Shanahan Post Season Presser

Stephen

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They have an amazing culture that every player buys into from the stars to the depth guys. Players like Pastrnak and Marchand are always in the corners taking hits and getting dirty to make plays. The depth guys buy in when they see their stars risking everything and it results in you having a great program that can take some blows like they have.

We don't have that, not close.

I think you have to have a management staff willing to give good players the boot if they don't fit in and build a trusted core of guys to say to incoming players "do you really want to be here. This is how it works."
 

theTTC

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The bruins have an identity and have had one forever and they stick with it and you don't fit the mold you are out no matter who you are...period. I'm still not sure what our identity is or is supposed to be. Soft, sloppy and perimeter driven?
Join a team that hits and fights, then you hit and fight (Taylor Hall in Boston, for example). Join a team that fly-bys and grins passively while getting rag-dolled, then that's what you do (Simmonds and Matthews in Toronto, for example).

I just wanted to hear Shanahan talk at this elephant in the room. But no.

What happened to that guy along the way, going from a violent psycho on the ice to practicing woke marshmallow team building?
 

leafsfan5

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I think you have to have a management staff willing to give good players the boot if they don't fit in and build a trusted core of guys to say to incoming players "do you really want to be here. This is how it works."
Yup, Boston's management has had some mess ups but their ability to decide to build a certain team and stick to it has allowed them to be successful for so long. It's the same thing we're seeing with the Avs right now, they have a certain style and acquire players who will fit that mold (e.g. getting Toews on the back end).

While I've liked the moves Dubas has made, specifically those on defense, he doesn't strike me as a person willing to cut off our core guys. His biggest flaw is that he's honestly too nice of a guy, we need someone willing to be a dick sometimes and put the boot down. Our culture has produced me first guys who want to cash out whenever possible. We're reportedly seeing it now with Hyman and can you blame him? He works his ass off and is watching his linemates make tens of millions doing fly-bys. I wouldn't be surprised if Mo asked for the moon next year either
 

centipede2233

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Yup, Boston's management has had some mess ups but their ability to decide to build a certain team and stick to it has allowed them to be successful for so long. It's the same thing we're seeing with the Avs right now, they have a certain style and acquire players who will fit that mold (e.g. getting Toews on the back end).

While I've liked the moves Dubas has made, specifically those on defense, he doesn't strike me as a person willing to cut off our core guys. His biggest flaw is that he's honestly too nice of a guy, we need someone willing to be a dick sometimes and put the boot down. Our culture has produced me first guys who want to cash out whenever possible. We're reportedly seeing it now with Hyman and can you blame him? He works his ass off and is watching his linemates make tens of millions doing fly-bys. I wouldn't be surprised if Mo asked for the moon next year either
As Brian Burke once said, his son asked him if he would make a good gm, Brian responds “no, your too nice”
 

Stigma

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While I've liked the moves Dubas has made, specifically those on defense, he doesn't strike me as a person willing to cut off our core guys. His biggest flaw is that he's honestly too nice of a guy, we need someone willing to be a dick sometimes and put the boot down. Our culture has produced me first guys who want to cash out whenever possible. We're reportedly seeing it now with Hyman and can you blame him? He works his ass off and is watching his linemates make tens of millions doing fly-bys. I wouldn't be surprised if Mo asked for the moon next year either
Absolutely. What's happening with the Leafs is a microsystem version of macrosystem realities. Even as a parent, if you're too permissive and too nice, there will be consequences. (just as there are consequences for being too authoritarian). Balance is key!

The GM job is not for everyone. I am a "nice guy" in real life and I would end up being a Dubas too. I fully admit. That said, with age comes self-awareness. Given that I know that about myself, I would take the Lou approach if I was GM. No relationship with the players. Just formal stuff. This would allow me to make the brutal moves, here and there, without the pain.
 

FraumBallard

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What you get is the chance to reconfigure the team to try and find success with some of the highest skilled players to be on the Leafs in recent memory. That to me seems like a potentially more logical option than blowing it up and hoping for the best.

You could flip your question around and ask in the grand scheme of things what advantage is there to start another rebuild this off-season vs next? The core will all still be under contract next off-season, ect Because once you start moving those guys out there's no guaranteed successful path ahead. Just look at a team like the Sabres, such in perpetual rebuild mode. Before I want the team to risk heading down that path I'd absolutely want them to exhaust the other means/options first.
Fair point.
Fire Wonder Boy.
 

ottomaddox

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Why haven't they fired Keefe yet?

If they can't fire him then I don't know what to think.

Perhaps Shanny/Duabs used up their last bullet, and now it's up to the board of directors...
 

RoadWarrior

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Join a team that hits and fights, then you hit and fight (Taylor Hall in Boston, for example). Join a team that fly-bys and grins passively while getting rag-dolled, then that's what you do (Simmonds and Matthews in Toronto, for example).

I just wanted to hear Shanahan talk at this elephant in the room. But no.

What happened to that guy along the way, going from a violent psycho on the ice to practicing woke marshmallow team building?

Shanny has low T. He's shopping at the same vegan grocery stores as Marner.
 
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RoadWarrior

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If this core 4 and this management team GM and Coach struggled against underdog Columbus and Montreal, then just wait until next year when its Boston and Tampa Bay in rounds #1 and #2 when the Leafs return to the Atlantic.

Not only will they need to prove it on their redemption tour, but the competition level is going from non playoff to serious and defending Cup champs.

