Sidney Crosby Top 5 player of all time

[OKOptimistic]

He's the greatest of all time

 

[Fantomas]

I've seen many well-reasoned "greatest OAT" lists by knowledgeable people and one thing is for certain: there is no consensus at all about spots 5-15, or thereabouts, and no one agrees about who is #5.

For this reason alone Crosby will probably have an argument by the time he's done.

Personally Ray Bourque is my #5, but I see him as low as mid-teens on some lists. The only thing we know for sure is that there is a firm top-4. After that there's about eight to a dozen guys all with a strong argument for #5.

 

[Fantomas]

Here's Ray Bourque in Norris voting in his career:

1980 - 4th
1981 - 4th
1982 - 2nd
1983 - 3rd
1984 - 3rd
1985 - 2nd
1986 - 4th
1987 - 1st
1988 - 1st
1989 - 4th
1990 - 1st
1991 - 1st
1992 - 2nd
1993 - 2nd
1994 - 1st
1995 - 3rd
1996 - 2nd
1997 * finally drops off* - 7th
1998 - 7th
1999 - 3rd
2000 - 7th
2001 - 2nd

This is absolutely nuts. The guy was not lower than 4th in Norris voting until his 18th (!) season.

 

[FinProspects]

Being #5 of all time would require one dominant (reg) season still+hiqh quality seasons until he is 40. I dont think Sid will reach the undisputed #5 ever.

But he is top10 already.

 

[Chris18820]

I hate Crosby because he's whining little ***** who expected preferable treatment and Buttman provided it. Those who worship him as a top 5 are sadly experiencing idolized tunnel vision. Otherwise, I think he's a great player, but not top 5 for the reasons stated by GreatGonzo. Crosby never dominated but received solid backing from a very good team.

If you adjust for era Crosby ranks 3rd in ppg behind the Great one and Super Mario. Solid backing from a very good team... nonsense. Look at the backing Gretzky had during a large part of his career. I wouldnt exactly call the linemates Crosby has had in his career great either.

 

[FinProspects]

How can a guy with only two Art Rosses be the fifth best player of all time?

If you can only be the leading point getter twice I don’t see how you can even be in the conversation

Especiall when fore example Martin St Louis has two Arts as well. Connor has two arts in 4 seasons already. What is the fuzz about when it comes to Sid?

Trophy counting without any context is the best, isnt it?

Anyways, I do agree that Sid is not top5, and will have a lot of work to do in order to reach that status. But there are more to it than just counting Art Rosses.

 

[pi314]

I've seen many well-reasoned "greatest OAT" lists by knowledgeable people and one thing is for certain: there is no consensus at all about spots 5-15, or thereabouts, and no one agrees about who is #5.

For this reason alone Crosby will probably have an argument by the time he's done.

Personally Ray Bourque is my #5, but I see him as low as mid-teens on some lists. The only thing we know for sure is that there is a firm top-4. After that there's about eight to a dozen guys all with a strong argument for #5.

I think I woke up in an alternate universe today because I agree with you.

 

[RorschachWJK]

There is something soothingly delightful about watching the loyal soldier ants of the Leibstandarte Sidney Crosby crawl out of the woodwork, onto the barricades, like a clockwork.

It's like watching clouds, moving water or a fire burning...an almost therapeutic quality.

 

[Son Goku]

There is something soothingly delightful about watching the loyal soldier ants of the Leibstandarte Sidney Crosby crawl out of the woodwork, onto the barricades, like a clockwork.

It's like watching clouds, moving water or a fire burning...an almost therapeutic quality.

surprising on a hockey forum that players have fans eh? Nice revelation.

 

[daver]

Pretty much what I said

Put 40 goals scorer Guentzel on Sid’s line during those seasons and he probably has 15 more assists in each season

You think Guentzel is a "40 goals scorer" on any line you put him on?

Crosby produces regardless of who is on his line like great players do. He did not see a drop in his production after 13/14 because of his linemates; he was producing at an era best rate for the five seasons before 14/15 with, at best, mediocre linemates.

His numbers speak for themselves.

 

[daver]

Crosby isn’t even the best forward playing right now. He’s definitely not Top 5 all-time and has a ways to go before he’s in that conversation.

When do you think he was the best forward playing?

 

[pi314]

surprising on a hockey forum that players have fans eh? Nice revelation.

Well done. You gave me one of these.

 

[Slimmy]

He is 5th, people love to freak out and say "no no no he can't be top 5!" But fail to actually argue the point. Who can you argue over Crosby at #5?

It's a pointless discussion. How do you compare skaters to goalies? How do you compare defenceman to forwards? How do you compare wingers to centers? Ovy absolutely has a case over Crosby. I'm not going to dismiss Crosbys awards outright but it's flawed logic to simply count awards and say they are the metric for which the greatest players are. Most successful? Yeah, I guess.

 

[TheGuiminator]

You think Guentzel is a "40 goals scorer" on any line you put him on?

Crosby produces regardless of who is on his line like great players do. He did not see a drop in his production after 13/14 because of his linemates; he was producing at an era best rate for the five seasons before 14/15 with, at best, mediocre linemates.

His numbers speak for themselves.

You clearly miss my point, what do you try to argue here?

I said : put that version of 2018-19 Jake Guentzel on any of Crosby’s line from 2006 to 2013 and Sid is probably putting up video game numbers.

 

[daver]

You clearly miss my point, what do you try to argue here?

I said : put that version of 2018-19 Jake Guentzel on any of Crosby’s line from 2006 to 2013 and Sid is probably putting up video game numbers.

You missed my point. I don't like these hypothetical scenarios that are positioned to argue a player over another. It is a baseless claim that allow people with biases to try to argue for a player over another.

