Shanahan Post Season Presser

[ShaneFalco]

11 million dollar players who have to be taught how to play

 

[Bluelines]

11 million dollar players who have to be taught how to play

Even Gretzky had a coach.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Its hard for me to believe the audacity for Shanahan to sit their and defiantly say that there will be NO CHANGES!

Is it not on management to do everything it takes to improve the team in any way to achieve the Prize? This would include leaving no rock unturned and which would include changing the core players. who have proven they cant perform when it matters most.

If I am running this team ( Board of Directors ) …. This would be the end of Mr Shanahan and whoever comes in can decide what's next for the GM-Coach - Players etc.

Honestly man, Would look so bad if he just went out there saying yeah were going to make major changes and trade this and that player.

But in reality....
With the flat cap.....
Moving out a contract like Marner is almost impossible.
Will 100% lose value on him and it will turn into a trade for the sake of trading.
Sometimes the best thing to do is continue forward.
Let the players play and hopefully their value will improve
I'm down for whatever changes it takes to get the job done but that doesnt mean I wanna just throw our players away for free and basically be the Bruins in the Joe Thornton trade where they got Nothing.

Going to be a long crappy offseason.
Only thing we can do is hold our heads high and not expect much.

I'm going to be taking a break from watching the Leafs for atleast a little bit.
Regular Season just feels like such a waste of time when all we are waiting on is to see if we can win a damn playoff series.

 

[forecheck]

Honestly man, Would look so bad if he just went out there saying yeah were going to make major changes and trade this and that player.

But in reality....
With the flat cap.....
Moving out a contract like Marner is almost impossible.
Will 100% lose value on him and it will turn into a trade for the sake of trading.
Sometimes the best thing to do is continue forward.
Let the players play and hopefully their value will improve
I'm down for whatever changes it takes to get the job done but that doesnt mean I wanna just throw our players away for free and basically be the Bruins in the Joe Thornton trade where they got Nothing.

Going to be a long crappy offseason.
Only thing we can do is hold our heads high and not expect much.

I'm going to be taking a break from watching the Leafs for atleast a little bit.
Regular Season just feels like such a waste of time when all we are waiting on is to see if we can win a damn playoff series.

Nah - I want to hear that they are analyzing all options to ensure they are better next season.... Not to defiantly give the fans the middle finger and try and sell us on its part of the process . That wont work in this market - to many smart hockey people who actually know what they are seeing.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Dubas and Shanny have built a culture of losing. Where losing is ok because "the talent is there". Where heart and grit and effort can be instilled over time. Where filling out the rest of the roster with bargain players who will be the leaders and crashers and bangers to teach the core, is a good strategy. We'll get 'em next year!

 

[Trapper]

Dubas and Shanny have built a culture of losing. Where losing is ok because "the talent is there". Where heart and grit and effort can be instilled over time. Where filling out the rest of the roster with bargain players who will be the leaders and crashers and bangers to teach the core, is a good strategy. We'll get 'em next year!

Talent isn’t enough.
I find it ironic we’ve had both Marleau and Thornton come through this team because they are a perfect example of you aren’t guaranteed to win because “skill”.

 

[mydnyte]

Baby steps. Let's just win a single round while the cap is in effect. Dubas and his fan club can't even give us that.

Dubas gave us the players to go deep, the coach completely mismanaged them (even playing Thornton in the playoffs was a mistake, forget on pp#1) and the Forwards didnt perform (save Spezza/Kerfoot/Nylander) ...defense, except for Sandin getting outmuscled and costing us the series, but, thats a coach's decision blame as much as the player's inexperience

 

[mydnyte]

I think you have to get more dirty scorers, guys that thrive in the slot and crease, guys who crash the crease and make horrible for defencmen and goalies. We had 2 guys in Hyman and Foligno, that do that job but clearly they were not close to being 100%. We need to get smarter in the way we teach our skilled players how to play. They had a great example on yesterdays Bos vs NYI game, how when Bos is on a 3 on 2, the middle guy goes to the net, the puck carrier picks up the winger and cross crease pass. When the middle guy goes to the net he usually brings both defenders to the net, which in turn creates chaos and screens the goalie. I get to see a lot of Boston content because of where I live, every major network for me is a Boston feed, including NESN. I can confidently say they have been using this play for at least 4 years, probably more. I remember one Leaf game this year , how Toronto did a similar thing and the announcer were waxing poetically about wow what a smart play, and I was thinking J.C. Boston does that at least 5 times a game for the last 4 years. there was nothing special about it.

It's case of having a team that is a Swiss Army Knife, they are comfortable in any situation, I think the thought of having vets in the bottom six made sense but they may want to be a bit more selective in thinking about what that vet bring son ice, he needs to bring more than them old timey stories, about back in my day...

Foligno's scoring days are behind him, and Hyman is not a good in the crease player. he gets in the way of our shots, and cant find the puck in his feet. Simmonds was supposed to be that guy, but, after he got hurt, he never got back on track.
They should try to teach Engvall to be a net front presence with his size but, again, his reaction speed in close may not be good enough. our only player that could really do it well, shouldnt (Matthews) because we need to protect him from the beating he'd take in the crease. Thats why Perry was a much better pickup than Thornton, Perry would have been a much better option than Thornton.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Nah - I want to hear that they are analyzing all options to ensure they are better next season.... Not to defiantly give the fans the middle finger and try and sell us on its part of the process . That wont work in this market - to many smart hockey people who actually know what they are seeing.

