Shanahan Post Season Presser

[mydnyte]

Would a couple of playoff round wins be considered substantial? Asking for a friend.

if they dont win the cup, this same banter just starts with as much disappointment or even more

 

[hamzarocks]

if they dont win the cup, this same banter just starts with as much disappointment or even more

False that's just straight up wrong. If we had been making the ECSF and ECF the past two years people are exictied and have faith that the core players can win us games come spring and the problem is with the depth and support.

Losing the past 3 years in the 1st round has most reasonable people correctly questioning if this core of players can win

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yea it's either of those two. Gave the benefit to Tampa as they won the cup last year and look dominant right now

I dunno, COL looks just as dominant, if not more so. Anyhow I hope that's what we get, will be interesting to see who the bookies have as the favourites. Whoever it is it won't be by much, should be a pretty even matchup. Could be the best final we've had in a very long time!

 

[mydnyte]

How can salaries/AAV be irrelevant when were talking Cup competitiveness and Leafs high spending problem?

This is what it really looks like TB top 4 vs Leafs top 4 and this years playoff stats & Goalie.

TB
Kucherov....8 games 3-9-12 points.
Hedman ....8 games 0-10-10 points
Stamkos.... 8 games 3-6-9 points
Point............ 8 games 5-2-7 points

Total Cap = $32.6 mil ..... Total Points = 11 goals 27 assists 38 points
+ Goalie Vasilievski @ $9.5 mil
Total Cap (Top 4 players + 1 G) = $42.15 mil

VS

Leafs
Nylander ...... 7 games 5-3-8 points
Matthews .....7 games 1-4-5 points
Marner .......... 7 games 0-4-4 points
Tavares ..........1 game 0-0-0 points (injured)

Total Cap = $ 40.5 mil .. Total Points = 6 goals 11 assists 17 points
+ Goalie Jack Campbell @ 1.65 mil
Total Cap (Top 4 players + 1 G) = $42.15 mil

When TB and Leafs are in the same Division next year again and have to play each other head to head these Cap hits wont change so they're not irrelevant for either team, and I guarantee you Shanahan's "killer instinct" all that missing ain't going to fix that either.

TB has a Vezina Goalie + Norris Dman and 3 elite scoring forwards for the same cap usage as Leafs 4 with Campbell.. If this were a playoff series I know were I would put my safe money bet.

PS. I'm sure Shanny, Dubas and Keefe are hoping the Leafs don't have to face these TB Lightning in round #1 to prove their cap spending top 4 Forward point next year, or I think they will be all fired shortly after this series ends.

I'm not saying the Leafs top players didnt look like they came out the backside of a horse, I'm saying you cant compare salaries signed 2-3-4 years apart.
anyone signed before the Leafs players will obviously have a better contract for similar production.

Everyone hopped on the Florida bandwagon this year, and what happened to them, and they have a $10million albatross in net, Barkov has 1 year left, then he's likely joining the $10 million club and Hubs a year after that

the Oilers have the 2 best forwards in the world, what was their production like compared to their cap hit?
Washington it took Ovechkin 10 years to win a cup ...they have Backstrom at 9.2 for 4 more years, I'll take the Tavares deal over that one. Kuz at 7.8 is not great, would you take the Leafs 'overpriced' roster or rather have the Capitals mess, Mess?

 

[mydnyte]

False that's just straight up wrong. If we had been making the ECSF and ECF the past two years people are exictied and have faith that the core players can win us games come spring and the problem is with the depth and support.

Losing the past 3 years in the 1st round has most reasonable people correctly questioning if this core of players can win

be realistic...
if that were the case, there would be more people squawking about how we dont have enough to get over the hump, or, we're good, but not good enough etc
they would call us the Buffalo Bills of hockey, make the finals a few times every time until your team cant compete any more. ...that what i'd expect to hear.

 

[egd27]

if they dont win the cup, this same banter just starts with as much disappointment or even more

Maybe.

I'd like to believe if they were to win a couple of rounds, and put up a respectable showing in let's say the semis or even the finals, reasonable people that are currently fed up, would be much forgiving of falling short of the cup.

Sure you're always going to get those posters that nothing is ever good enough for, but that's what the ignore list is for.

 

[BigGulpsEh]

if they dont win the cup, this same banter just starts with as much disappointment or even more

Majority of fans want to see some progress. Not new embarrassing ways to get knocked out of the 1st rd every year

 

[Atomos2]

This needs to have a 2021 update version. There are some parts that still fit which is the sad part. Sadder part you can replace Clarkson with Marner and it still makes sense... But it still needs an update. Where are you Steve?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

@Throw More Waffles

Marner @ 10.893 > Rantanen @ 9.5 LOL

It's flat out infuriating. I honestly just can't believe this happened. Those contracts completely ruined the entire rebuild, top to bottom.

