Suntouchable13
Registered User
Absolutely crucial Springer rebounds a little or at least stays the same. It’s kinda scary, to be honest. Ross Atkins has left so much to chance, it’s unreal.
Blue Jays Discussion: Spring Training Discussion: Countdown to the Season (Thursday at 3pm ET/noon PT)
- Thread starter The Nemesis
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I always forget about Jimenez when we talk about the AAA depth, probably because his offensive profile is lower than most of the others and a light-hitting, glove first player is about the last thing they need right now.
Assuming Clement and Horwitz make the team, they should still have Orelviz, Palmegiani, Roden, Barger, and Jimenez in Buffalo. And even beyond them you have Brown, Britton, Clarke, and Robertson, who were old for AA but still had strong offensive seasons. Who knows if any of them will pan out, but the depth of under-the-radar guys is pretty wild right now.
The Iceman
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- Sep 22, 2007
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No conspiracy. No parroting, my very own opinion based on the facts that are available.
The incoming President wanting every move to be run by him for approval.
Shapiro had his own vision and AA ran out of town as quickly as he could.
The reigning Executive of the year left his home country without a job lined up.
And what has AA been up to since?
AA has gone on to win 6 consecutive NL East crowns in 6 seasons as a GM including a World Series.
And had President added to his GM title.
YUP, very bad move by Rogers...
The Iceman
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YUP....called taking the high road.
Some times you need to take the facts and think them through for yourself.
Executive of the year
loves his team
Family loved Toronto
had a playoff run
BUT HE LEAVES...WHY???
You clearly do not understand what the word facts means.
What you have presented is a supposition.
The facts are that he was offered a new contract AND it even included an opt out for AA (which is unheard of in this organization). That's literally the opposite of being forced out.
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Does anyone know who is wearing #99. I saw him walking around the bullpen yesterday and didn’t get a good look at his face.
The Iceman
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NEVER said he was forced out.
AA left on his own.
WHY do you think he left?
Just because he didn't want to be a GM anymore for a team he built to a playoff run?
Or because he didn't like the raise and contract flexibility he was offered?
Do your best detective work and it will make sense.
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
Could be the fact that the core was old and the Jays had to go through a rebuilding/retooling process after he left.
AA leaving due to oversight and then taking a VP/advisor role with the Dodgers doesn’t scream autonomy. Why did he wait around until the Braves job opened up? I’m sure other orgs were looking for a GM/Pres and would’ve given him all the flexibility in the world.
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The Iceman
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When AA decided to leave the Blue Jays he didn't hop right back into a GM role.
He was offered and accepted a job as VP of Operations with the top team in the league the LA Dodgers.
2 years later he joined the bad 72-90 Atlanta Braves and immediately turned them into a 90-72 team that has won the division all 6 years AA has been there.
Wish he would have stayed home with the Jays.
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No, you actively implied it. Take a look at the post you quoted.
And to answer your other question, there were rumblings that AA thought that he was the favorite for the President job and that he was upset that he didn't get it.
Again, there are many problems here. The biggest one is that Shapiro was absolutely needed as President of the Jays and Anthopoulos would have been terrible in that role. Citing his successes as GM of the Braves completely ignores that Shapiro inherited an absolute mess and has fixed it (and the AA inherited a good situation in Atlanta).
Atkins is the GM that Shapiro chose and while I don't agree with some of the things he has done (cough, nearly the entire offseason, cough), I am willing to see what happens on the field (whether Matthingly's new role and internal improvements matter more than the moves that we all wanted) before I call for his head.
I was a huge fan of AA as GM. I had more faith in him than most here, but he's gone and has been gone for years. One of the hardest takeaways now is that a lot of what AA did well in Toronto and Atlanta hasn't been possible for Atkins (nobody likes Toronto's prospects because so many have failed)
What gets me about the AA stuff is the people still waxing poetic about what a great scholar and hero he was in 2024 never seem to acknowledge his shockingly bad draft record. The only reason we had that 2015/2016 outburst was because he burned the cupboards and the cupboards ended up being terrible anyway.