Your not seeing the bigger picture here my friend.
You cant just piss off all your players, Why would anyone want to come here if the management will just bash their players.
I know your not happy as a fan but it's a business and that's a poor business move.
You don't just go out and openly devalue your players.
We honestly don't need to know everything little detail.

 

[17 Clark]

11 million dollar players who have to be taught how to play

Judging by the amount of people that are trying to allow mariner off on this one he must have his whole family writing on these boards obviously they don’t respect the fans and they keep trying to replace the Bottom line players so they have something to deflect away from the stars don’t blame somebody else you might hurt their feelings I thought this was a show me league not I look for excuses and keep continue doing the same The definition of stupid is doing something repetitively coming out with the same result and continuing on doing it

 

[17 Clark]

11 million dollar players who have to be taught how to play

What sad is the lack of accountability I’ve heard everything from it’s just a mindset and I believe his father is all over those boards trying to justify something the Fan with a brain shouldn’t be buying

 

[forecheck]

Your not seeing the bigger picture here my friend.
You cant just piss off all your players, Why would anyone want to come here if the management will just bash their players.
I know your not happy as a fan but it's a business and that's a poor business move.
You don't just go out and openly devalue your players.
We honestly don't need to know everything little detail.

Not sure where I said "bash or devalue the players" ???? I am fully aware of the hockey business " My Friend " and if the highly paid athletes don't like the fact that changes may or could occur then to bad.... At the end of the day these Core players held the team hostage for huge dough ( or the Rookie GM I should say ) … and if they don't like being held accountable then to bad … I think its the attitude of Management to coddle these players is a big part of the problem.

 

[rumman]

Its hard for me to believe the audacity for Shanahan to sit their and defiantly say that there will be NO CHANGES!

Is it not on management to do everything it takes to improve the team in any way to achieve the Prize? This would include leaving no rock unturned and which would include changing the core players. who have proven they cant perform when it matters most.

If I am running this team ( Board of Directors ) …. This would be the end of Mr Shanahan and whoever comes in can decide what's next for the GM-Coach - Players etc.

Shanahan goes because he hired and backed boy wonder, but Dubas goes because he created this mess, it’s all on him, end of story.......

 

[rumman]

I think you have to get more dirty scorers, guys that thrive in the slot and crease, guys who crash the crease and make horrible for defencmen and goalies. We had 2 guys in Hyman and Foligno, that do that job but clearly they were not close to being 100%. We need to get smarter in the way we teach our skilled players how to play. They had a great example on yesterdays Bos vs NYI game, how when Bos is on a 3 on 2, the middle guy goes to the net, the puck carrier picks up the winger and cross crease pass. When the middle guy goes to the net he usually brings both defenders to the net, which in turn creates chaos and screens the goalie. I get to see a lot of Boston content because of where I live, every major network for me is a Boston feed, including NESN. I can confidently say they have been using this play for at least 4 years, probably more. I remember one Leaf game this year , how Toronto did a similar thing and the announcer were waxing poetically about wow what a smart play, and I was thinking J.C. Boston does that at least 5 times a game for the last 4 years. there was nothing special about it.

It's case of having a team that is a Swiss Army Knife, they are comfortable in any situation, I think the thought of having vets in the bottom six made sense but they may want to be a bit more selective in thinking about what that vet bring son ice, he needs to bring more than them old timey stories, about back in my day...

How can they afford said “dirty scorers?”

 

[mydnyte]

How can they afford said “dirty scorers?”

Perry was 750k and not many dirtier
can take a flyer on Ritchie, or Bobby Ryan, cap min ...just a big body that may have half decent hands in the slot or at least some toughness.
there may be some others that may be available pretty cheap next year because of age/flat cap ... Zajac, Sutter, Bjugstad, or even Bozak as a 4th line C as a flash from the past ...though a Bozak - Spezza line is a little scary

 

[socko]

Come on Shanny we need something new for next year. How about a 3rd jersey of a guy that kind of looks like Marner flipping the puck into the stands for a delay of game penalty?

 

[sparxx87]

Foligno's scoring days are behind him, and Hyman is not a good in the crease player. he gets in the way of our shots, and cant find the puck in his feet. Simmonds was supposed to be that guy, but, after he got hurt, he never got back on track.
They should try to teach Engvall to be a net front presence with his size but, again, his reaction speed in close may not be good enough. our only player that could really do it well, shouldnt (Matthews) because we need to protect him from the beating he'd take in the crease. Thats why Perry was a much better pickup than Thornton, Perry would have been a much better option than Thornton.

I was disappointed they didn’t give Simmonds time in the top 6. Especially when they weren’t scoring. He doesn’t have much offensive opportunity with Kerfoot or Engvall as his centre. Feel like he could have been good for a greasy goal or two on a deflection or rebound.

