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Blue Jays Discussion: - Spring Training Discussion: Countdown to the Season (Thursday at 3pm ET/noon PT) | Page 4 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
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Blue Jays Discussion: Spring Training Discussion: Countdown to the Season (Thursday at 3pm ET/noon PT)

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Still trying to figure out if Manoah is just a young kid learning a lesson or simply a douche.
Well I can say that myself at his age was definitely a young kid learning a lesson...and a bit of a douche as well... He needs to learn how to fail to be honest. Many times failing doesn't involve a quick turn around where you get to be cocky again. Hopefully he learns that while he still has a chance to be good again.
 
Well I can say that myself at his age was definitely a young kid learning a lesson...and a bit of a douche as well... He needs to learn how to fail to be honest. Many times failing doesn't involve a quick turn around where you get to be cocky again. Hopefully he learns that while he still has a chance to be good again.
It’ll be very interesting if he doesn’t make the opening day roster if he reports to AAA this time. I’m not convinced he won’t turn it around but that may be his humbling moment. Things came fast and furious and it’s the biggest challenge of this life. Same with Vlad having the learn to deal with adapting. He hasn’t fully founf his way back yet either. Sucks that it’s out guys. Always seems to be the way
 
If you want me to rank the order of likelihood I see for those 4 to break camp with the Jays I think it's

1) Barger (3B/RF would be useful to fill the hole on the left side of the infield and to spell Springer on days he needs to DH or take a rest. If the idea of Kiner-Falefa getting the bulk of 3B reps repulses you and you're not sold on an Espinal rebound, he might be the most likely candidate)

2) Horwitz (strictly 1B/DH limits his usefulness and he's not a thunderous bat that will force his way into playing time so it's not like he's high value and tops out as a bench bat. But if they carry a 5th bench slot for a pinch hitter then there are worse options)

3) Martinez (Seems like it'd be starter or bust for him to make the Jays. He shouldn't be sitting on the bench at this stage of his career. And he may be better off continuing to get reps at 2B in Buffalo where there's not as much pressure on him until he proves he can't be held down anymore. But if he absolutely explodes this spring then you can't look psat him)

4) Roden (The bat is supposed to be nice in a high-contact, middling power sort of way. Thing is that he's considered a mediocre-to-bad fielder who really only fits in LF and while Varsho sliding out of left to cover CF or RF in the absence of Kiermaier or Springer is a perfectly good solution, do you want to use a bench OF spot on a LF-only guy who's just a contact bat?)



The argument against Chapman is that the D is coming down off its "elite" perch and we don't know how much longer he'll be great at the corner. And the bat is starting to show some cracks too (he's been closer to a 110 wRC+ bat the last 4 years or so than he has been to his 125+ peak and last year's surface-good results are largely swung by 2 great months offsetting 4 extremely crappy ones)

Maybe this works out in the Jays' favor though. Bellinger's deal shows there's not a huge appetite for pricey Boras clients and their sky-high demands. Maybe you see if he'll sign a deal for <$25m a year for one year plus an option or something. Trade Espinal for a depth starter or medium leverage pen arm and roll with Chapman as the primary 3B, pushing Kiner-Falefa into his proper super-utility role. It's not a perfect solution but it is an acceptable one.



It seems like the Jays' TV plans are to do their own broadcasts for home games and simulcast the opponent's feed for road ones. They were visiting the Tigers today and it seems like Detroit didn't put together a broadcast, so we were out of luck.



No reason to panic, but reason to be concerned. Guys like Bassitt and Kikuchi came into their first starts looking to tinker with stuff. One would think that Manoah's first order of business would be establishing himself and getting comfortable before he gets into the "it's ok if he gets lit up because he was mostly just throwing curveballs" or whatever sort of run. The fact that he had no command, plunked 3 guys and had more runs than hits is enough cause to be suspicious of him if not fully dismissive yet.



It's 1 spring start. These are meaningless games designed to work through stuff like this. It would seem like the team is not banking on him being the #5 starter so there's no reason not to give him a few starts to see if he can sort it out. If 2 weeks from now he's still struggling maybe you look at what to do with him away from the MLB roster, but for now this is the sort of setup designed to try and help him figure this out if he's willing.
I'm a little concerned, but I just went through his pitch chart quickly and have a couple of notes.

1) He wasn't missing over the plate. In all of his struggles, there was only 1 pitch in the meat of the plate with everything else on the edges.

A positive that I take out of his performance is that he threw a 95 mph fastball on pitch 18 of the first inning that was well aimed. One of the negatives of last year was that his velocity and control would dip as he threw more pitches in an inning.

Again, it is one start, and while Manoah was throwing his pitches regularly, he was also completely avoiding the meat of the plate. Of the pitches that scored Detroit runs, one was a ball, and neither were bad pitches.

Edit: Adding on to this: Blue Jays' Manoah calls velo bump a 'good check point’ after rough outing

Based on that, he was actually throwing better pitches (beyond the pitch charts), but the actual release point needs a little bit of fine tuning (which should naturally happen as he throws more)
 
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And for some reason Ross is immune to get fired. IF Jays have a poor season, both Atkins and Shapiro have to go.
Ross is immune because he is an absolute puppet for Shapiro.
Everything Atkins does and everything that comes out of his mouth is directly from Shapiro.

The exact reason our superstar Canadian GM AA is in Atlanta. He wasn't going to be Shapiro's puppet.

And he is positively killing it for the Braves.
 
