Shanahan Post Season Presser

[Arzak]

This goes one of two ways, either commit and that means winning the Cup in the next 3 seasons or try not ending with no assets and stars in 2025.

 

[Arzak]

Simmonds will be re-signed. For one day. He still owes us the Marner fight.

 

[sparxx87]

I agree, there were a bunch of times when the puck was loose in the paint and nobody could get to it, but, that was Simmonds specialty area. he should have at lest got a flyer for one shift vs montreal on the top line

Exactly. When Price is on his game he’ll stop every straight shot he can see. Requires a point blank perfect shot or screen/deflection/rebound to beat him.

What was the game plan, Sheldon?

 

[forecheck]

Nah - don’t tip your hand to the rest of the league that guys are getting shipped

You are also missing the point .. Anyways once a player is being shopped do you think it takes long for the rest of the league to find out ??? Or do you think its best to just deal with one team and do a deal in secret ??? ( See Hall for Larsen deal ) …. The point made was to portray to the fans that they are looking at all options available to fix this team , not the business as usual this is part of the process BS.

 

[Stephen]

This goes one of two ways, either commit and that means winning the Cup in the next 3 seasons or try not ending with no assets and stars in 2025.

I don’t see a doomsday where all those guys are running out of town. But if Marner hasn’t made big leaps in the next 3 years in big games, his reputation around the league will also gradually decline. You’re only the next Patrick Kane until people realize you’re the next Johnny Gaudreau.

 

[ToneDog]

Think so? You might be right. They said the same about Perry, though. I thought Simmonds was really good pre injury but never really found his game again. I’d take a flyer for a million or less.

We’ll see! I think someone gives him another year at minimum.

Has not scored in last 25 playoff games. Dumped by Philly, Nash, Buff and now was so-so with the Leafs. If you can't find anybody better, sure for $1m but I'd rather cut bait and go with a younger option. Brett Ritchie, Josh Leivo, Nosek ???

 

[Mess]

It’s sad to say but seeing some of management get the boot is gonna make me smile.
I think Shanny backed the wrong horse in Dubas over Lou and Babcock.
so we get Keefe, who was fine until you see his playoff performances and his AHL inexperience shows like a neon thong at nighttime.

Babcock lost with No D, with Dubas undermining him with speedy midgets and it was all BOSTON.

I believe Maple Leaf board of directors and ownership of Bell/Rogers might be thinking that same thing.

Lets recap shall we? .. The Leafs miss the playoffs 9 of 10 years and so MLSE hire Shanny to turn this around.. He immediately brings in Mike Babcock to bring experience and success, and then hire Lou Lam as his GM who has 3 Stanley Cups and already in the HHOF..

As a fortune .500 company this is the kind on veteran proven leadership and experience they trust. That faith was very quickly repaid because after inheriting a last overall team (and drafting franchise #1C Matthews) Lou Lam and Babs lead a +26 point improvement and put them into the playoffs the very next year, where they battle Washington hard with a team full of rookies. Last overall to playoffs is not something you see happen often after so much long-term struggling.

Now in year #3 GM and Coach return a 105 point regular season on 49 wins and both break 100 year old franchise best marks for both and finished #6 overall in the regular season and then battle Boston (112 points) to 7 games before bowing out in round #1.

Very strange timing to say the least to make a GM change with an organization on top to a young inexperience GM about to head into contract negotiations with the 3 Amigos which will be franchise defining. Who would you rather handle this from an ownership point of view a GM with 30 years experience and 100's of contracts, or a greenhorn GM with almost none going against season player agents? We're in this cap hell contract mess exactly because of that, and because Dubas got taken behind the woodshed particularly by Marner and his agent. IMO

Also If Shanny convinced MLSE that switching to Dubas was about getting the Leafs over the top, with new wave analytical expertise and into the 21 century, and past round #1 of the playoffs where it ended the past 2 years then this in his 3 years has been a complete bust.. Under Babcock as coach who he constantly undermined they lost to Boston again in 7.. Then Dubas who thought he knew better replaced Babcock with his pal Sheldon Keefe who has now made things even worse.

The inexperienced Keefe in the play-in round with the #3 offense lost to #3 lowest scoring team CBJ as heavy favourites even failed to make it to round #1 and final 16 after Torts schooled him shutting out the Leafs in 2 and almost 3 games and Keefe looked lost against the trap, and deer in the headlights. Then this year gifted a golden opportunity in a all CDN weak QofC Div with a guaranteed final 4 if he could just beat 6 CDN teams to get there... Now we just saw another epic embarrassing collapse up 3-1 in the series and then allowing a barely .500 hockey team Montreal that finished nearly -20 points below them in the standings, and only squeaked into the playoffs finishing #18 overall ranked, but because the North was so weak and then lost 3 straight games to bow out in round #1 again.

