposal...

all the more reason to go all-in on those 2 in my opinion. and last i checked we weren't in that much better shape than London in draft pick capital. does someone have the spreadsheet bookmarked that can post a side by side?

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

all the more reason to go all-in on those 2 in my opinion. and last i checked we weren't in that much better shape than London in draft pick capital. does someone have the spreadsheet bookmarked that can post a side by side?