SSM Greyhounds 2022-23 Season Thread

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[HockeyPops]

Hmmmmm......(checks the other 3 teams bidding, we have more pages of posts than any of them)

 

[DWI Dale]

Hmmmmm......(checks the other 3 teams bidding, we have more pages of posts than any of them)

As a data science guy by day, I would suggest that the way to prove or disprove my observation would be to compare this years traffic on the hounds forum to that of previous seasons of hounds forums, not by trying to measure PP's with niagara, kingston or saginaw.

I'm admittedly too lazy to look, but can tell you there has anecdotally been a lot more conversation before, during, and after games in my previous seasons here.

I've noticed the exact same reductions in web traffic on the Soo Greyhounds Facebook Fanclub.

 

[DWI Dale]

it would also be interesting to compare how the number of posts might have changed from the beginning of the season to now. i'm admittedly feeling pretty blasé about the team right now so maybe i'm just projecting my own disappointment on the page.

 

[HockeyPops]

Not disputing traffic is down compared to contending years. I suspect attendance is also down compared to contending years. Those trends are normal and expected IMO. Tough to judge though whether or not it is down more or less than expected. Perhaps your suggested method might shed some light if you went back to previous non contending years and checked to volumes, although it might ignore other trends such as posters joining/leaving the forum, etc. I also agree that's way too much work lol.

For me, I am also feeling blase. But I think my concern stems more from the perceived lack of young talent. I was more excited at the start of the season, expecting more from the young returning forwards (Mignosa, Cloutier, Montroy) and hoping for a spark from the new forwards (Ballard, Brown, Clattenburg, Moses, Good, Kostov). For me, only Kostov is currently meeting expectations out of that large group. I am getting very concerned in our ability to draft quality forwards.

I have come to terms with the way Raftis operates. He never sells big, so he never has assets to go all in. There are pros and cons to that approach that we have and will continue to debate, I am sure. But if you can't draft well, you are never going to be able to contend.

Still, we have lots of season left. The last few games it looks like Hookey might be waking up. Maybe a few of the other forwards follow his lead and start taking big steps. Here's hoping.

 

[DWI Dale]

it is still early, and next season a long way off. plus there's been some bright spots with goaltending and defensive play but the lack of "finish" has been apparent this year.

if we're never going to sell in order to avoid basement seasons but still end up in the basement then I'd ask what the 'pros' of this strategy is? as far as i can see, the last few seasons went exactly as expected for a team that didn't rebuild after a cup run.

 

[Fischhaber]

Not disputing traffic is down compared to contending years. I suspect attendance is also down compared to contending years. Those trends are normal and expected IMO. Tough to judge though whether or not it is down more or less than expected. Perhaps your suggested method might shed some light if you went back to previous non contending years and checked to volumes, although it might ignore other trends such as posters joining/leaving the forum, etc. I also agree that's way too much work lol.

For me, I am also feeling blase. But I think my concern stems more from the perceived lack of young talent. I was more excited at the start of the season, expecting more from the young returning forwards (Mignosa, Cloutier, Montroy) and hoping for a spark from the new forwards (Ballard, Brown, Clattenburg, Moses, Good, Kostov). For me, only Kostov is currently meeting expectations out of that large group. I am getting very concerned in our ability to draft quality forwards.

I have come to terms with the way Raftis operates. He never sells big, so he never has assets to go all in. There are pros and cons to that approach that we have and will continue to debate, I am sure. But if you can't draft well, you are never going to be able to contend.

Still, we have lots of season left. The last few games it looks like Hookey might be waking up. Maybe a few of the other forwards follow his lead and start taking big steps. Here's hoping.

I don't see how a team can justify selling big when they haven't missed the second round of the playoffs for a decade.

 

[DWI Dale]

I don't see how a team can justify selling big when they haven't missed the second round of the playoffs for a decade.

if being an easy second round out is your "CUP" then that explains a lot lol.

personally i look at a team like Hamilton winning two cups in 4 years with a rebuild in the middle as my model for success.

 

[PuckLife]

I'm incredibly happy to see Mac Hallowell get on the board last night with the Leafs. I had him as a longshot - he keeps proving me wrong.

 

[HockeyPops]

Sounds like Miller might be recalled from what I've heard. Either Schenkels injury is going to keep him out a while, or Ivanov is on the move....

 

[DWI Dale]

I'm incredibly happy to see Mac Hallowell get on the board last night with the Leafs. I had him as a longshot - he keeps proving me wrong.

seems like he's been a longshot at every step in his career for sure. always seems to get himself through with his work ethic and likeability.