Shanny going from Lou Lam to Dubas produced worse results, and then Dubas going from Babcock to Keefe compounded the problem and made the end results even worse again.

Shanny tells the BOD, everything is fine and we're sticking to the Shanaplan, the core 4 and this management group.

 

[myleafs]

Honestly man, Would look so bad if he just went out there saying yeah were going to make major changes and trade this and that player.

But in reality....
With the flat cap.....
Moving out a contract like Marner is almost impossible.
Will 100% lose value on him and it will turn into a trade for the sake of trading.
Sometimes the best thing to do is continue forward.
Let the players play and hopefully their value will improve
I'm down for whatever changes it takes to get the job done but that doesnt mean I wanna just throw our players away for free and basically be the Bruins in the Joe Thornton trade where they got Nothing.

Going to be a long crappy offseason.
Only thing we can do is hold our heads high and not expect much.

I'm going to be taking a break from watching the Leafs for atleast a little bit.
Regular Season just feels like such a waste of time when all we are waiting on is to see if we can win a damn playoff series.

Moving Marners contract will not be next to impossible and I am confident the leafs would get some goodies coming back. His real money salary is just over 5 milly for the next 4 yrs.
Boston has traded Thornton, Seguin, a prime Lucic and are one of the elite teams in the league for a while now so to basically be the bruins as you put it doesnt seem like a bad thing to me.
So, hold our head high dont expect much but you are not going to watch....what fun.

 

[sparxx87]

Has not scored in last 25 playoff games. Dumped by Philly, Nash, Buff and now was so-so with the Leafs. If you can't find anybody better, sure for $1m but I'd rather cut bait and go with a younger option. Brett Ritchie, Josh Leivo, Nosek ???

Fair enough.

Not a Richie fan but wouldn’t mind Leivo. He has some skill and can play physical and nasty. Nosek could be good, too. Can play a little centre. Definitely like him over Engvall.

 

[myleafs]

Nah - I want to hear that they are analyzing all options to ensure they are better next season.... Not to defiantly give the fans the middle finger and try and sell us on its part of the process . That wont work in this market - to many smart hockey people who actually know what they are seeing.

It was simple really, just tell everyone that from top down you are going to look at everything, analyze everything and do everything you can to improve the team.... period.

 

[myleafs]

I think Simmonds is back. 1.0 for a physical 3rd or 4th liner. As you mentioned pre injury he was great and then never regained form

Didnt see any of that physicality and I was a Simmonds fan, not so much anymore...he is cooked.

 

[Amadeus]

Didnt see any of that physicality and I was a Simmonds fan, not so much anymore...he is cooked.

Yeah, I'd rather go elsewhere. I saw him do nothing in the playoffs. One and done in the offensive zone where the puck is lava for him.

I'd rather go elsewhere.

 

[mydnyte]

Exactly. When Price is on his game he’ll stop every straight shot he can see. Requires a point blank perfect shot or screen/deflection/rebound to beat him.

What was the game plan, Sheldon?

It made me sick to see Price in 'set' position and us keep shooting the puck into his glove, not even making him raise his arm to make the glove save.
if we added them all up, it has to be near 50.
Price is almost always in proper position, and those are wasted attempts, at least shoot blocker side and get a darn rebound

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Moving Marners contract will not be next to impossible and I am confident the leafs would get some goodies coming back. His real money salary is just over 5 milly for the next 4 yrs.
Boston has traded Thornton, Seguin, a prime Lucic and are one of the elite teams in the league for a while now so to basically be the bruins as you put it doesnt seem like a bad thing to me.
So, hold our head high dont expect much but you are not going to watch....what fun.

Did Brad Stuart, Wayne Primeau, and Marco Sturm have an impact on them being an elite team?
So again..... They got nothing for Thornton

 

[sparxx87]

It made me sick to see Price in 'set' position and us keep shooting the puck into his glove, not even making him raise his arm to make the glove save.
if we added them all up, it has to be near 50.
Price is almost always in proper position, and those are wasted attempts, at least shoot blocker side and get a darn rebound

Yeah. Needed more screens and deflections. Goals are hard to come by in the playoffs. When they don’t come clean you’ve gotta take them out the mud.

They didn’t have enough guys doing that. Needed to take better advantage of the top players by making Price battle more. Not enough traffic, too many easy stops for him.

Injured Hyman and Alex Galchenyuk don’t really fit the bill.