The way you are arguing is that Crosby would not have hit a 100 points this year without Guentzel. Is that what you are saying?

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Jack Eichel is the greatest player of all time. That is all.

 

[Gabe the Babe]

I don’t even like Crosby. Actually very much dislike him. But he’s 100% a top 5 player of all time.

He’s been inarguably a top 2 player in the NHL for like 12 years. Playing with mostly bums on his wings.

Even when you think he’s kinda dropped off he becomes elite at something else. Like defense lol.

In a league the way it’s currently done. The parity is too high and he and Ovi are more or less the posterboys for consistency where you can’t expect any. They’re both top 10 all time. And depending on the cups and play in their next 7-10 or so years. You may be able to argue for them to creep into passed an untouchable or two imo.

Gretzky is forever untouchable. Some dude would need to win like 6 rings and 10 MVPs because the stats aren’t attainable

 

[TheGuiminator]

You missed my point. I don't like these hypothetical scenarios that are positioned to argue a player over another. It is a baseless claim that allow people with biases to try to argue for a player over another.

The way you are arguing is that Crosby would not have hit a 100 points this year without Guentzel. Is that what you are saying?

Based on the last 4 years, yes

It’s not a knock on Crosby to finally have someone able to finish his plays, you know.

Forget the years between 2006 and 2013, Crosby was at his best, he could had made Craig Adams and Tanner Glass 30 goals scorers.

But it comes a time in his career where he needs to have better linemates in order to produce at a 100 points level. He’s 31 y/o now, you really think he could put up 100 points with 3rd liners? Come on man this isn’t 2010 anymore

 

[daver]

Based on the last 4 years, yes

It’s not a knock on Crosby to finally have someone able to finish his plays, you know.

Forget the years between 2006 and 2013, Crosby was at his best, he could had made Craig Adams and Tanner Glass 30 goals scorers.

But it comes a time in his career where he needs to have better linemates in order to produce at a 100 points level. He’s 31 y/o now, you really think he could put up 100 points with 3rd liners? Come on man this isn’t 2010 anymore

He did exactly that two years ago. He was the best player in the world that season while carrying 3rd liners and taking on a more defensive role.

Crosby, like the all-time offensive greats like Mario, Wayne, Jagr etc... create offense regardless of who they play with. That's what makes them great. They always get their points somehow while elevating their linemates.

Crosby doesn't need Guenztel to finish Top scoring but Guentzel needs Crosby to score 40.

 

[cowboy82nd]

He's the greatest of all time

Said no one ever.

 

[TheGuiminator]

He did exactly that two years ago. He was the best player in the world that season while carrying 3rd liners and taking on a more defensive role.

Crosby, like the all-time offensive greats like Mario, Wayne, Jagr etc... create offense regardless of who they play with. That's what makes them great. They always get their points somehow while elevating their linemates.

Crosby doesn't need Guenztel to finish Top scoring but Guentzel needs Crosby to score 40.

1. Did Crosby score 100 points two years ago? He had 45 assists and it’s an anomaly when you look at Crosby’s career standards. Did that make him a least good playmaker? Of course not, but playing with 3rd liners will certainly limit your point production at one point. That said, Put a good finisher on Crosby’s line that season and he probably ends up with +100 points.

2. Like you said, «they create offense », but if your linemates can’t convert most of the plays, it’s gonna affect a playmaker’s stats to some extent

3. I agree, but having a good finisher helps Crosby’s production too. But at the same time, if Guentzel doesn’t have Crosby, he doesn’t have all those opportunities to score. So, They help each other

 

[Gary Nylund]

I've seen many well-reasoned "greatest OAT" lists by knowledgeable people and one thing is for certain: there is no consensus at all about spots 5-15, or thereabouts, and no one agrees about who is #5.

For this reason alone Crosby will probably have an argument by the time he's done.

Personally Ray Bourque is my #5, but I see him as low as mid-teens on some lists. The only thing we know for sure is that there is a firm top-4. After that there's about eight to a dozen guys all with a strong argument for #5.

Yup.

 

[daver]

1. Did Crosby score 100 points two years ago? He had 45 assists and it’s an anomaly when you look at Crosby’s career standards. Did that make him a least good playmaker? Of course not, but playing with 3rd liners will certainly limit your point production at one point. That said, Put a good finisher on Crosby’s line that season and he probably ends up with +100 points.

f***, is it not obvious to everyone that scoring was up this year? He had the 2nd best PPG in 16/17, marginally behind McDavid. This year he was 6th in PPG. He was not as productive.

You have provided zero evidence that his production would differ with different linemates because there is none. If he played with 3rd liners this year, there is no reason to think he doesn't hit 100 points. Great players get their points one way or another.

In any given year, Crosby has been an elite playmaker or goalscorer, elite on the PP or at ES. His numbers speak for themselves. That he has been elite while carrying players lower on his team's depth charts, which frees up talent to create team depth, while playing a 2-way role rather than an all out offensive one, adds value to those numbers.

 

[daver]

2. Like you said, «they create offense », but if your linemates can’t convert most of the plays, it’s gonna affect a playmaker’s stats to some extent

3. I agree, but having a good finisher helps Crosby’s production too. But at the same time, if Guentzel doesn’t have Crosby, he doesn’t have all those opportunities to score. So, They help each other

Look at Kurri and Gretzky for the perfect example of why this is not the case. Wayne was a 200 point player regardless of whether Kurri put up elite goal totals or even played on his line.

Crosby was a Top 5 offensive player this year, argubly higher, and a Top 3 player when his defensive game is considered.

 

[Red Dread]

Two Hart and Art Ross trophies seem low for 5th of all time.