Shanahan Post Season Presser

[CelticDruid]

"good" message by shanahan and dubas (evidently both staying LOL) to the rest of the world: " We won't change the core. We love our core." Keefe staying. Gotta play with killer instict. Wich we don't have LOL. But we still keeping all of our key players

To me, that's very poor. Not liking that. We need thugs, even mo thugs family. But some of our core players would need to be changed, to other great players. Period. We have proof now from so many years already.

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating" We've eaten it for years and the taste still stinks.

 

[sparxx87]

they did that 'pretty' stuff all season long

Yep... but couldn’t figure out why the power play wasn’t working.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Has not scored in last 25 playoff games. Dumped by Philly, Nash, Buff and now was so-so with the Leafs. If you can't find anybody better, sure for $1m but I'd rather cut bait and go with a younger option. Brett Ritchie, Josh Leivo, Nosek ???

I was actually shocked at how bad Simmonds was. Like...so shocked at his low skill level of skating and passing that I thought it would be impossible for a guy like him to have scored more than 10G in a season throughout his career. I thought he was a good net front greasy type of player...but we didn't see that too much after his injury. I would steer clear of guys like him and get someone who could play. Every time he and Jumbo were on the ice I held my breath...they were that bad.

 

[sparxx87]

Something I realized about the whole coaching and management staff is that they REVEL in the fact that they don't adjust. By that I mean, they revel in the fact that they are patient. They feel being patient has so many past successes that it's just the right thing to do.

They won't adjust playing styles even if a far less talented team just counter punched them into the ground over 7 games. They will not admit that this puck possession "Total Hockey" style they play might not be the best style in the playoffs. I watched a few other games and man...I have yet to see another team play this rinky dink perimeter game and looping back and regrouping constantly. This style of play is a religion for them...they won't easily change it until they absolutely have to.

If you went through any teams series loss you could probably find some bad luck in there somewhere. So to say we lost JUST because of puck luck is astoundingly short sighted because literally anyone who loses could say the same thing. The big question in my mind is "Are we contributing to this bad puck luck by playing this style?"

Preach.

I was never a Babcock fan but at least there was a method to most of his madness. With Keefe I’m at a loss for words. It’s great that Matthews and Marner get more minutes and more points, but what are they playing for, really?

 

[17 Clark]

Preach.

I was never a Babcock fan but at least there was a method to most of his madness. With Keefe I’m at a loss for words. It’s great that Matthews and Marner get more minutes and more points, but what are they playing for, really?

To get their paycheques play PS five running around in their underwear like spoiled entitled kids sad thing is the team Encouraging it

 

[rumman]

Think so? You might be right. They said the same about Perry, though. I thought Simmonds was really good pre injury but never really found his game again. I’d take a flyer for a million or less.

We’ll see! I think someone gives him another year at minimum.

I feel sorry for Simmons/Thorton and the like, they remind me of punch drunk boxers who can’t see their careers are over and they’re just embarrassing themselves.......

 

[rumman]

Nah - don’t tip your hand to the rest of the league that guys are getting shipped

Zero confidence that Shanahan is saying they stay but actually is going to trade any of them, I think he’s too stupid to see it isn’t working, won’t work in the future. The real question is how stupid is the MLSE board, will they buy Shanahan’s tripe again next year when the results are the same? I thought professional sports was a results oriented business? Guess not in Hogtown.........

 

[rumman]

I think Simmonds is back. 1.0 for a physical 3rd or 4th liner. As you mentioned pre injury he was great and then never regained form

That’s the problem, he had a year off to heal up and first time he get injured he’s done, too many miles........

 

[RoadWarrior]

Zero confidence that Shanahan is saying they stay but actually is going to trade any of them, I think he’s too stupid to see it isn’t working, won’t work in the future. The real question is how stupid is the MLSE board, will they buy Shanahan’s tripe again next year when the results are the same? I thought professional sports was a results oriented business? Guess not in Hogtown.........

I'm afraid that Shanahan and Dubas have basically hitched their wagon to Marner and Matthews and will die on that hill.

Now it's up to Larry Tannenbaum to make a move.... god help us.

It's truly a sad state of affairs that in order to move out 12% of the cap they might have to fire the entire management team. Unbelievable.

 

[rumman]

Has not scored in last 25 playoff games. Dumped by Philly, Nash, Buff and now was so-so with the Leafs. If you can't find anybody better, sure for $1m but I'd rather cut bait and go with a younger option. Brett Ritchie, Josh Leivo, Nosek ???

Leafs could go a long way to solving their problems by trading 2 of the 4. Get 2 power forwards at the expense of 2 of Dubas’ shiny toys. Probably get other assets thrown into the deal. Of course you’d need a GM who know more about hockey than one dimensional Dubas......

 

[kevsh]

Remember when Maurice benched Schiefele and pulled Hellebuyck a couple of weeks before the playoffs? The team was losing badly and it looked like a bad move: Angering your top player and star goalie. But when the playoffs started they rolled over an Oilers team in a pretty significant upset.