 

[Myopic]

I believe Maple Leaf board of directors and ownership of Bell/Rogers might be thinking that same thing.

Lets recap shall we? .. The Leafs miss the playoffs 9 of 10 years and so MLSE hire Shanny to turn this around.. He immediately brings in Mike Babcock to bring experience and success and then hire Lou Lam as his GM who has 3 Stanley Cups and already in the HHOF..

As a fortune .500 company this is the kind on veteran proven leadership and experience they trust. That faith was very quickly repaid because after inheriting a last overall team (and drafting franchise #1C Matthews) Lou Lam and Babs lead a +26 point improvement and put them into the playoffs the very next year, where the battle Washington hard with a team full of rookies. Last overall to playoffs is not something you see happen often after so much long-term struggling.

Now in year #3 GM and Coach return a 105 point regular season on 49 wins and both break 100 year old franchise best marks for both and finished #6 overall in the regular season and then battle Boston (112 points) to 7 games before bowing out in round #1.

Very strange timing to say the least to make a GM change with an organization on top to a young inexperience GM about to head into contract negotiations with the 3 Amigos which will be franchise defining. Who would you rather handle this from and ownership point of view and GM with 30 years experience and 100's of contracts or a greenhorn GM with almost none going against season player agents? We're in this cap hell contract mess exactly because of that, and because Dubas got taken behind the woodshed particularly by Marner and his agent. IMO

Also If Shanny convinced MLSE that switching to Dubas was about getting the Leafs over the top, with new wave analytical expertise and into the 21 century, and past round #1 of the playoffs where it ended the past 2 years then this in his 3 years has been a complete bust.. Under Babcock a coach he constantly underminded they lost to Boston again in 7.. Then Dubas who thought he new better replaced Babcock with his pal Sheldon Keefe has now made things even worse.

The inexperienced Keefe in the play-in round with the #3 offense lost to #3 lowest scoring team CBJ as heavy favourites even failed to make it to round #1 and final 16 after Torts schooled him shutting out the Leafs in 2 and almost 3 games and Keefe looked lost against the trap, and deer in the headlights. Then this year gifted a golden opportunity in a all CDN weak QofC Div with a guaranteed final 4 if he could just beat 6 CDN teams to get there... Now we just saw another epic embarrassing collapse up 3-1 in the series and then allowing a barley .500 hockey team Montreal that finished nearly -20 points below them in the standings, and only squeaked into the playoffs finishing #18 overall ranked, but because the North was so weak and lost 3 straight games to bow out in round #1 again.

Shanny going from Lou Lam to Dubas produced worse results, and then Dubas going from Babcock to Keefe compounded the problem and made the end results even worse again.

Shanny tells the BOD, everything is fine and we're sticking to the Shanaplan, the core 4 and this management.

Brilliant summation!

This needs to be stickied as a constant reminder.

It blew my mind that Lou was not resigned to manage the very difficult contract negotiations coming up for Marner, Matthews & Nylander. That decision to hire Dubas produced serious harm to the rebuild, and continues to hound this team today.

 

[mydnyte]

Yeah. Needed more screens and deflections. Goals are hard to come by in the playoffs. When they don’t come clean you’ve gotta take them out the mud.

They didn’t have enough guys doing that. Needed to take better advantage of the top players by making Price battle more. Not enough traffic, too many easy stops for him.

Injured Hyman and Alex Galchenyuk don’t really fit the bill.

they need the old Bossy mentality, if you can see the net, shoot the puck

 

[sparxx87]

they need the old Bossy mentality, if you can see the net, shoot the puck

Yeah. He was in their head by the end. They were trying to be too perfect.

 

[Stephen]

Did Brad Stuart, Wayne Primeau, and Marco Sturm have an impact on them being an elite team?
So again..... They got nothing for Thornton

The invisible return on that deal would have been the cap space to sign Marc Savard and Zdeno Chara. So that would be the other factor to consider even if the straight up Marner return might not look amazing.

 

[Trapper]

Fair enough.

Not a Richie fan but wouldn’t mind Leivo. He has some skill and can play physical and nasty. Nosek could be good, too. Can play a little centre. Definitely like him over Engvall.

If you aren’t going to address the core, the only thing left is to keep throwing **** at the wall and see what sticks.
Ultimately, it’s going to be up to the core though. Management doesn’t seem to have issue with that and unless some drastic core intensity happens, that is what will sink them.

 

[Stephen]

I believe Maple Leaf board of directors and ownership of Bell/Rogers might be thinking that same thing.

Lets recap shall we? .. The Leafs miss the playoffs 9 of 10 years and so MLSE hire Shanny to turn this around.. He immediately brings in Mike Babcock to bring experience and success and then hire Lou Lam as his GM who has 3 Stanley Cups and already in the HHOF..