 

[Racer88]

It's flat out infuriating. I honestly just can't believe this happened. Those contracts completely ruined the entire rebuild, top to bottom.

Agreed 100%.........and Dubas still has a job. Epic fail on Shanny’s part

 

[centipede2233]

Majority of fans want to see some progress. Not new embarrassing ways to get knocked out of the 1st rd every year

Ding ding ding!

 

[mcleafs]

It’s annoying to talk contracts, cause they don’t matter. Even best case scenario is that all of our contracts are a bit of a better bargain (Matthews, Marner a mil or so less each, same with JT and Willy) and that’s only 4-5 mil total. That’s not dramatically changing the team.

The issue is Matthews and Marner are losers who lose, and I simply don’t see that changing. All we can hope for is one year they fluke their way to a 1st Round win and they ride a random heater afterwards. Outside of that this team is not close to winning a thing.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Tampa has the deepest, and best blue line in the NHL, and the best goalie in the NHL. and still has tons of offense besides Stamkos.
...for them losing Stamkos is more like us losing Nylander, but not having the great defense, and the best goalie in the world as compensation.

I see you've been working for the Leafs PR Dept for a long time...2004...wow.

 

[All Mod Cons]

What happens if we are back here next year?
Specifically for the people who don’t want the core touched.
Because after last year, we already are back here next year.

I mean is this the way we are just going to carry forward?

If that happens, we demand another year of Dubas.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

The fact that MTL is able to be considered a storm is just pathetic. That team is straight ass. We should have been dominating them like Marchand, Bergeron, Pasta dominated us in 2018 playoffs.

Matthews and Marner should have been near 2ppg in a 5 game blowout. These players were treating tyler toffoli, suzuki, KK, Danult etc like they were superstars and letting them hold the puck and dictate play.

Keefe/Babcock coaching playing not to lose. The coaching change hasn't done a thing.

 

[The Legend]

Shanahan really spins the narrative. He's been here 7 years. I'll give him the first 3 years since we werent supposed to make playoffs (including horchuck year)

so thats 4 years of constant fail in the playoffs. I look at other teams like Bos, Islanders, Florida, Tampa, Hurricanes and they have another level in the playoffs.

I just dont see it in this current team. Major changes need to happen.

Pardon

 

[rumman]

Eichel is my first choice of the names thrown out there for Marner. I'd move Tavares to wing.

Matthews Nylander
Eichel Tavares

I acknowledge the risk with Eichel, and of course he would have to pass medical checks, but the payoff is worth the gamble.

Do the Leafs really need another diva? Kids got talent, but hasn’t shown any character thus far in the NHL, nothing but red flags imo.

 

[socko]

It’s annoying to talk contracts, cause they don’t matter. Even best case scenario is that all of our contracts are a bit of a better bargain (Matthews, Marner a mil or so less each, same with JT and Willy) and that’s only 4-5 mil total. That’s not dramatically changing the team.

The issue is Matthews and Marner are losers who lose, and I simply don’t see that changing. All we can hope for is one year they fluke their way to a 1st Round win and they ride a random heater afterwards. Outside of that this team is not close to winning a thing.

Matthews 8 x $11. He's better than Eichel and worse than McDavid.
Marner 5 x $8.5. Same contract as Aho. He puts up big regular season points but he's also small, weak & has no shot.
Nylander 7 X $6.5. That's a better deal than Ehlers got. Ehlers is better than Nylander.

You could argue these are all small overpays, but lets face it Dubas could only dream of these.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

That is exactly the whole cap consumption argument about how to spend your Cap wisely.

Vic Hedman a Norris trophy Dman in 8 games has 0-10-10 points for $7,875,000 AAV... Leaf fans have argued that if Nylander were a Norris level Dman using the same Cap the Leafs would be better.

Mitch Marner needed to get paid as one of the highest paid in the NHL at $10.9 AAV produced 7-0-4-4 points while Kucherov at $9.5 mil has 8 games 3-9-12 points.

or better still to demonstrate your deepest team point;

Brayden Point a player often compared to Marner took a 3 year bridge deal at $6,750,000 AAV and has produced 8 games 5-2-7 points but the TB Cap savings ($4.2 mil) saved on Marner's $10.9 mil has allowed TB to afford to pay Alex Killorn his $4.45 mil AAV and produce 8 games 5-4-9 points. So Point 5-2-7 points + Killorn @ 5-4-9 points = 10 goals 6 assists 16 points compared to Mitch at 0-4-4 points for the same cap hit..