Got me thinking about when/if Keefe has ever given some "tough love" to his players? I don't recall any. But just maybe that's what is needed.

Stop the coddling these guys and make it clear at the start of training camp that if any player is mailing it in - not fighting for pucks, half-heartedly poke checking an opposing player, etc. - they'll be watching the rest of the game from the bench.

If this team still hasn't developed that killer instinct on their own and Dubas made it clear no major moves are likely coming, then maybe it needs to be forced on them? Play with intensity or don't play at all.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Remember when Maurice benched Schiefele and pulled Hellebuyck a couple of weeks before the playoffs? The team was losing badly and it looked like a bad move: Angering your top player and star goalie. But when the playoffs started they rolled over an Oilers team in a pretty significant upset.

Got me thinking about when/if Keefe has ever given some "tough love" to his players? I don't recall any. But just maybe that's what is needed.

Stop the coddling these guys and make it clear at the start of training camp that if any player is mailing it in - not fighting for pucks, half-heartedly poke checking an opposing player, etc. - they'll be watching the rest of the game from the bench.

If this team still hasn't developed that killer instinct on their own and Dubas made it clear no major moves are likely coming, then maybe it needs to be forced on them? Play with intensity or don't play at all.

I'm not convinced that Keefe even has the authority to bench key players. My sense is that Dubas is running just about all day to day operations That might even include lineup decisions.

Keefe is basically his errand boy.

In other words the leafs don't even have a real coach and they desperately need one.

If they were smart they'd hire Gallant this summer.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Something I realized about the whole coaching and management staff is that they REVEL in the fact that they don't adjust. By that I mean, they revel in the fact that they are patient. They feel being patient has so many past successes that it's just the right thing to do.

They won't adjust playing styles even if a far less talented team just counter punched them into the ground over 7 games. They will not admit that this puck possession "Total Hockey" style they play might not be the best style in the playoffs. I watched a few other games and man...I have yet to see another team play this rinky dink perimeter game and looping back and regrouping constantly. This style of play is a religion for them...they won't easily change it until they absolutely have to.

If you went through any teams series loss you could probably find some bad luck in there somewhere. So to say we lost JUST because of puck luck is astoundingly short sighted because literally anyone who loses could say the same thing. The big question in my mind is "Are we contributing to this bad puck luck by playing this style?"

B-b-but they were going to force the game to change!

 

[cupcrazyman]

He said Keefe is an excellent coach who made lots of adjustments. I’m done lmao. Relocate the franchise

He adjusted his tie a couple of times.

 

[mydnyte]

Remember when Maurice benched Schiefele and pulled Hellebuyck a couple of weeks before the playoffs? The team was losing badly and it looked like a bad move: Angering your top player and star goalie. But when the playoffs started they rolled over an Oilers team in a pretty significant upset.

Got me thinking about when/if Keefe has ever given some "tough love" to his players? I don't recall any. But just maybe that's what is needed.

Stop the coddling these guys and make it clear at the start of training camp that if any player is mailing it in - not fighting for pucks, half-heartedly poke checking an opposing player, etc. - they'll be watching the rest of the game from the bench.

If this team still hasn't developed that killer instinct on their own and Dubas made it clear no major moves are likely coming, then maybe it needs to be forced on them? Play with intensity or don't play at all.

he punished them by putting Hyman on the top line, and Thornton on the top PP
...death by 1000 cuts

 

[Bluelines]

How can they afford said “dirty scorers?”

If Andersen does not come back that is 5 million in extra cap to spend elsewhere if Kerfoot is picked up, assuming Seattle picks him, that is another 3 million. Leafs have $65 mil tied up next year (minus Kerfoot) with $81.5 cap limit. with 5 forwards, 1 dman and 1 goalie to sign. There is always the trade route where one trade opens up cap and /or adds players.

 

[Clark4Ever]

He said Keefe is an excellent coach who made lots of adjustments. I’m done lmao. Relocate the franchise

Keefe was an excellent coach that made plenty of effective adjustments during the regular season.

I don't know what happened to him during the playoffs.

 

[centipede2233]

Something tells me things are going to get worse, and worse I mean miss the playoffs altogether next year in the standard divisions. I’m on the titanic, I see an iceberg straight ahead, dubas and shanahan see open water

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

B-b-but they were going to force the game to change!

I know you're being funny with the quip...but I actually in my heart of hearts believe that is what they really think. And...its sad. I have been in business for 30yrs and I have learned a lot of tough lessons by my failures. The reason I became successful in business was because I learned the error of my ways and adjusted. If you get married to an idea and that idea has had a few chances and still fails...maybe its the idea? And by sticking to it..you are not showing patience...you are showing a stiff necked view that is going to cost you in the long run.