It’s hard to believe there’s a coach that can be more frustrating with his line combinations than Mike Babcock but Keefe s

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Not sure where I said "bash or devalue the players" ???? I am fully aware of the hockey business " My Friend " and if the highly paid athletes don't like the fact that changes may or could occur then to bad.... At the end of the day these Core players held the team hostage for huge dough ( or the Rookie GM I should say ) … and if they don't like being held accountable then to bad … I think its the attitude of Management to coddle these players is a big part of the problem.

You didnt say that I understand but if Shanny goes on and says We're going to make major changes and trade everyone on the team.

Now suddenly the league knows your trying to move on from said player.
You never go out and devalue your players like that or the return will only get worse.
You have to basically say they are good and we're perfectly fine with keeping our players through the tough times and quietly shop them if that is the plan.

Players should be held accountable but that doesnt mean go tell the media all your plans.

Good way to devalue players like I already said.

I mean whats the point is saying what you want them to? So you can just know for sure that there will be changes?

Patience is key.

 

[ToneDog]

I was disappointed they didn’t give Simmonds an opportunity in the top 6. He doesn’t have much offensive opportunity with Kerfoot or Engvall as his centre.

Simmonds is done. Use the money for a younger more useful player.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Simmonds is done. Use the money for a younger more useful player.

Yup and didn't really add anything in the playoffs at all

 

[sparxx87]

Simmonds is done. Use the money for a younger more useful player.

Think so? You might be right. They said the same about Perry, though. I thought Simmonds was really good pre injury but never really found his game again. I’d take a flyer for a million or less.

We’ll see! I think someone gives him another year at minimum.

 

[Stonehands1990]

Nah - I want to hear that they are analyzing all options to ensure they are better next season.... Not to defiantly give the fans the middle finger and try and sell us on its part of the process . That wont work in this market - to many smart hockey people who actually know what they are seeing.

Nah - don’t tip your hand to the rest of the league that guys are getting shipped

 

[Stonehands1990]

Think so? You might be right. They said the same about Perry, though. I thought Simmonds was really good pre injury but never really found his game again. I’d take a flyer for a million or less.

We’ll see! I think someone gives him another year at minimum.

I think Simmonds is back. 1.0 for a physical 3rd or 4th liner. As you mentioned pre injury he was great and then never regained form

 

[Blanche Blanche]

How can salaries/AAV be irrelevant when were talking Cup competitiveness and Leafs high spending problem?

This is what it really looks like TB top 4 vs Leafs top 4 and this years playoff stats & Goalie.

TB
Kucherov....8 games 3-9-12 points.
Hedman ....8 games 0-10-10 points
Stamkos.... 8 games 3-6-9 points
Point............ 8 games 5-2-7 points

Total Cap = $32.6 mil ..... Total Points = 11 goals 27 assists 38 points
+ Goalie Vasilievski @ $9.5 mil
Total Cap (Top 4 players + 1 G) = $42.15 mil

VS

Leafs
Nylander ...... 7 games 5-3-8 points
Matthews .....7 games 1-4-5 points
Marner .......... 7 games 0-4-4 points
Tavares ..........1 game 0-0-0 points (injured)

Total Cap = $ 40.5 mil .. Total Points = 6 goals 11 assists 17 points
+ Goalie Jack Campbell @ 1.65 mil
Total Cap (Top 4 players + 1 G) = $42.15 mil

When TB and Leafs are in the same Division next year again and have to play each other head to head these Cap hits wont change so they're not irrelevant for either team, and I guarantee you Shanahan's "killer instinct" all that missing ain't going to fix that either.

TB has a Vezina Goalie + Norris Dman and 3 elite scoring forwards for the same cap usage as Leafs 4 with Campbell.. If this were a playoff series I know were I would put my safe money bet.

PS. I'm sure Shanny, Dubas and Keefe are hoping the Leafs don't have to face these TB Lightning in round #1 to prove their cap spending top 4 Forward point next year, or I think they will be all fired shortly after this series ends.

It’s sad to say but seeing some of management get the boot is gonna make me smile.
I think Shanny backed the wrong horse in Dubas over Lou and Babcock.
so we get Keefe, who was fine until you see his playoff performances and his AHL inexperience shows like a neon thong at nighttime.

Babcock lost with No D, with Dubas undermining him with speedy midgets and it was all BOSTON.

keefe couldn’t get us past Jackets and HABS both teams lack depth and on a retool.

If they were all fired I’d have more hope.
At least Keefe for Torts.

Storing my Leaf gear away for good next season. Will burn Marner Jerseys if given the chance

 

[mydnyte]

I was disappointed they didn’t give Simmonds time in the top 6. Especially when they weren’t scoring. He doesn’t have much offensive opportunity with Kerfoot or Engvall as his centre. Feel like he could have been good for a greasy goal or two on a deflection or rebound.

It’s hard to believe there’s a coach that can be more frustrating with his line combinations than Mike Babcock but Keefe s

I agree, there were a bunch of times when the puck was loose in the paint and nobody could get to it, but, that was Simmonds specialty area. he should have at lest got a flyer for one shift vs montreal on the top line