 

[Houndzfan]

Sounds like Miller might be recalled from what I've heard. Either Schenkels injury is going to keep him out a while, or Ivanov is on the move....

During the radio broadcast, Gerry mentioned that Schenkel was on the bench but unavailable to back up Ivanov. I'd imagine that it's the injury that has Miller being recalled.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

I heard possible wrist injury. Possibly a broken wrist. Can't say 100% though.

Would be weird to have him sitting on the bench if it was broke but could be something they did not find out about until after...

 

[Kristina Hazzard]

Not disputing traffic is down compared to contending years. I suspect attendance is also down compared to contending years. Those trends are normal and expected IMO. Tough to judge though whether or not it is down more or less than expected. Perhaps your suggested method might shed some light if you went back to previous non contending years and checked to volumes, although it might ignore other trends such as posters joining/leaving the forum, etc. I also agree that's way too much work lol.

For me, I am also feeling blase. But I think my concern stems more from the perceived lack of young talent. I was more excited at the start of the season, expecting more from the young returning forwards (Mignosa, Cloutier, Montroy) and hoping for a spark from the new forwards (Ballard, Brown, Clattenburg, Moses, Good, Kostov). For me, only Kostov is currently meeting expectations out of that large group. I am getting very concerned in our ability to draft quality forwards.

I have come to terms with the way Raftis operates. He never sells big, so he never has assets to go all in. There are pros and cons to that approach that we have and will continue to debate, I am sure. But if you can't draft well, you are never going to be able to contend.

Still, we have lots of season left. The last few games it looks like Hookey might be waking up. Maybe a few of the other forwards follow his lead and start taking big steps. Here's hoping.

This comment "Mignosa, Cloutier, Montroy) and hoping for a spark from the new forwards (Ballard, Brown, Clattenburg, Moses, Good, Kostov). For me, only Kostov is currently meeting expectations out of that large group. " Really fustrated me because every year we have been able to pluck a very good player out of the lower rounds and you worried about our drafting. Personally Clattenburg has really impressed me play pently kill, gets under player skin and finishes every check. As for good he has really gotten the chance and when he does he play 2 shifts the whole game. Montroy just got call up give him time to practice with team. And he never sells I'm sorry why did taylor raddysh come her or Anthony delangelo. What do last year should we have traded BMB? To run not a chance honestly I don't feel like the Thompson trade even hurt us.

May I remind you that Matthew virgillo was supposed to be a Top 5 pick. Not to mention Landon Miller will be good. Be patient. I understand we haven't done a rebuild in years people forget what it's like to lose. But honestly if we were to win every overtime game we would be in first place.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

Next year depends on memorial cup. If we aren't the host, it's probably a good idea to sell... especially BMB.

If we get Memorial Cup, stack the team.

The team obviously has intentions of being competitive next year or why bid at all ( maybe Nordh shows up ), but I don't think it's worth chasing pipe dreams if we don't have the back door entry next year... so I think a lot is riding on Memorial Cup bid.

Raftis and Co. are too accepting of positions at times and they seem to accept crappy teams or try to convince themselves that what they have IS the best. I don't know what it is but we are always too late to react, and seems like we are behind the ball in terms of developing again.

I don't think our forward core is very good at all.... like bottom 5 in the league type thing... needs tons of work..doesn't matter how "young" they are. The guys you expected to take MASSIVE steps haven't, and some have regressed...

 

[HockeyPops]

This comment ... Really fustrated me

At least you are feeling the frustration the rest of us are feeling.

Personally Clattenburg has really impressed me play pently kill, gets under player skin and finishes every check

I am not convinced Clattenburg is going to be anything more than another Jacklin. Besides, plucking a very good player from the lower rounds is only an advantage when you have already made good selections in the upper rounds. In the past we have seen our second year players take leaps forward. It hasn't happened yet with any of our forwards despite there being oodles of opportunity available for any player that shows a glimpse of something.

To be frank, it seems like we rounded out our roster this year with a bunch of forwards who are maybe not even OHL calibre. The Greyhounds are a team built on skill. But when I look at our roster of 12 forwards born 2004 or later, the only ones who I can picture EVER playing top 6 are big MCB, Allard, Mignosa, Brown. That's not a good sign for a mem cup bid, or even for a retool to get ready for another run in a few years.

May I remind you that Matthew virgillo was supposed to be a Top 5 pick. Not to mention Landon Miller will be good. Be patient.