Thank god he sold high on Daniel Norris and Jeff Hoffman. Who knows, maybe he could have gone out and gotten Zobrist like he wanted if he had anything besides Alberto Tirado and Jimmy Cordero after that.
Thank god he sold high on Daniel Norris and Jeff Hoffman. Who knows, maybe he could have gone out and gotten Zobrist like he wanted if he had anything besides Alberto Tirado and Jimmy Cordero after that.
Man, that's the definition of conspiratorial thinking.
Kurtz
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Rumour was that the ask for Zobrist was a package revolving around Rowdy Tellez, but AA didn't want to part with that piece.
I think his draft record is largely overlooked because he signed Vlad. We haven't really drafted well since Gord Ash.
The Iceman
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Do remember AA was 32 years old when he was hired as the Jays GM and by his own admission was just starting to figure things out.
Looks pretty darn good now compared to the current Jays GM who has maxed out the team salary to record highs, depleted the farm system and still cant win a playoff game.
Looks pretty darn good now compared to the current Jays GM who has maxed out the team salary to record highs, depleted the farm system and still cant win a playoff game.
The Iceman
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I liked AA. I was sad to see him go. It was relevant for a couple years.
Still being bent out of shape over it and bringing it up endlessly here 9 years later is just … sad.
LaP
Registered User
I mean here's a quote from the article you linked
"Per Rosenthal, Anthopoulos was offered a long-term deal, and his decision to leave is not related to money or the length of the contract. Rosenthal believes Anthopoulos' departure has to do with the arrival of former Cleveland Indians president Mark Shapiro as Toronto's team president.
Rick Westhead of TSN reported Thursday Shapiro "scolded" Anthopoulos and the Blue Jays staff "for trading so many top prospects this [year]" in their first and only meeting together.
According to Jays play-by-play announcer Mike Wilner, there is no indication Anthopoulos left for another job because no positions of note are currently open. Steve Simmons of the Toronto Sun reported Anthopoulos wanted the full responsibilities of a general manager and recently told Simmons that "he wouldn't stay under conditions less than that."
I don't know what your point is.
None of these things suggest that the Jays made AA leave. Also, the people comparing AA to Atkins are completely missing the part where AA has two jobs with Atlanta and was always likely to leave if a President spot opened up.
Again, no one is arguing that AA as GM was bad or anything like that. I have and will continue to argue that he was not the right fit as President at the time given that Toronto was an absolute mess (talking about things that Shapiro had to clean up). In Atlanta, he inherited a decent spot to be the Preseident without having to firefight from day one.
I'd even go so far as to suggest that there aren't a whole lot of fans here (if any) who would prefer AA over Atkins as GM. The issue is that the scenario where AA stays as GM only simply doesn't exist.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
This documentary on Nimmala just answered my question about whether it was done before he was drafted or after. Because I kept wondering why he was giving out a Mets jersey or there were no references to the Blue Jays.
It'd be cool for a follow-up of him going back now that he's drafted and seeing if it leads to a particular explosion of Blue Jays popularity among Indian baseball fans.
It'd be cool for a follow-up of him going back now that he's drafted and seeing if it leads to a particular explosion of Blue Jays popularity among Indian baseball fans.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
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His detective work wouldn’t be facts. So as he said you don’t understand what a fact is. You are making an assumption. Maybe he didn’t like the vision they had for the jays. Maybe he wanted to move on since his mentor retired. Maybe he hated his new boss. Maybe he thought he should be the president and GM and was offended by it. We will never know. The only “facts” are that he was offered a substantial raise and term and he turned it down and walked away. Then took as assistant gm job it LA which would have also taught him a lot about being a strong gm. He no longer works with us and that was HIS decision. Rogers did nothing wrong.
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