Sidney Crosby Top 5 player of all time

[Sensinitis]

I like Crosby I just wouldn't put him ahead of Sakic or Yzerman that's all

Both those guys never even won an Art Ross...

 

[TheBluePenguin]

Two Hart and Art Ross trophies seem low for 5th of all time.

He is also 6th all time PPG while playing in a much lower scoreing era then any of the players around him, lack of trophies because of injuries does hurt his case a bit but they are also not the entire story. Roy only has one more Vezina than Tim Thomas, are they anywhere close when ranking all time goalies?

Only other active players on the top 30 list are Geno 16, Ovi 21 and Jagr 25.

 

[WingsFan95]

Top 5 at all positions? No.
Top 5 skaters? No.
Top 5 forwards? No.

Maybe Top 10 forwards.

Howe, Richard, both Hulls, Jagr, Gretz, Lemieux, Esposito, Bossy, Messier, Ovechkin, Fedorov. All those guys are ahead to me. Beliveau too. But I guess you could slot him ahead of Brett Hull, Fedorov and Bossy to get him #10.

I guess I don't think the Ovechkin-Crosby debate in NHL terms is all that close. Ovechkin has 8 Rockets for heaven's sake, 1 more Hart, 1 less Art Ross and 2 less Cups which is a largely team aspect.

 

[WingsFan95]

He is also 6th all time PPG while playing in a much lower scoreing era then any of the players around him, lack of trophies because of injuries does hurt his case a bit but they are also not the entire story. Roy only has one more Vezina than Tim Thomas, are they anywhere close when ranking all time goalies?

Only other active players on the top 30 list are Geno 16, Ovi 21 and Jagr 25.

Roy as a goaltender was infinitely more valuable than Crosby. Record 3 Smythes and most wins in the playoffs.

Two Hart and Art Ross trophies seem low for 5th of all time.

No kidding.

I don’t even like Crosby. Actually very much dislike him. But he’s 100% a top 5 player of all time.

He’s been inarguably a top 2 player in the NHL for like 12 years. Playing with mostly bums on his wings.

Even when you think he’s kinda dropped off he becomes elite at something else. Like defense lol.

In a league the way it’s currently done. The parity is too high and he and Ovi are more or less the posterboys for consistency where you can’t expect any. They’re both top 10 all time. And depending on the cups and play in their next 7-10 or so years. You may be able to argue for them to creep into passed an untouchable or two imo.

Gretzky is forever untouchable. Some dude would need to win like 6 rings and 10 MVPs because the stats aren’t attainable

Ovechkin has 8 goal scoring titles. That's all-time dominance. Crosby has none of that. Injuries are part of the game. Even so Lemieux and Bossy did a hell of a lot more in their shortened careers. I think if Crosby is on 1 ring this isn't even a discussion.

His dominance is nowhere near numerous other forwards let alone skaters.

 

[Red Dread]

He is also 6th all time PPG while playing in a much lower scoreing era then any of the players around him, lack of trophies because of injuries does hurt his case a bit but they are also not the entire story. Roy only has one more Vezina than Tim Thomas, are they anywhere close when ranking all time goalies?

Only other active players on the top 30 list are Geno 16, Ovi 21 and Jagr 25.

I understand its not the entire story, but hardware still plays a part.

To be clear, I'm not arguing that Crosby doesn't belong on an all-time list. I'm saying that to be 5th of all time, you'd need an indisputable case proving Crosby is a smarter and a more talented, valuable, efficient, etc. player than any one else being argued for that spot and more below. I'm not sure where Crosby sits because so often the topic gets misled by hypothetical "what-ifs" and inflating Crosby's postseason success with his teams' success.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Ovechkin has 8 goal scoring titles. That's all-time dominance. Crosby has none of that. Injuries are part of the game. Even so Lemieux and Bossy did a hell of a lot more in their shortened careers. I think if Crosby is on 1 ring this isn't even a discussion.

His dominance is nowhere near numerous other forwards let alone skaters.

How many individual awards did Beliveau win?

 

[RorschachWJK]

surprising on a hockey forum that players have fans eh? Nice revelation.

