Sheldon Keefe Discussion Thread

[WillyC]

Make Jason Spezza the interim coach.

 

[fahad203]

Quenneville?

Wasn't he part of the mess of Chicago? I doubt MLSE wants anything to do with him

 

[DarkKnight]

Trotz wants to get into management. I don't think he wants a coaching role
He'll want dual role of GM and Coach if anything. Which I can't see it happening

Seperation of duties.

Here’s the thing though, Keefe and Dubas are a package deal, he’s the perfect short term solution for both, with Shanny taking a more active role like the Raptors model.

Wasn't he part of the mess of Chicago? I doubt MLSE wants anything to do with him

There is some baggage there, but he will coach again.

 

[egd27]

Trotz wants to get into management. I don't think he wants a coaching role
He'll want dual role of GM and Coach if anything. Which I can't see it happening

Seperation of duties.

Take over behind the bench now and move him up at season's end.

If KD quits. so be it, there's something like 6 AGM's that can keep things afloat for the rest of the season.

Yes he’d definitely be an upgrade. Who knows if Trotz would even want to come here though. Aside from Trotz, is there anyone else?

They wouldn't do it because of the optics, but Quenville would also be a great choice.

 

[TMLAM34]

Quenneville?

That’s funny, I literally google searched about him earlier. Apparently he needs to be reinstated by the commissioner. But who knows if any team would bring him back being connected to that Chicago team. No matter how good of a coach he is.

 

[fahad203]

That’s funny, I literally google searched about him earlier. Apparently he needs to be reinstated by the commissioner. But who knows if any team would bring him back being connected to that Chicago team. No matter how good of a coach he is.

I can't see any team going through all that for a coach

There are not many experience coaches available as season as already started. You can't even pry anyone's assistant coach now

 

[TMLAM34]

I can't see any team going through all that for a coach

There are not many experience coaches available as season as already started. You can't even pry anyone's assistant coach now

Yeah I wish we jumped all over Cassidy when Boston fired him. It may come down to having to wait until the off-season for all these major shake ups.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Keefe is not a bad coach, but they aren't listening anymore. The message is stale.

 

[francis246]

To a certain extent I feel for him, like look at this:



He looks like he's said it 1000 times but they won't listen, like he's fed up. Can't really blame him, his job is on the line and the players keep repeating bad habits

It’s been the same since babcock. There is a character flaw. We’ve changed so many parts but the core is still the same. Ultimately, they will change things, someone will be moved this summer.

 

[fahad203]

Keefe is not a bad coach, but they aren't listening anymore. The message is stale.

I mean it's very difficult to say and being "bad' is rather relative
So what constitutes a bad coach though then?

I mean he did lose 3-1 series to bitter rival and a very average team along with losing to columbus playing 5 games at your own backyard (all games were at ACC)

He did lose to a zamboni driver

He did not win a single playoff series going 0-7 in closing games

all that in just 3 years

What takes other coaches 10-15 years to accomplish, Keefe did it in 3 years

Like most jobs, you don't have to be bad, you just don't have to be very good to lose your jobs at that level

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I mean it's very difficult to say and being "bad' is rather relative
So what constitutes a bad coach though then?

I mean he did lose 3-1 series to bitter rival and a very average team along with losing to columbus playing 5 games at your own backyard (all games were at ACC)

He did lose to a zamboni driver

He did not win a single playoff series going 0-7 in closing games

all that in just 3 years

What takes other coaches 10-15 years to accomplish, Keefe did it in 3 years

Like most jobs, you don't have to be bad, you just don't have to be very good to lose your jobs at that level

You are blaming him for things that I believe the players take more of a share of blame for.

I think Keefe has made decent strategic decisions with the rosters he's been given. I don't think he's killing this team from a strategic standpoint, but I do think he's lost the room and the inmates are running the asylum now.

Most of what you described falls on Kyle, goaltending, and the guys being paid 55% of the cap, all of whom played like average 2nd lines rather than franchise cornerstones.

I don't think you could plug Sutter in here and we'd look like Calgary - they have the right tools to play a Sutter game.

 

[DarkKnight]

Just watched his post game, he increasingly seems like a man without answers, exasperated and just emotional without much more to offer. I’d add, his body language and tone, he seems diminished to me, I bet the players sense it too. He’s just a warm body back there now, I really don’t think he matters whether we show up or not, it on auto pilot, the swearing coach just background.

 

[francis246]

Just watched his post game, he increasingly seems like a man without answers, exasperated and just emotional without much more to offer. I’d add, his body language and tone, he seems diminished to me, I bet the players sense it too. He’s just a warm body back there now, I really don’t think he matters whether we show up or not, it on auto pilot, the swearing coach just background.

I think Keefe gets more hate than he deserves. At what point will fans and management start holding players responsible? The players go out on the ice and they need to perform. They’ve had two coaches now, two pretty good ones.

Babcock was a shit human but he was a pretty good coach, Keefe is a good coach as well and has given the players everything they’ve wanted (free flow/ more offensive style of hockey, gave Matthews Marner, he loaded 1 PP and gives them almost 2 minutes every power play, he’s cautious of how he critiques them) the players have absolutely no more excuses left in the chamber. This falls completely on them.

 

[sxvnert]

Babcock started the season 9-10-4 before getting fired. Keefe is coming close to that.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Just watched his post game, he increasingly seems like a man without answers, exasperated and just emotional without much more to offer. I’d add, his body language and tone, he seems diminished to me, I bet the players sense it too. He’s just a warm body back there now, I really don’t think he matters whether we show up or not, it on auto pilot, the swearing coach just background.