Hope the Shanaplan is taking this into account, when they start swapping a few random deck chair depth pieces around making near league minimum and avoid those icebergs on their Titanic undertaking tour through the Atlantic. :)

I think everyone knows this version of the leafs would be destroyed by Boston or Tampa.

At this point the press conferences are really aimed at one person - Larry Tannenbaum. Because nobody else is buying it.

I'm sure they realize that they never should've signed Marner to that ridiculous contract, but admitting that publicly is a different story. The question is whether they've actually deluded themselves into believing that sports psychologists, protein shakes and weight training can turn mitch into a hockey player. If so then we're in for a rough ride because very few in the hockey world at this stage believe that Marner is a first line player come playoff time.

On Pat Quinn teams in the 1990's he would be good for maybe 50 points in a season - mostly on the PP. Basically a Nick Borschevsky. He just can't fight through traffic or take a hit. It's not just abut size either. Kerfoot was getting bulldozed out there but he'd bounce right back up and keep going. Mitch gets hit and slumps off to the bench. No fight. No heart.

I don't get the Keefe love from management either. He was obviously outcoached in both playoff series.

Mitch should've been playing with Simmonds and Spezza on a lower line and Matthews with Nylander. Ice time management and special teams were also a disaster.

The only reason why I can see Dubas keeping Keefe around is because he's like a loyal pet. But when some pets start soiling the furniture - it's time to find another pet.
 
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myleafs

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Join a team that hits and fights, then you hit and fight (Taylor Hall in Boston, for example). Join a team that fly-bys and grins passively while getting rag-dolled, then that's what you do (Simmonds and Matthews in Toronto, for example).

I just wanted to hear Shanahan talk at this elephant in the room. But no.

What happened to that guy along the way, going from a violent psycho on the ice to practicing woke marshmallow team building?
I was watching that game last night and thinking we are fk'd. There is not a chance in hell we can go toe to toe with those kind of teams at this point. If Shanny had built this team like he played I would be over the moon. It's just so weird how passive the leafs are from physicality to our pp to how we play in general and unfortunately for us I don't think our core has that abrasiveness or fight in them that is needed. This core needs to watch Youngblood.
 

RoadWarrior

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I was watching that game last night and thinking we are fk'd. There is not a chance in hell we can go toe to toe with those kind of teams at this point. If Shanny had built this team like he played I would be over the moon. It's just so weird how passive the leafs are from physicality to our pp to how we play in general and unfortunately for us I don't think our core has that abrasiveness or fight in them that is needed. This core needs to watch Youngblood.

That's hilarious. This woke bunch would be calling the police to have Rob Lowe arrested for being mean.
 

killer1980

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Like how all the players hung their heads and went from near tears to defiant during the presser. I didn't see one player being angry, angry with themselves and angry at every other player that didn't contribute. AM & MM were the worst followed closely by KD then Shanny. Keefe was as lost during the press conference as he was during the playoffs. He actually reminds me of Mike Pence just grateful to be in the position he is in.
 

justashadowof

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Aug 15, 2020
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I think you have to have a management staff willing to give good players the boot if they don't fit in and build a trusted core of guys to say to incoming players "do you really want to be here. This is how it works."

Country club hockey clubs always fail. It was a country club with that team Shanahan took over in 2014. He seemed serious about rooting it out at the time.

I also recall a full country club atmosphere had developed under Gregory/Ballard (yes Ballard) in the late 1970's. The contracts of the stars were essentially being negotiated directly with Ballard and hence they had a special untouchable status. The players had the audacity to think they had an input on who their coach was. Ballard flipped on the situation when the team started losing and thought some old school GM (Imlach) could fix it. The rebellion continued under Imlach and against his coaching hire and the team spiralled into a decade of suck.

Near the end of the country club atmosphere things can get really ugly. I don't think it's that bad with this team but I see the underpinning of this type of atmosphere.
 
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HolyCrap

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What’s sickening is the Habs are two wins away from being the North Division Champs. This sucks.
 
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HolyCrap

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4 years of first round exits and half assed efforts. But let's stay the course
They are happy just to say they made the playoffs. What’s funny is next season I’m betting they don’t even make the playoffs with no massive change to the team and staff. We will be competing for first overall before success in the playoffs. It’s been a disaster so far.
 

Mess

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4 years of first round exits and half assed efforts. But let's stay the course

Unless you're not counting the CBJ series play-in round, because if you count that then sadly it actually 5 years and counting.

Times flies when you're having this much fun. :)
 
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Racer88

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I was watching that game last night and thinking we are fk'd. There is not a chance in hell we can go toe to toe with those kind of teams at this point. If Shanny had built this team like he played I would be over the moon. It's just so weird how passive the leafs are from physicality to our pp to how we play in general and unfortunately for us I don't think our core has that abrasiveness or fight in them that is needed. This core needs to watch Youngblood.
It sure is depressing watching the good teams play. We will get slaughtered against them next year.
Some teams got better this year and we went backwards big time. So pathetic
 

HolyCrap

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Yup makes me despise Shanny, Dubas, Keefe; matthews and Marner event more
Same here. The Shannyplan was a fail. No point in dragging the pain out longer. It was a failed rebuild. Time to restart as there’s no point in being a playoff bubble team for the next few years.
 
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Dave92

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Every year the comparisons get more ridiculous. First it was the Blues being in last at New year's so the Leafs can still win the cup. Then the Lightning choked in the first round too so the Leafs can still win the cup.

I'm getting mild second hand embarrassment thinking about Shanny and Dubas having to attempt selling this core as contenders again. If the next season isn't going well at Christmas this management team needs to be put out of their misery.
 
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