Yes, thank you for the reminder. I agree with everything you posted here. My gripe is with the forwards, not the defense or goaltending (for once). I am very high on the back end actually, and just don't want to waste the opportunity by failing to complement them with capable forwards.

 

[Kristina Hazzard]

At least you are feeling the frustration the rest of us are feeling.


I am not convinced Clattenburg is going to be anything more than another Jacklin. Besides, plucking a very good player from the lower rounds is only an advantage when you have already made good selections in the upper rounds. In the past we have seen our second year players take leaps forward. It hasn't happened yet with any of our forwards despite there being oodles of opportunity available for any player that shows a glimpse of something.

To be frank, it seems like we rounded out our roster this year with a bunch of forwards who are maybe not even OHL calibre. The Greyhounds are a team built on skill. But when I look at our roster of 12 forwards born 2004 or later, the only ones who I can picture EVER playing top 6 are big MCB, Allard, Mignosa, Brown. That's not a good sign for a mem cup bid, or even for a retool to get ready for another run in a few years.


Yes, thank you for the reminder. I agree with everything you posted here. My gripe is with the forwards, not the defense or goaltending (for once). I am very high on the back end actually, and just don't want to waste the opportunity by failing to complement them with capable forwards.

Clattenburg was a 10th rounder! He is a very different player than Jacklin. Clattenburg is always in your face where Jacklin was not interested in playing. We don't have many second year forwards just saying

 

[scotty171]

What is the quickest way to retool the forward group? Is it to just accept a bad finish and try to get Roobreock or Moore in the draft? Roll the dice on some underachievers from other teams?

It seems like they have a lot of complimentary forwards at best. The back end and goaltending look fine moving forward. This is a real test for Raftis and I am wondering what way he goes.

Clattenburg was a 10th rounder! He is a very different player than Jacklin. Clattenburg is always in your face where Jacklin was not interested in playing. We don't have many second year forwards just saying

Clattenburg is fine as a 4th line forward I guess but they seem to have players of this similar mold throughout a forward group that lacks top end skill.

 

[HockeyPops]

Haven't heard much about Allard's injury recently but whatever the timeline is, when we finally reinsert him in the lineup it is going to immediately improve this forward group. Regardless of whether he's rusty or not, not in game shape, etc., it's his skill that is most needed in a forward group that has too many players playing over their head right now.

Over the next 2 years, maybe Cloutier will get there as a T6 forward. Maybe Montroy will as well. It's just really hard to picture it right now based on what I see on the ice each week.

 

[HockeyPops]

By the way, our forward depth is by far the worst in the league. We only have 9 forwards with more than 1 point. The other 6 forwards on the roster, despite having a combined 77 games, have been unable to hit the score sheet more than once.

 

[OHL4Life]

At least you are feeling the frustration the rest of us are feeling.


I am not convinced Clattenburg is going to be anything more than another Jacklin. Besides, plucking a very good player from the lower rounds is only an advantage when you have already made good selections in the upper rounds. In the past we have seen our second year players take leaps forward. It hasn't happened yet with any of our forwards despite there being oodles of opportunity available for any player that shows a glimpse of something.

To be frank, it seems like we rounded out our roster this year with a bunch of forwards who are maybe not even OHL calibre. The Greyhounds are a team built on skill. But when I look at our roster of 12 forwards born 2004 or later, the only ones who I can picture EVER playing top 6 are big MCB, Allard, Mignosa, Brown. That's not a good sign for a mem cup bid, or even for a retool to get ready for another run in a few years.


Yes, thank you for the reminder. I agree with everything you posted here. My gripe is with the forwards, not the defense or goaltending (for once). I am very high on the back end actually, and just don't want to waste the opportunity by failing to complement them with capable forwards.

said this before, but there was a bit exit on the scouting side after the 02 draft. since then raftis promoted someone with not a great deal of experience to the top of the scouting team and really, how good have their drafts been? id offer not good at all.

 

[DWI Dale]

And he never sells I'm sorry why did taylor raddysh come her or Anthony delangelo. What do last year should we have traded BMB? To run not a chance honestly I don't feel like the Thompson trade even hurt us.

That's not selling, that's BUYING!

Selling is how you restock the cupboards after making a run. We didn't do that after going all-in in 2018. We shouldn't have sold BMB we need him next year. But we SHOULD have sold guys like Frost, Hayton, O'Rourke, or Kerins. I've heard every excuse over the years... "It's a buyers market" ... "They didn't want to leave"... etc.

