Post-Game Talk: GAME 57 - Disaster in the Third Period - Vegas 4 BRUINS 3

[TorontLoL 67]

Missing playoffs will get Jacobs attention for sure.

One can only hope

 

[22Brad Park]

One can only hope

When money stops going in the pockets ,people will have to answer for it

 

[TorontLoL 67]

I do think Elias Lindholm will turn out to be a solid 2C here when all is said and done. I'm not ready to quit on him yet. Not in a year when the entire team has completely underwhelmed. Safety in numbers right?

 

[bruinmann77]

WELL we all know that if the Bruins don't make the Playoffs then Jacobs will then be almost forced to move on from the front office.
Now i have know idea who should take over there? But they should Hold onto that first as well move any pending FA maybe except for Marcy unless he wants out.

 

[The Un4casted Storm]

I kinda agree with this. Missing the playoffs on the final game of the season sucks way more than being 5-10 games out and already been eliminated for the previous couple of weeks. Not only do you just miss the playoffs you're stuck with a bad/mediocre team, at least if the team is trending down (which the Bruins definitely are).

I just really don't want to turn into the Red Wings from 10 years ago. I think the Bruins are in a better position to rebound more quickly than Detroit was but they need to recognize the reality that this group just isn't going to get it done whether they sneak into the playoffs or not. Look to trade anyone who isn't in the long-term plans and start restocking the cupboards a bit. Frankly, they should have done that last year with DeBrusk and Grzelcyk. I think I'll actually lose my mind if they pull that self-rental garbage with Frederic and let him walk for nothing at the end of the year haha

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

As I acknowledged, it's not easy. But Don's been doing this for a long time. Since 2015, he's drafted precisely three forwards post the first round that have played in the NHL - Studnicka, Lauko and Poitras - a bust, an ok 4th liner and a we-shall-see. Plus he unearthed Brazeau, a JAG bottom 6 forward. That's it, in 9 years. Is it not reasonable to expect at least a little more than that? Yeah you can easily make excuses, and you have to look at the scouting staff too, but success demands greatness, plus a dose of luck, and I'm not sure Sweeney has had either in this regard.

Joona Koppanen 5th round 2016 and Oskar Steen 7th round 2016. Sure, one guy only played 9 games, and the other guy was more renowned for his thighs than his 60 games. But they did play.

And saying over the last 9 drafts is a bit disingenuous also. Almost no one over the last 3 seasons drafted after the first round has played much, if any, in the NHL. Poitras, for example, has played more NHL games than any other 2022 pick after the first round. Both the 2023 & 2024 drafts had 1 player each play in the NHL after first rounders.

I will concede that Sweeney hasn't had much luck in the draft. But when someone picks a player after, say, the 50th pick and he's a successful NHL player, its more about luck than greatness.

WELL we all know that if the Bruins don't make the Playoffs then Jacobs will then be almost forced to move on from the front office.
Now i have know idea who should take over there? But they should Hold onto that first as well move any pending FA maybe except for Marcy unless he wants out.

I don't think so.

 

[DaBroons]

Mindset was different. They didn’t care at all about upside they just wanted to draft guys who had a high floor and could work on the 3rd and 4th line. Hence the Jam comment. Really ridiculous stuff. But yeah clearly haven’t learned anything over the last decade because the system is ranked close to if not the bottom annually. Sure they did eventually try to get people with higher upside but they keep missing.

I'd say it's more accurate to say that since Chia and Clode were here, that they've been obsessed, not with 3rd liners per se, but with "200-foot" players, but glossing over shortcomings in offensive skills, but never shortcomings in defensive skills. Thus, end result was a lot of 3rd liners. They would NEVER had drafted Barzal. Because he never was going to play behind Bergy and Krecji for 5-7 years as a third liner; he's not that kind of player.

That's the opposite of what to do. Draft speed and skill--that was Chicago's philosophy and it resulted in 3 cups. You can teach anyone to check if they are willing. Sometimes, it's really hard--McNab and Middleton come to mind--but when you combine the skill of those two players with their willingness to work hard in the end, the results are awesome.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

Joona Koppanen 5th round 2016 and Oskar Steen 7th round 2016. Sure, one guy only played 9 games, and the other guy was more renowned for his thighs than his 60 games. But they did play.