Where did I say surprising?

 

[myperbixhurts]

Both those guys never even won an Art Ross...

That's because during Yzerman and Sakic days there were more star players, when Crosby was winning Art Ross there was him and Ovechkin pretty much, until the last couple years when McDavid came to the league, and now Kucherov etc...

But besides that, I wouldn't put Crosby ahead of a guy like Jagr either

Edit: Just to clarify, when I said there were more star players during Sakic and Yzerman days, I mean elite players putting up 100+ points. When Crosby was winning Art Ross, the only players put up 100+ points were him and Ovechkin, so he didnt really have a lot of competition for Art Ross

 

[ImporterExporter]

Not yet. And I'm a diehard Sid/Pens fan.

Ask me again when his career is over. He proved this year he's got plenty left in the tank.

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

That's because during Yzerman and Sakic days there were more star players, when Crosby was winning Art Ross there was him and Ovechkin pretty much, until the last couple years when McDavid came to the league, and now Kucherov etc...

But besides that, I wouldn't put Crosby ahead of a guy like Jagr either

Edit: Just to clarify, when I said there were more star players during Sakic and Yzerman days, I mean elite players putting up 100+ points. When Crosby was winning Art Ross, the only players put up 100+ points were him and Ovechink, so he didnt really have a lot of competition for Art Ross

There was more 100 point players during Yzerman's/Sakic days because league scoring rates were significantly higher. For context the highest league scoring rate during Crosby's 14 year carrer would be the third lowest scoring would've been the third lowest league scoring rate during Yzerman's first 14 years in the league. In spite of that Yzerman's PPG in that 14 year period is only 0.02 higher than Crosby's.

 

[Sensin5]

He is 5th, people love to freak out and say "no no no he can't be top 5!" But fail to actually argue the point. Who can you argue over Crosby at #5?

Well, I thought "of course he is" until I was reminded of some others that to my mind are still ahead of him. He's right up there for sure, but not sure that he is ahead of Gordie Howe, Jean Beliveau or Bobby Hull yet. Will likely end up there but will need benefit of perspective over time.

 

[crosbyshow]

Roy as a goaltender was infinitely more valuable than Crosby. Record 3 Smythes and most wins in the playoffs.



No kidding.



Ovechkin has 8 goal scoring titles. That's all-time dominance. Crosby has none of that. Injuries are part of the game. Even so Lemieux and Bossy did a hell of a lot more in their shortened careers. I think if Crosby is on 1 ring this isn't even a discussion.

His dominance is nowhere near numerous other forwards let alone skaters.

**

So are you ready to admit that Lemieux would have done 1000 goals in his carreer ? cause...look the guy missed 5 1/2 season between 24 and 35 years old and he still has 700 goals.....unbelievable.

You said that injuries are part of the game...so are the Cups ( team aspect....)

Crosby missed at least 2 full season at his prime ( 23-24-25 years old)....you can add him at least 1 Hart and 1 Art Ross easily....Actually ....serious question...did we really saw Crosby's prime

 

[daver]

I guess I don't think the Ovechkin-Crosby debate in NHL terms is all that close. Ovechkin has 8 Rockets for heaven's sake, 1 more Hart, 1 less Art Ross and 2 less Cups which is a largely team aspect.

So OV > Crosby in 13/14? How about 15/16? How about this year? How did Crosby win the Lindsay in 2013 for heaven's sake?

Seems strange that their respective Hart and Lindsay wins and nominations are so close given OV's rocket wins. And given how many seasons Crosby had bad luck with injuries and couldn't play a full one.

 

[myperbixhurts]

There was more 100 point players during Yzerman's/Sakic days because league scoring rates were significantly higher. For context the highest league scoring rate during Crosby's 14 year carrer would be the third lowest scoring would've been the third lowest league scoring rate during Yzerman's first 14 years in the league. In spite of that Yzerman's PPG in that 14 year period is only 0.02 higher than Crosby's.