Mix in a few longshot draft picks that were never going to come here and a series of imports not reporting and you get what you see today.

We also don't have any top tier talent to trade this year so we have failed to stockpile 2nds and 3rds which are needed to make deals at the deadline next season.

I know I sound like a broken record but this is exactly what some of us have been warning about since 2019 and it really baffles my mind that some of you are so shocked that this is where we are at talent wise. You were sold magic beans about not needing to rebuild. Does anybody have buyers remorse yet?

 

[HockeyPops]

said this before, but there was a bit exit on the scouting side after the 02 draft. since then raftis promoted someone with not a great deal of experience to the top of the scouting team and really, how good have their drafts been? id offer not good at all.

I wouldn't say they were not good at all. But if you want to avoid a rebuild they need to be good every year.

I still really like their 2020 draft ('04s).
BMB is good in the 1st. Carlisle and Schenkel good in the 5th. Allard good in the 7th.
Toms is ok in the 3rd. Van De Ven, still not sure about, was in the 13th.
Spent a late 4th on McGroarty and didn't have a 2nd. Also had a couple other flyer picks taken late on good players who didn't report. Those are acceptible as long as you hit on your other picks as he did that year.

The 2022 draft ('06s) is also shaping up to be a good one. Brown has started slow, but too early to give up on him. The next 4 picks are all looking really solid so far. And who knows, there may be a few more gems we find in those later round picks when next training camp rolls around.

The 2019 draft ('03s) at this point looks like a complete bust. Savard (11th round) the only bright spot.

The 2021 draft ('05s) has a few good players but is probably below average overall. Not much depth in there at all past the 4th round, and a couple picks in the top 4 that are underperforming relative to their position.

 

[OHL4Life]

I wouldn't say they were not good at all. But if you want to avoid a rebuild they need to be good every year.

I still really like their 2020 draft ('04s).
BMB is good in the 1st. Carlisle and Schenkel good in the 5th. Allard good in the 7th.
Toms is ok in the 3rd. Van De Ven, still not sure about, was in the 13th.
Spent a late 4th on McGroarty and didn't have a 2nd. Also had a couple other flyer picks taken late on good players who didn't report. Those are acceptible as long as you hit on your other picks as he did that year.

The 2022 draft ('06s) is also shaping up to be a good one. Brown has started slow, but too early to give up on him. The next 4 picks are all looking really solid so far. And who knows, there may be a few more gems we find in those later round picks when next training camp rolls around.

The 2019 draft ('03s) at this point looks like a complete bust. Savard (11th round) the only bright spot.

The 2021 draft ('05s) has a few good players but is probably below average overall. Not much depth in there at all past the 4th round, and a couple picks in the top 4 that are underperforming relative to their position.

comparing it to other soo drafts, its not even close to as successful. i think theyve gone from the best drafting team in the ohl to a very average drafting team.

 

[Houndzfan20]

That's not selling, that's BUYING!

Selling is how you restock the cupboards after making a run. We didn't do that after going all-in in 2018. We shouldn't have sold BMB we need him next year. But we SHOULD have sold guys like Frost, Hayton, O'Rourke, or Kerins. I've heard every excuse over the years... "It's a buyers market" ... "They didn't want to leave"... etc.

Mix in a few longshot draft picks that were never going to come here and a series of imports not reporting and you get what you see today.

We also don't have any top tier talent to trade this year so we have failed to stockpile 2nds and 3rds which are needed to make deals at the deadline next season.

I know I sound like a broken record but this is exactly what some of us have been warning about since 2019 and it really baffles my mind that some of you are so shocked that this is where we are at talent wise. You were sold magic beans about not needing to rebuild. Does anybody have buyers remorse yet?

Same. I've been saying for years that we have to sell the farm and be in contention every fourth year.

I will say though that i was on board last year for a total buy. key word being total though. we had a really good core and thought with a few more additions we could have made some noise. stopping at thompson was a mistake. needed another couple impact forwards and a mean defenceman. losing dickinson hurt too but if you're only getting thompson and nothing else, may as well have sold kerins, o'rourke, mckay and kartye.

we are paying for it now

 

[HockeyPops]

i think theyve gone from the best drafting team in the ohl to a very average drafting team.

I can agree with this. They seem to have had their share of misses. But a pretty good 2020 and 2022 draft is a great start to the next cycle if they can get a good 2023 draft as well. Let's see what happens this summer.