So when a player like Stamkos 8 games 3-6-9 points for $8.5 and Leafs have 2 X Centres making $11 mil or more each and Matthews $ 11.64 AAV produces 1 goal 4 assists and 5 points . So Stamkos is not offsetting Nylander, he as actually outscoring our best player and doing it for $3.14 mil less and that cap space being used on another F or D player.

So its fairly easy to point to Leafs 4 X F using 1/2 Cap and then comparing it to the defending Cup champs TB and their top 4 production this year and expose Leafs overspending on far less production and its hurting team depth as a result.

Great post! BOOM!

 

[rumman]

Any word from MLSE board, or is all hope lost?

 

[socko]

Do the Leafs really need another diva? Kids got talent, but hasn’t shown any character thus far in the NHL, nothing but red flags imo.

If you want equal value for Marner, you have to take some red flags. Nobody is going to give you MacKinnon for him. Personally, I wouldn't do this deal if I was Buffalo unless Eichel has really pissed me off and there is no other way.

 

[Gabriel426]

I'm not saying the Leafs top players didnt look like they came out the backside of a horse, I'm saying you cant compare salaries signed 2-3-4 years apart.
anyone signed before the Leafs players will obviously have a better contract for similar production.

Everyone hopped on the Florida bandwagon this year, and what happened to them, and they have a $10million albatross in net, Barkov has 1 year left, then he's likely joining the $10 million club and Hubs a year after that

the Oilers have the 2 best forwards in the world, what was their production like compared to their cap hit?
Washington it took Ovechkin 10 years to win a cup ...they have Backstrom at 9.2 for 4 more years, I'll take the Tavares deal over that one. Kuz at 7.8 is not great, would you take the Leafs 'overpriced' roster or rather have the Capitals mess, Mess?

Caps won already.
Oilers really lack everything but McDavid and Leon. I would trade McDavid and Leon for AM and Marner(with enough retention to make it work salary wise).
Panthers played TB and we played the Habs, pls don't compare the these two teams.

I could careless how much Marner, JT or AM are getting paid as long as they deliver in the playoffs and Win the Cup.
All Cup winning teams can spend the max of the salary cap, it doesn't matter how they use it as long as they win. If the Hockey God said, Leafs will win the Cup but all their draft picks will be bust for the next 10 years and the core will walk for nothing during UFA, I think everyone will take that deal.

 

[Arzak]

3 more years of Matthews' contract left and we're gonna likely waste at least one more of them with the same core. Man I don't know what to say. These guys need to be urgent here, Tavares is getting older, Brodie is also gonna be done in 3 more years, Nylander will possibly decline when he loses some foot speed......and we're talking about just giving these same losers another year and giving a coach with nothing proven another year.

They need to make a deep run in one of those years to make him stay.

Do we expect him to resign as UFA and any idea how much of an increase we are talking about?

 

[Arzak]

How can salaries/AAV be irrelevant when were talking Cup competitiveness and Leafs high spending problem?

This is what it really looks like TB top 4 vs Leafs top 4 and this years playoff stats & Goalie.

TB
Kucherov....8 games 3-9-12 points.
Hedman ....8 games 0-10-10 points
Stamkos.... 8 games 3-6-9 points
Point............ 8 games 5-2-7 points

Total Cap = $32.6 mil ..... Total Points = 11 goals 27 assists 38 points
+ Goalie Vasilievski @ $9.5 mil
Total Cap (Top 4 players + 1 G) = $42.15 mil

VS

Leafs
Nylander ...... 7 games 5-3-8 points
Matthews .....7 games 1-4-5 points
Marner .......... 7 games 0-4-4 points
Tavares ..........1 game 0-0-0 points (injured)

Total Cap = $ 40.5 mil .. Total Points = 6 goals 11 assists 17 points
+ Goalie Jack Campbell @ 1.65 mil
Total Cap (Top 4 players + 1 G) = $42.15 mil

When TB and Leafs are in the same Division next year again and have to play each other head to head these Cap hits wont change so they're not irrelevant for either team, and I guarantee you Shanahan's "killer instinct" all that missing ain't going to fix that either.

TB has a Vezina Goalie + Norris Dman and 3 elite scoring forwards for the same cap usage as Leafs 4 with Campbell.. If this were a playoff series I know were I would put my safe money bet.

PS. I'm sure Shanny, Dubas and Keefe are hoping the Leafs don't have to face these TB Lightning in round #1 to prove their cap spending top 4 Forward point next year, or I think they will be all fired shortly after this series ends.

Please don't do it with Boston, it would look alike... Leafs just have to face multiple teams with stars on friendly contracts in the division .

 

[Mess]

Please don't do it with Boston, it would look alike... Leafs just have to face multiple teams with stars on friendly contracts in the division .

I won't do Boston I promise, as its too depressing when compared to ours as well.