Speculation: Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXIII

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Signing the offer sheet gets him out of Montreal. He doesn't have to accept a lower AAV on his next deal for that. He'd get 6.1m or be a free agent if he doesn't sign that lower AAV deal.

They dont give him a 6 mill offer sheet if he isnt gonna sign for less after, the offer sheet had to be enough to make mtl not match it, both parties know he is overpaid with this offer and Carolina has to give up a 1st for him, if they dont know he's cheaper in a year they probably dont make that offer. He should be 3 mill or less right now, he got double that.
 
They dont give him a 6 mill offer sheet if he isnt gonna sign for less after, the offer sheet had to be enough to make mtl not match it, both parties know he is overpaid with this offer and Carolina has to give up a 1st for him, if they dont know he's cheaper in a year they probably dont make that offer. He should be 3 mill or less right now, he got double that.

Carolina has to give him a QO of 6.1m next summer if they don't sign him to an extension. And why would Kotkaniemi sign for less if he has either a 6.1m QO coming up or the opportunity to go the UFA route at age 22, signing with whoever he wants?
 
So, if the Habs don't match. Trade Strome to Montreal and try to get Trocheck out of Carolina? No way the Canes will be able to afford Aho, Kotka, Necas and Trocheck.
 
Carolina has to give him a QO of 6.1m next summer if they don't sign him to an extension. And why would Kotkaniemi sign for less if he has either a 6.1m QO coming up or the opportunity to go the UFA route at age 22, signing with whoever he wants?
Because he'll probably make less as a UFA than if a team with his RFA rights is paying more to buy UFA years.

What would Kotkaniemi make on the open market right now as a UFA, with 62 points in 172 GP? Not 6 million per. Probably not 5 either.

Don't get hung up on the 6.1. He probably won't make that with any team on his next contract.
 
Because he'll probably make less as a UFA than if a team with his RFA rights is paying more to buy UFA years.

What would Kotkaniemi make on the open market right now as a UFA, with 62 points in 172 GP? Not 6 million per. Probably not 5 either.

Don't get hung up on the 6.1. He probably won't make that with any team on his next contract.

I am not sure I follow the logic why Carolina would pay him 6.1m when it cost them a 1st and a 3rd and then not even tender him a qualifying offer next summer. And as long as they tender him a QO, JK can just sign it.
 
I am not sure I follow the logic why Carolina would pay him 6.1m when it cost them a 1st and a 3rd and then not even tender him a qualifying offer next summer. And as long as they tender him a QO, JK can just sign it.
Im not sure we should be looking for rational reasons for a decision made in spite.
 
Im not sure we should be looking for rational reasons for a decision made in spite.

I don't think they would have offered that much if it were solely in spite... they obviously believe there's potential future for him going, even if there was an ulterior motive.
 
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The Hurricanes have probably been negotiating with Kotkaniemi’s camp for a while. I’m sure they have a good feeling for what he looking for on a decent term contract. I’m also pretty sure that the player and the team worked towards this specific deal to try to pry him out of Montreal. Could Kotkaniemi sign only QO’s from here on out? Sure. I’m doubtful that is what transpires.
 
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I am not sure I follow the logic why Carolina would pay him 6.1m when it cost them a 1st and a 3rd and then not even tender him a qualifying offer next summer. And as long as they tender him a QO, JK can just sign it.
They will tender a QO. Kotkaniemi could sign it and be a UFA next year. But Carolina will offer a multiyear deal at lower cap hit than 6.1.

Will Kotkaniemi turn down something like 5 x 8 and instead take 6.1 x 1? He’ll make more in year one, granted. But then as a UFA, who is paying him 5 million per season, or more?

He hasn’t established himself as a top-six player. It’d be a gamble for any team. More likely he signs something like 3-4 x 2 as a UFA. So now he’s losing money compared to a longer-term deal with Carolina as an RFA.
 
I don't think they would have offered that much if it were solely in spite... they obviously believe there's potential future for him going, even if there was an ulterior motive.

This. People keep talking about it like Carolina only did it to get back at Bergevin; that would be insane.

They obviously have an idea of how they want to approach it, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kotkaniemi and his agent were involved in the discussions about that direction.
 
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Carolina has to give him a QO of 6.1m next summer if they don't sign him to an extension. And why would Kotkaniemi sign for less if he has either a 6.1m QO coming up or the opportunity to go the UFA route at age 22, signing with whoever he wants?

Unless Kotkaniemi has a breakthrough season, he will become unrestricted FA next summer. Almost no one is going to qualify him at 6.1 if he keeps his current pace. He's like a 30pt center right now. But beyond points, I'd like to understand his ceiling as a player. I look at his highlights thus far and from memory of seeing him play against us and others, he still seems like a big bodied kid who is still quite raw. It's still very unclear what kind of player he is going to be. He seems like a more raw version of Chytil. I don't know that he tops out as anything more than a middle 6 center right now because I'm not seeing the kind of flashes with him you see with other young kids his age who turn out to be top 6 kids. Are we seeing moments where his hands or vision look special? His shot?