And saying over the last 9 drafts is a bit disingenuous also. Almost no one over the last 3 seasons drafted after the first round has played much, if any, in the NHL. Poitras, for example, has played more NHL games than any other 2022 pick after the first round. Both the 2023 & 2024 drafts had 1 player each play in the NHL after first rounders.

I will concede that Sweeney hasn't had much luck in the draft. But when someone picks a player after, say, the 50th pick and he's a successful NHL player, its more about luck than greatness.

Yeah ok 2 more busts. And sure, scrub out the last 2 drafts as too recent. Doesn't change things much.

Is post pick 50 drafting pure luck? 'Cause if it is I'd wager we could save some money on scouting costs! It also makes GMs largely unaccountable for much of their draft performance. That doesn't seem quite right.

 

[Hookslide]

You look at that and wonder, why hasn’t there been a bunch of turnover in the amateur scout department. That’s Sweeney’s team. He should realize after some good old whiffs that it may be time for a change

You have a legit point, but do you ever consider that they just don't develop these kids enough to make to the NHL and succeed if they do.

Carlo and Beecher are both the team boat anchors with Coyle not too far behind.

You need a few etc,etc in there.

 

[Hookslide]

First game of the year in-person for me, it's clear that they lack players up front that have the ability to accept passes, beat people one on one, and get the puck on net.
The Carlos, Coyles, etc. Are complimentary players and need to play with more talented teammates. The frustration for me is that they should at least see what they have in Merk and Lysell.

Zadorov is what he is and I liked his game. He was the first one to skate over to the big to compliment wahlstrom after the fight!
BTW just ran into Carlo and his family headed on vaca. At Logan, Really nice guy.

For all his faults this year I, do believe Zadorov is a team guy and does care.

 

[TorontLoL 67]

For all his faults this year I, do believe Zadorov is a team guy and does care.

He gets a pass as much as anyone else who deserves to stay. This first season of #91 and #28 feels like a mulligan. I'll stand firmly in the minority.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Yeah ok 2 more busts. And sure, scrub out the last 2 drafts as too recent. Doesn't change things much.

Is post pick 50 drafting pure luck? 'Cause if it is I'd wager we could save some money on scouting costs! It also makes GMs largely unaccountable for much of their draft performance. That doesn't seem quite right.

No, not pure luck. But mostly luck, in my opinion.

I've never been at a draft table, or draft meetings of NHL teams. I guess everyone that gets drafted has a scout stand up and say, yes that's the guy to take. Better a positive reference than just a name out of a hat.

Anyway, I'm sure sometime soon AI will be drafting players and scouts will be a thing of the past.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

No, not pure luck. But mostly luck, in my opinion.

I've never been at a draft table, or draft meetings of NHL teams. I guess everyone that gets drafted has a scout stand up and say, yes that's the guy to take. Better a positive reference than just a name out of a hat.

Anyway, I'm sure sometime soon AI will be drafting players and scouts will be a thing of the past.

It would be interesting if someone did a study into the late picks that made it big. What was it about them that a) meant they weren't picked higher, b) did get them picked eventually, and c) allowed them to succeed and thrive where most others did not? Would there be any common themes I wonder? Is there something that ties together the likes of Point, Pavelski and Stone? Or is it indeed largely pure chance or things that were entirely unknowable at the time?

And yes, I think AI will have a bigger and bigger role in such things in the future. A shame really, but that's the way the world is moving.

 

[Bradely]

No, not pure luck. But mostly luck, in my opinion.

I've never been at a draft table, or draft meetings of NHL teams. I guess everyone that gets drafted has a scout stand up and say, yes that's the guy to take. Better a positive reference than just a name out of a hat.

Anyway, I'm sure sometime soon AI will be drafting players and scouts will be a thing of the past.

Bold part, yes I think so, sadly though.!!