Ross is immune because he is an absolute puppet for Shapiro.
Everything Atkins does and everything that comes out of his mouth is directly from Shapiro.

The exact reason our superstar Canadian GM AA is in Atlanta. He wasn't going to be Shapiro's puppet.

And he is positively killing it for the Braves.

It’s always fun seeing this idea parroted, like there was some conspiracy to oust a “superstar Canadian GM” by ownership.
 
Good crowd today.


He kept the ball down and throws ground balls.

Holy hell, I didn't realize he's 37. I thought maybe he was some late 20s farmhand castoff from somewhere else or a faceless low-tier international signing who made good. Turns out he's a career OK-AAA guy who's been pretty replacement level in a brief big league run in 2021-22.
 
Wondering what the chances are Chapman just accepts the QO from us. Never even considered that as a possibility. I highly highly doubt it but it crossed my mind
 
Wondering what the chances are Chapman just accepts the QO from us. Never even considered that as a possibility. I highly highly doubt it but it crossed my mind
The QO had a deadline. Also, 20M would cost the Jays 26M.

AA left 10 seasons ago. It's time to get over it.

It's like being a 37 year old dude still pining for your college girlfriend.
It's also funny that there seems to be a lot of revisionist history surrounding him leaving when it was reported at the time that he was offered a sizeable raise but left as a petty gesture for not being named President.
 
The QO had a deadline. Also, 20M would cost the Jays 26M.


It's also funny that there seems to be a lot of revisionist history surrounding him leaving when it was reported at the time that he was offered a sizeable raise but left as a petty gesture for not being named President.
Itks just the typical nonsense when someone leaves and has success elsewhere. I"m not sure the people who wish the person stayed ever consider the possibility that the person who left could have failed here if they stayed. Yes, AA might have stayed and the Jays win multiple World Series, but it"s als possible that he could have stayed and the Jays retrn to being a mediocre non-competing team like they were for the 20 years before 2015. We'll never know.
 
Itks just the typical nonsense when someone leaves and has success elsewhere. I"m not sure the people who wish the person stayed ever consider the possibility that the person who left could have failed here if they stayed. Yes, AA might have stayed and the Jays win multiple World Series, but it"s als possible that he could have stayed and the Jays retrn to being a mediocre non-competing team like they were for the 20 years before 2015. We'll never know.
To be fair, Beeston was an absolute trash President and Shapiro has been objectively better. The odds were stacked against AA being a successful President here given that his mentor was the direct cause of a lot issues that had to be fixed.

Those people are clamoring over GM AA, a role he didn't want here.
 
He's rejected it already.

The QO had a deadline. Also, 20M would cost the Jays 26M.


It's also funny that there seems to be a lot of revisionist history surrounding him leaving when it was reported at the time that he was offered a sizeable raise but left as a petty gesture for not being named President.
Ah, had forgotten about the deadline :ha: thanks gents
 
The QO had a deadline. Also, 20M would cost the Jays 26M.


It's also funny that there seems to be a lot of revisionist history surrounding him leaving when it was reported at the time that he was offered a sizeable raise but left as a petty gesture for not being named President.
Not to mention 99% of the fanbase hated him before his big deadline and wanted him fired and guys like me were called rogers apologists at the time for supporting him and his vision. Too see the endless AA stuff a decade later is mind numbing
 
Holy hell, I didn't realize he's 37. I thought maybe he was some late 20s farmhand castoff from somewhere else or a faceless low-tier international signing who made good. Turns out he's a career OK-AAA guy who's been pretty replacement level in a brief big league run in 2021-22.
Ha ha. As we were waiting for him to come out and warm up in the pen, my son was googling him.
 
Oh wow. I'm sure everyone remembers that former Red Sox pitcher Tim Wakefield died of cancer in October.

I was just reading an article on The Athletic and it disclosed that Wakefield's widow had also privately been diagnosed with and was fighting cancer, but she just passed away today.

I can't imagine what this has to be like for their family, especially their kids. Losing both parents to cancer in the span of less than 6 months is absolutely heartbreaking.
 
Oh wow. I'm sure everyone remembers that former Red Sox pitcher Tim Wakefield died of cancer in October.

I was just reading an article on The Athletic and it disclosed that Wakefield's widow had also privately been diagnosed with and was fighting cancer, but she just passed away today.

I can't imagine what this has to be like for their family, especially their kids. Losing both parents to cancer in the span of less than 6 months is absolutely heartbreaking.
Brutal
 
Oh wow. I'm sure everyone remembers that former Red Sox pitcher Tim Wakefield died of cancer in October.

I was just reading an article on The Athletic and it disclosed that Wakefield's widow had also privately been diagnosed with and was fighting cancer, but she just passed away today.

I can't imagine what this has to be like for their family, especially their kids. Losing both parents to cancer in the span of less than 6 months is absolutely heartbreaking.
That is just terrible.

I had heard his wife also had cancer because Kurt Shilling is a complete pos and outed both of their medical situations when they wanted it kept private.
 
Oh wow. I'm sure everyone remembers that former Red Sox pitcher Tim Wakefield died of cancer in October.

I was just reading an article on The Athletic and it disclosed that Wakefield's widow had also privately been diagnosed with and was fighting cancer, but she just passed away today.

I can't imagine what this has to be like for their family, especially their kids. Losing both parents to cancer in the span of less than 6 months is absolutely heartbreaking.
That stuff is absolutely heartbreaking. Having to watch both your young parents get that sick and losing their battles so close together. That’s a lot of pain in a short amount of time
 
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