He is far from someone that right now you pay 6.1 for. Many teams can pay him 6.1 for a year. But then when you don't qualify him next summer he can go anywhere. So, what's he worth then? A young raw 30pt center for 1 season when he's very much so figuring things out. AND he cost 6.1m. And likely walks in a year unless he falls in love with his new situation so much he's willing to resign after not getting his QO.

Given that, would you trade a 1st and a 3rd for 1 year of Kotka? A kid you may have to bury on the depth chart from time to time? I doubt most teams are going to take that leap. If you're BUF, are you really going to take this guy in an Eichel trade as a main piece, knowing you may not qualify him and if you don't there's almost no chance he resigns?

Everyone is saying, this is bad for MTL and CAR but it's good for Kotka. I disagree. I think when you're as raw as he is, keeping your salary down and finding a place where you can work through your mistakes and grow should be the priority. And now if he plays for MTL next season, a team that actually needs him with the loss of Danault, they realize he's only there for a year. They have to be mindful of how much they develop him vs focusing on other kids. He's likely going to be on the block this season now. If he's in CAR, he's pretty far down the center depth chart. And at 6.1m he's not going to the A likely. So, I think there's some considerable risk for him in signing this deal. This year is a pretty big one for him developmentally. And it would suck if he's with an organization that may not be the best spot for him developmentally.

BUF might be the best spot for him. We might have been an interesting spot for him but i'm not sure he makes sense in our salary structure moving ahead with his 6.1 QO.
 
Unless Kotkaniemi has a breakthrough season, he will become unrestricted FA next summer. Almost no one is going to qualify him at 6.1 if he keeps his current pace. He's like a 30pt center right now. But beyond points, I'd like to understand his ceiling as a player. I look at his highlights thus far and from memory of seeing him play against us and others, he still seems like a big bodied kid who is still quite raw. It's still very unclear what kind of player he is going to be. He seems like a more raw version of Chytil. I don't know that he tops out as anything more than a middle 6 center right now because I'm not seeing the kind of flashes with him you see with other young kids his age who turn out to be top 6 kids. Are we seeing moments where his hands or vision look special? His shot?

He is far from someone that right now you pay 6.1 for. Many teams can pay him 6.1 for a year. But then when you don't qualify him next summer he can go anywhere. So, what's he worth then? A young raw 30pt center for 1 season when he's very much so figuring things out. AND he cost 6.1m. And likely walks in a year unless he falls in love with his new situation so much he's willing to resign after not getting his QO.

Given that, would you trade a 1st and a 3rd for 1 year of Kotka? A kid you may have to bury on the depth chart from time to time? I doubt most teams are going to take that leap. If you're BUF, are you really going to take this guy in an Eichel trade as a main piece, knowing you may not qualify him and if you don't there's almost no chance he resigns?

Everyone is saying, this is bad for MTL and CAR but it's good for Kotka. I disagree. I think when you're as raw as he is, keeping your salary down and finding a place where you can work through your mistakes and grow should be the priority. And now if he plays for MTL next season, a team that actually needs him with the loss of Danault, they realize he's only there for a year. They have to be mindful of how much they develop him vs focusing on other kids. He's likely going to be on the block this season now. If he's in CAR, he's pretty far down the center depth chart. And at 6.1m he's not going to the A likely. So, I think there's some considerable risk for him in signing this deal. This year is a pretty big one for him developmentally. And it would suck if he's with an organization that may not be the best spot for him developmentally.

BUF might be the best spot for him. We might have been an interesting spot for him but i'm not sure he makes sense in our salary structure moving ahead with his 6.1 QO.

I get that he's really young and he should develop a lot more.

Not only does
So theres a legit question to be made, how much does mtl's system stifle is his offense?
He's looked good at times, but he's also looked tentative.
 
So theres a legit question to be made, how much does mtl's system stifle is his offense?
He's looked good at times, but he's also looked tentative.

Well I suppose that's it. No one knows. That's part of the risk.

Like would you trade Strome straight up for Kotka right now? Is that a Brassard/Mike type deal? Maybe, but that 6.1 changes things. And if we traded Strome for Kotka we'd likely be worse at first. And unlike Mika, Kotka could likely walk at year's end. Would you have traded Brassard for just 1 year of Mika (first year with us Mika)? I doubt it. And Mika seems like the much more gifted player. But again, who knows, make Kotka has a few more levels to reach?
 
Kotkaniemi is probably not going to have a great year for Carolina, but my guess it’s up to Carolina to either lock him up for a long term deal for +6m after that or enter into a pretty short relationship with him.

I don’t buy Kotkaniemi taking 4.5m per long term buying out UFA years with 6m on the table. He can make 6m per until he is a UFA, and that is plenty of time to ‘bet on yourself’.

He cannot make 6M/year if he has a bad year. CAR can just not qualify him and nobody is going to give him 6M+ long term as a UFA if he is coming off another bad year. Considering he likely their 4C or 3LW I would not expect him to put up huge numbers this year that would make teams want to pay him that. I could certainly see him taking 4.5M as a bridge for a few years but even that is quite high if he doesn't have a good year.
 
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