Regardless those stats, there were more 100 point players in those years compared to Crosby's. I mean regardless scoring being up or down, there were not many players good enough to put up 100 points and compete with Crosby and Ovechkin for Art Ross, and now that there are more players putting up 100+ points, Crosby is no longer winning Art Ross and he's only 31 and not that old. That's my whole point.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Howe
5. Richard
6. Beliveau
7. Crosby
8. Ovechkin
9. Jagr
10. Hull
11. Harvey

 

[crosbyshow]

In 2012-2013....Crosby had a broken jaw...he played only 36 games and he still almost won the Art Ross ........(56 points...) Ovechkin had 56 points that hear in 48 games...

Injuriez are part of the game...but you have to look at it ...Crosby would have easily 2 more Art ross......easy...

 

[Martin Skoula]

He is also 6th all time PPG while playing in a much lower scoreing era then any of the players around him, lack of trophies because of injuries does hurt his case a bit but they are also not the entire story. Roy only has one more Vezina than Tim Thomas, are they anywhere close when ranking all time goalies?

Only other active players on the top 30 list are Geno 16, Ovi 21 and Jagr 25.

His lack of trophies might be because of injuries, but so is his 6th all time PPG. If you take only the seasons in which he had 60+ games played, his career PPG falls below Forsberg's, and that's before he plays out his mid-late 30s and has his PPG drop even further.

 

[daver]

His lack of trophies might be because of injuries, but so is his 6th all time PPG. If you take only the seasons in which he had 60+ games played, his career PPG falls below Forsberg's, and that's before he plays out his mid-late 30s and has his PPG drop even further.

Forsberg's PPG finishes (min. of 36 games and no Mario):

1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 5, 5, 9, 11, 17

Crosby's:

1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 13

Remove the duplicates:

Forsberg:

5, 5, 9, 11, 17

Crosby:

1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 13

 

[myperbixhurts]

If you make a list of best players ever that includes players from every era, Crosby would barely make the top 10 list, but to not go very far back and only include players that played in 80's and up Crosby still doesn't make top 5...

Gretzky
Lemieux
Jagr
Bourque
Sakic
Yzerman
Lidstrom
Crosby

 

[Voight]

Both those guys never even won an Art Ross...

From 1981 to 2001, only 3 players won the Art Ross trophy.

Thats not really a good point to make against them. Kind of hard to win a scoring title when your competing against the best and 4th best of all time plus another top 10 talent in Jagr.

 

[Voight]

In 2012-2013....Crosby had a broken jaw...he played only 36 games and he still almost won the Art Ross ........(56 points...) Ovechkin had 56 points that hear in 48 games...

Injuriez are part of the game...but you have to look at it ...Crosby would have easily 2 more Art ross......easy...

Ovechkin would easily have won the Art Ross in 2009 & 2010 if he played a couple more games those years. It works both ways.

 

[crosby87]

Regardless those stats, there were more 100 point players in those years compared to Crosby's. I mean regardless scoring being up or down, there were not many players good enough to put up 100 points and compete with Crosby and Ovechkin for Art Ross, and now that there are more players putting up 100+ points, Crosby is no longer winning Art Ross and he's only 31 and not that old. That's my whole point.

lmfao

 

[iamjs]

If you make a list of best players ever that includes players from every era, Crosby would barely make the top 10 list, but to not go very far back and only include players that played in 80's and up Crosby still doesn't make top 5...

Gretzky
Lemieux
Jagr
Bourque
Sakic
Yzerman
Lidstrom
Crosby

none of those bolded are top 10. Even calling Jagr top 10 might be a stretch for most lists.

On most lists, Sakic is around 15-20 as is Bourque.

 

[myperbixhurts]

none of those bolded are top 10. Even calling Jagr top 10 might be a stretch for most lists.

On most lists, Sakic is around 15-20 as is Bourque.

From 80's and up? So who's your list from that era?

 

[Shaman464]

none of those bolded are top 10. Even calling Jagr top 10 might be a stretch for most lists.

On most lists, Sakic is around 15-20 as is Bourque.

No idea why you'd bold Lidstrom. He definitely was a better player than Crosby is. Crosby is a generational player, and definitely one of the best to play the game, but Lidstrom redefined how his position was played, and did it at a time when European players were still less respected than North American players.