The only strategy he has is playing his stars a shitload of minutes. Marner and Matthews are 1st and 9th in TOI/GP among forwards, despite them playing like shit. He doesn’t know how to get them going, he just knows how to throw them over the boards and hope it works out. We see it every playoffs when he gets desperate and now we’re seeing it in October…

 

[Mugzy97]

I think Keefe gets more hate than he deserves. At what point will fans and management start holding players responsible? The players go out on the ice and they need to perform. They’ve had two coaches now, two pretty good ones.

Babcock was a shit human but he was a pretty good coach, Keefe is a good coach as well and has given the players everything they’ve wanted (free flow/ more offensive style of hockey, gave Matthews Marner, he loaded 1 PP and gives them almost 2 minutes every power play, he’s cautious of how he critiques them) the players have absolutely no more excuses left in the chamber. This falls completely on them.

At the end of the day, Keefe was a rookie NHL coach when he came here. I’m not getting the feeling that he has the ability to strategically push this team over the edge, he just doesn’t have the pedigree or experience.

We've got a rookie bench boss with a Stanley cup calibre team IMO.

 

[blue stick]

Just watched his post game, he increasingly seems like a man without answers, exasperated and just emotional without much more to offer. I’d add, his body language and tone, he seems diminished to me, I bet the players sense it too. He’s just a warm body back there now, I really don’t think he matters whether we show up or not, it on auto pilot, the swearing coach just background.

I thought he was going to break down and start sobbing.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I think Keefe gets more hate than he deserves. At what point will fans and management start holding players responsible? The players go out on the ice and they need to perform. They’ve had two coaches now, two pretty good ones.

Babcock was a shit human but he was a pretty good coach, Keefe is a good coach as well and has given the players everything they’ve wanted (free flow/ more offensive style of hockey, gave Matthews Marner, he loaded 1 PP and gives them almost 2 minutes every power play, he’s cautious of how he critiques them) the players have absolutely no more excuses left in the chamber. This falls completely on them.

I agree with you regarding him being a good coach and the responsibility lies on the players. But for the love of god why would he start Kallgren after Samsonov had 3 days rest? Why in the name of all that is good and holy does he have this infatuation with Holl, putting him in the top 4? Why is Malgin even playing at all? Engvall should be on the 4th line, or in the press box. Why is Rielly still on PP1? Why does he have the defencemen, especially Holl, pinch behind the oppositions net? These are decisions that don't help his cause. I know some of this lies on Dubas, but it doesn't show good judgment.

 

[Jmo89]

The only strategy he has is playing his stars a shitload of minutes. Marner and Matthews are 1st and 9th in TOI/GP among forwards, despite them playing like shit. He doesn’t know how to get them going, he just knows how to throw them over the boards and hope it works out. We see it every playoffs when he gets desperate and now we’re seeing it in October…

Yep. Keefe is a good coach because he usually does what he's supposed to do with one of the top rosters in the league. Absolutely some of the failures fall on the players, but it's clear Keefe doesn't know how to push his best players beyond just playing them.

He also compounds the (lack of) killer instinct issue the roster has. Even if you want to say the handshake comment was taken out of context, he was already talking about a split before they played in Tampa.

He might end up being a good coach, but as @Mugzy97 said, he's a rookie coach who doesn't know how to get the best our of his team.

The roster/core has its warts, but a more experienced coach likely gets a better effort.

 

[francis246]

I agree with you regarding him being a good coach and the responsibility lies on the players. But for the love of god why would he start Kallgren after Samsonov had 3 days rest? Why in the name of all that is good and holy does he have this infatuation with Holl, putting him in the top 4? Why is Malgin even playing at all? Engvall should be on the 4th line, or in the press box. Why is Rielly still on PP1? Why does he have the defencemen, especially Holl, pinch behind the oppositions net? These are decisions that don't help his cause. I know some of this lies on Dubas, but it doesn't show good judgment.

I don't have those answers, honestly, I think Holl has more to do with management. Dubas absolutely shit the bed in protecting him over McCann. I think the playing of Holl is two fold. 1. You will not find a single coach who will dress 6 left handed dmen, it's just not going to happen. So by default being the only RHD available he is going to play.

2. Management wants him to play, they bet big on him and even if they want to trade him, they cannot have him sitting.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

We needed a shakeup this off season. Keefes Tampa bay handshake line fanboyism was a bit revealing. He’s more of a fan than a coach.

And here he is simping to 34 and 16.

Power Dynamics are headed towards Babcock levels.

Dubas usurped Babcocks control and the players knew they could walk all over him.

Keefe is even worse, Dubas backs him and he lost it by himself being a fanboy.

34 and 16 need a strong coach. And if that does nothing they need to be traded months ago.

Dubas worst thing to happen during our rebuild.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

To a certain extent I feel for him, like look at this:



He looks like he's said it 1000 times but they won't listen, like he's fed up. Can't really blame him, his job is on the line and the players keep repeating bad habits

I don't think he's a good coach but there are only so many ways you can say something. Another coach could relay it better but this core is rotten.

He looks as exacerbated as we are.

 

[The Masters]

I think Keefe maybe isnt that smart of a guy from his comments last year about the respect in hand shake line to walking back on his comments

 

[Dayjobdave]

It does seem that if the team doesn't turn this around really quickly he's going to get punted.

 

[Lemontree]

According to Dubas, a new water boy is going to change this team around!

Dubas better be concerned for his job...apparently you go from water boy to GM very quickly within the Leafs organization.