As a fortune .500 company this is the kind on veteran proven leadership and experience they trust. That faith was very quickly repaid because after inheriting a last overall team (and drafting franchise #1C Matthews) Lou Lam and Babs lead a +26 point improvement and put them into the playoffs the very next year, where the battle Washington hard with a team full of rookies. Last overall to playoffs is not something you see happen often after so much long-term struggling.

Now in year #3 GM and Coach return a 105 point regular season on 49 wins and both break 100 year old franchise best marks for both and finished #6 overall in the regular season and then battle Boston (112 points) to 7 games before bowing out in round #1.

Very strange timing to say the least to make a GM change with an organization on top to a young inexperience GM about to head into contract negotiations with the 3 Amigos which will be franchise defining. Who would you rather handle this from and ownership point of view and GM with 30 years experience and 100's of contracts or a greenhorn GM with almost none going against season player agents? We're in this cap hell contract mess exactly because of that, and because Dubas got taken behind the woodshed particularly by Marner and his agent. IMO

Also If Shanny convinced MLSE that switching to Dubas was about getting the Leafs over the top, with new wave analytical expertise and into the 21 century, and past round #1 of the playoffs where it ended the past 2 years then this in his 3 years has been a complete bust.. Under Babcock a coach he constantly underminded they lost to Boston again in 7.. Then Dubas who thought he new better replaced Babcock with his pal Sheldon Keefe has now made things even worse.

The inexperienced Keefe in the play-in round with the #3 offense lost to #3 lowest scoring team CBJ as heavy favourites even failed to make it to round #1 and final 16 after Torts schooled him shutting out the Leafs in 2 and almost 3 games and Keefe looked lost against the trap, and deer in the headlights. Then this year gifted a golden opportunity in a all CDN weak QofC Div with a guaranteed final 4 if he could just beat 6 CDN teams to get there... Now we just saw another epic embarrassing collapse up 3-1 in the series and then allowing a barley .500 hockey team Montreal that finished nearly -20 points below them in the standings, and only squeaked into the playoffs finishing #18 overall ranked, but because the North was so weak and lost 3 straight games to bow out in round #1 again.

Shanny going from Lou Lam to Dubas produced worse results, and then Dubas going from Babcock to Keefe compounded the problem and made the end results even worse again.

Shanny tells the BOD, everything is fine and we're sticking to the Shanaplan, the core 4 and this management.

The other thing to consider here is that Bell Rogers run TSN and Sportsnet and their coverage of the Leafs management response has not been positive. So within that big crazy circus tent I’m sure the board has a good grasp of the running narrative and pulse of the fanbase.

I think the idea of a redemption tour on top of the redemption tour could be supported by the board at least for next season. But don’t think the doomsday clock hasn’t started on the Shanaplan. I think Shanny’s big slip up here was aligning himself to Dubas and the specific players as opposed to playing the role of the cut throat man upstairs who will leave no stone unturned no decision too big to get better. His unwavering support, while offering stability, has locked him into whatever happens next year.

 

[Alamo Leafer]

The only thing missing in the pressers was some soothing Enya classics.

Sounded like a retirement community sell job fcol.

Flake org from top to bottom folks.

 

[mydnyte]

Yeah. He was in their head by the end. They were trying to be too perfect.

they did that 'pretty' stuff all season long

 

[The Legend]

so listening to the fans, and old GM's means he deviated from his vision.... not a way to be successful if you dont trust your own vision.... should be replaced if that is true

I'd be fine with bringing in a GM who fully believes in skill over grit.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Exactly. When Price is on his game he’ll stop every straight shot he can see. Requires a point blank perfect shot or screen/deflection/rebound to beat him.

What was the game plan, Sheldon?

Something I realized about the whole coaching and management staff is that they REVEL in the fact that they don't adjust. By that I mean, they revel in the fact that they are patient. They feel being patient has so many past successes that it's just the right thing to do.

They won't adjust playing styles even if a far less talented team just counter punched them into the ground over 7 games. They will not admit that this puck possession "Total Hockey" style they play might not be the best style in the playoffs. I watched a few other games and man...I have yet to see another team play this rinky dink perimeter game and looping back and regrouping constantly. This style of play is a religion for them...they won't easily change it until they absolutely have to.

If you went through any teams series loss you could probably find some bad luck in there somewhere. So to say we lost JUST because of puck luck is astoundingly short sighted because literally anyone who loses could say the same thing. The big question in my mind is "Are we contributing to this bad puck luck by playing this style?"