All Duby has to say if he trades Marner is that when they signed his deal..it was thought to be a better value as it aged and the cap went up. Things have now changed and we had to re-think our plan of 4 players taking up so much cap room. You can't trade your best player (AM)..You can't trade JT (NMC) and you can't trade Willy because his deal is a bargain...so Mitchy is the guy who goes...nothing personal...it's nobody's fault per se. If Mitch said its a business when he strong armed Duby into paying almost AM money...then its a business when that deal happens to be the reason he gets traded...its business...nothing personal bud...cya

 

[Trapper]

Keefe was an excellent coach that made plenty of effective adjustments during the regular season.

I don't know what happened to him during the playoffs.

The same things that happen to our core:
This isn’t the regular season.
And if you don’t get it, it gets you.

 

[RoadWarrior]

I believe Maple Leaf board of directors and ownership of Bell/Rogers might be thinking that same thing.

Lets recap shall we? .. The Leafs miss the playoffs 9 of 10 years and so MLSE hire Shanny to turn this around.. He immediately brings in Mike Babcock to bring experience and success and then hire Lou Lam as his GM who has 3 Stanley Cups and already in the HHOF..

As a fortune .500 company this is the kind on veteran proven leadership and experience they trust. That faith was very quickly repaid because after inheriting a last overall team (and drafting franchise #1C Matthews) Lou Lam and Babs lead a +26 point improvement and put them into the playoffs the very next year, where the battle Washington hard with a team full of rookies. Last overall to playoffs is not something you see happen often after so much long-term struggling.

Now in year #3 GM and Coach return a 105 point regular season on 49 wins and both break 100 year old franchise best marks for both and finished #6 overall in the regular season and then battle Boston (112 points) to 7 games before bowing out in round #1.

Very strange timing to say the least to make a GM change with an organization on top to a young inexperience GM about to head into contract negotiations with the 3 Amigos which will be franchise defining. Who would you rather handle this from and ownership point of view and GM with 30 years experience and 100's of contracts or a greenhorn GM with almost none going against season player agents? We're in this cap hell contract mess exactly because of that, and because Dubas got taken behind the woodshed particularly by Marner and his agent. IMO

Also If Shanny convinced MLSE that switching to Dubas was about getting the Leafs over the top, with new wave analytical expertise and into the 21 century, and past round #1 of the playoffs where it ended the past 2 years then this in his 3 years has been a complete bust.. Under Babcock a coach he constantly underminded they lost to Boston again in 7.. Then Dubas who thought he new better replaced Babcock with his pal Sheldon Keefe has now made things even worse.

The inexperienced Keefe in the play-in round with the #3 offense lost to #3 lowest scoring team CBJ as heavy favourites even failed to make it to round #1 and final 16 after Torts schooled him shutting out the Leafs in 2 and almost 3 games and Keefe looked lost against the trap, and deer in the headlights. Then this year gifted a golden opportunity in a all CDN weak QofC Div with a guaranteed final 4 if he could just beat 6 CDN teams to get there... Now we just saw another epic embarrassing collapse up 3-1 in the series and then allowing a barley .500 hockey team Montreal that finished nearly -20 points below them in the standings, and only squeaked into the playoffs finishing #18 overall ranked, but because the North was so weak and lost 3 straight games to bow out in round #1 again.

Shanny going from Lou Lam to Dubas produced worse results, and then Dubas going from Babcock to Keefe compounded the problem and made the end results even worse again.

Shanny tells the BOD, everything is fine and we're sticking to the Shanaplan, the core 4 and this management.

Good summation of the important low lights over the past 6 years. In the end like with other modern pro sports the key role of the GM is cap management and they took a huge gamble the cap would increase but it didn't. Other teams like Boston, Carolina didn't take that gamble and now their payroll structure is paying off for them by allowing them to add more depth behind the stars.

The Keefe hiring was pure cronyism. Hiring an inexperienced coach for a supposedly contending team is just asinine.

Shanahan and Dubas are basically like conjoined twins, joined at the hip and going down with the ship.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Keefe was an excellent coach that made plenty of effective adjustments during the regular season.

I don't know what happened to him during the playoffs.

Yeah don't get it either. It was like Babcock playing Marleau with Jumboand not taking Mitch off the PP after it being a disaster for some time, and not one pp goal for Mitch all season?! Willy playing like the player we hoped he could be gets 17 min.?!
Makes one wonder what promises were made

 

[RoadWarrior]

Keefe was an excellent coach that made plenty of effective adjustments during the regular season.

I don't know what happened to him during the playoffs.

My guess is that Matthews, Marner and Dubas vetoed those kinds of decisions. He doesn't have the authority. That's a problem.

 

[Clark4Ever]

My guess is that Matthews, Marner and Dubas vetoed those kinds of decisions. He doesn't have the authority. That's a problem.

I really hope that is not the case.

 

[myleafs]

Did Brad Stuart, Wayne Primeau, and Marco Sturm have an impact on them being an elite team?
So again..... They got nothing for Thornton

Maybe just moving on from him was the point. They didnt see themselves winning with him or Seguin or Lucic. I still think Leafs get quite a bit for Marner if they go that route.