 

[chizzler]

It would be interesting if someone did a study into the late picks that made it big. What was it about them that a) meant they weren't picked higher, b) did get them picked eventually, and c) allowed them to succeed and thrive where most others did not? Would there be any common themes I wonder? Is there something that ties together the likes of Point, Pavelski and Stone? Or is it indeed largely pure chance or things that were entirely unknowable at the time?

And yes, I think AI will have a bigger and bigger role in such things in the future. A shame really, but that's the way the world is moving.

How’s that work out for Buffalo?

 

[bobbyorr04]

I'd say it's more accurate to say that since Chia and Clode were here, that they've been obsessed, not with 3rd liners per se, but with "200-foot" players, but glossing over shortcomings in offensive skills, but never shortcomings in defensive skills. Thus, end result was a lot of 3rd liners. They would NEVER had drafted Barzal. Because he never was going to play behind Bergy and Krecji for 5-7 years as a third liner; he's not that kind of player.

That's the opposite of what to do. Draft speed and skill--that was Chicago's philosophy and it resulted in 3 cups. You can teach anyone to check if they are willing. Sometimes, it's really hard--McNab and Middleton come to mind--but when you combine the skill of those two players with their willingness to work hard in the end, the results are awesome.

Don't forget the great coaching by Joel Quenneville and solid goaltending from Crawford

 

[22Brad Park]

I'd say it's more accurate to say that since Chia and Clode were here, that they've been obsessed, not with 3rd liners per se, but with "200-foot" players, but glossing over shortcomings in offensive skills, but never shortcomings in defensive skills. Thus, end result was a lot of 3rd liners. They would NEVER had drafted Barzal. Because he never was going to play behind Bergy and Krecji for 5-7 years as a third liner; he's not that kind of player.

That's the opposite of what to do. Draft speed and skill--that was Chicago's philosophy and it resulted in 3 cups. You can teach anyone to check if they are willing. Sometimes, it's really hard--McNab and Middleton come to mind--but when you combine the skill of those two players with their willingness to work hard in the end, the results are awesome.

This is a very good take.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

How’s that work out for Buffalo?

How so? I'm aware Buffalo use computer modeling to try and project the future performance of potential picks, but I'd assume every team does that. Do the Sabres use any form of actual AI?

 

[chizzler]

How so? I'm aware Buffalo use computer modeling to try and project the future performance of potential picks, but I'd assume every team does that. Do the Sabres use any form of actual AI?

AI, I would assume can only go by numbers, right?

 

[Concessionaire]

AI, I would assume can only go by numbers, right?

For now, what something like ChatGPT does is absorb a HUGE amount of written language and then based on that data makes predictions about what text should be used to answer questions. It doesn't really think, per se, it makes mathematical calculations about what word should come next.

So yes, to use AI in the draft one would have to feed it every bit of relevant data to find drafting patterns, especially patterns defined as "successful." I'm sure all the major sports are having AI pitched to them aggressively if they're not using it already.

The real game changer will be when AI is able to analyze video and interpret what it sees. That's still a ways off, but I'm sure it will happen one day.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I'd say it's more accurate to say that since Chia and Clode were here, that they've been obsessed, not with 3rd liners per se, but with "200-foot" players, but glossing over shortcomings in offensive skills, but never shortcomings in defensive skills. Thus, end result was a lot of 3rd liners. They would NEVER had drafted Barzal. Because he never was going to play behind Bergy and Krecji for 5-7 years as a third liner; he's not that kind of player.

That's the opposite of what to do. Draft speed and skill--that was Chicago's philosophy and it resulted in 3 cups. You can teach anyone to check if they are willing. Sometimes, it's really hard--McNab and Middleton come to mind--but when you combine the skill of those two players with their willingness to work hard in the end, the results are awesome.

In the 2006 draft, Chicago had the 3rd pick overall. Phil Kessel was the speed and skill guy. Bruins took him 5th. Chicago took "200-foot" player Jonathan Toews.

Probably the biggest reason Chicago won 3 Cups.