Shanahan Post Season Presser

[ToneDog]

It's like with anything else the first step is acknowledging that there is a problem.

If the Leafs management can even admit something is wrong after 5 first round exists then I don't know what to say aside from the fact the entire management team should be fired.

The minimum they should have said was that they would be open to anything that improved the club.

I believe what they say in public may not be what they think behind closed doors, so there may be some hope. Can't wait until the 3 stooges finish their post season post mortem to find out how they address what they really think was the problem.

 

[RoadWarrior]

The minimum they should have said was that they would be open to anything that improved the club.

I believe what they say in public may not be what they think behind closed doors, so there may be some hope. Can't wait until the 3 stooges finish their post season post mortem to find out how they address what they really think was the problem.

Let's be honest. Everyone and their dog knows what the problem is.

They have too much of the cap room tied up in 4 forwards. At a minimum one of them has to go to even have a chance at improving the club.

Marner is the logical choice but something tells me they will dump the best of the bunch in Nylander who is decent value for his contract.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The minimum they should have said was that they would be open to anything that improved the club.

I believe what they say in public may not be what they think behind closed doors, so there may be some hope. Can't wait until the 3 stooges finish their post season post mortem to find out how they address what they really think was the problem.

To me it really goes back to Larry and his mtg(s) post exit interviews with Shanny on da state of da team .. this is where da sh*t hits da road .. press dealings with media types who need jobs with Bell and Rogers and/or affiliates mean ZERO as no one can afford to lose a job over it .. at some point da financial weights are gonna kick in .. we will see

 

[mydnyte]

Do the Habs get Drouin back for the series in this hypothetical scenario of yours?

Drouin makes them worse, he is a liability defensively

 

[sparxx87]

Most are saying Marner for Jones or Eichel which look like wins to me.

You could take less for Marner if it leaves them with 4+m in cap space to be used to help sign UFAs.

I’d really look at that Jones trade but would need an extension in place. Cannot move Marner for a rental.

 

[mydnyte]

Injuries are apart of sport and part of the risk in putting so many eggs in one basket. Tampa was without Steven Stamkos whose been closely compared to Tavares their entire careers and still won the cup last year.

They have a far more balanced cap and 7-8 forwards who can play centre so they were able to overcome it.

The Leafs fall off a cliff after Tavares and another even larger cliff after Kerfoot. They can’t afford more good centres because they have no more money.

Just lost to Danault, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Staal, Evans and I think I’m forgetting another. THAT is depth at centre ice.

Tampa has the deepest, and best blue line in the NHL, and the best goalie in the NHL. and still has tons of offense besides Stamkos.
...for them losing Stamkos is more like us losing Nylander, but not having the great defense, and the best goalie in the world as compensation.

 

[egd27]

Killer instinct - how about just show up, give it 100% and care

Probably posted this at least half a dozen times in GDT's but how about instead of weathering the storm for the first 10 mins of an important game, being the frickin storm and put the opposition back on their heels?

 

[francis246]

I'll ask again.

How many game 7's (and 5's) do we need to lose before you're ready to trade one of the 4?

After 5 first round loses, myself and most leaf fans are sick and tired of it. Its time for change because clearly changing the supporting cast has done very little.

Dubas and some of you seem to think that all we need is the right 3rd and 4th liners to instill some grit and will in the lineup when it has to come from your stars.

I don't often agree with Dubas, but I do in this case. I respect the fact that they are willing to live and die with this group. In the end it may cost him his job but this is a damn good core and two weeks ago people were singing his praises. I don't foresee a scenario where trading one of the Big Four nets you a return that will immediately make you better. It might create lots of flexibility which is important and beneficial but you're actually decreasing the talent on the team. The reality is big name players don't really hit UFA in the NHL, so cap space is nice but what impact player are you signing in UFA in the next couple of years?

The only player you can move that maybe you can make a straight trade that gets you better immediately would be Nylander. His cap hit is workable, you can do a 1 for 1, forward for defenseman with more ease, or maybe even trade Nylander for a comparable forward who plays a different style. But then do you really want to move Nylander who has proven to be worth every penny?

JT has a no move so he isn't going anywhere.

I just don't think there is a deal out there that you make for Matthews or Marner and the next year you are significantly better. Do you honestly believe trading Marner for example would make us better next year? I have my doubts about that.

 

[francis246]

They gambled with the DeRozen for Leonard deal as well. I think that turned ok if I recall correctly.

very true but in our case we would be San Antonio acquiring DeRozan and giving up Marner (Leonard) to another team (the raptors). Marner would def be the best player in any deal you make for him.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I don't often agree with Dubas, but I do in this case. I respect the fact that they are willing to live and die with this group. In the end it may cost him his job but this is a damn good core and two weeks ago people were singing his praises. I don't foresee a scenario where trading one of the Big Four nets you a return that will immediately make you better. It might create lots of flexibility which is important and beneficial but you're actually decreasing the talent on the team. The reality is big name players don't really hit UFA in the NHL, so cap space is nice but what impact player are you signing in UFA in the next couple of years?

The only player you can move that maybe you can make a straight trade that gets you better immediately would be Nylander. His cap hit is workable, you can do a 1 for 1, forward for defenseman with more ease, or maybe even trade Nylander for a comparable forward who plays a different style. But then do you really want to move Nylander who has proven to be worth every penny?

JT has a no move so he isn't going anywhere.

I just don't think there is a deal out there that you make for Matthews or Marner and the next year you are significantly better. Do you honestly believe trading Marner for example would make us better next year? I have my doubts about that.

It is virtually impossible analytically, as it has never ever been done before, where a team was won anything with 4 forwards taking up 50% of CAP .. so you are relying on HOPE and a PRAYER .. me I did not make my millions on hopes and prayers .. but of course you are likely a fan with no vested financial interest in da team so it really does not matter

 

[sparxx87]

Tampa has the deepest, and best blue line in the NHL, and the best goalie in the NHL. and still has tons of offense besides Stamkos.
...for them losing Stamkos is more like us losing Nylander, but not having the great defense, and the best goalie in the world as compensation.

But how are they able to afford all that talent and depth with the same cap that will now be flat for 5 years?

 

[egd27]

Tampa has the deepest, and best blue line in the NHL, and the best goalie in the NHL. and still has tons of offense besides Stamkos.
...for them losing Stamkos is more like us losing Nylander, but not having the great defense, and the best goalie in the world as compensation.

Wonder if that's because they've spread their cap around effectively and negotiated team friendly contracts? Or should we just use the debunked state tax excuse again?

 

[francis246]

It is virtually impossible analytically, as it has never ever been done before, where a team was won anything with 4 forwards taking up 50% of CAP .. so you are relying on HOPE and a PRAYER .. me I did not make my millions on hopes and prayers .. but of course you are likely a fan with no vested financial interest in da team so it really does not matter

exactly, I don't give a shit about the money. It's not my money. You make it work now, Dubas overpaid them, I wish he hadn't but what's done is done. I understand their reasoning, the cap was supposed to go up, Covid screwed that. You can't predict that, but still they overpaid on i'd say Marner's deal. I really don't think Nylander is overpayed btw. It's really Marner that screwed us here and maybe signing Tavares. But how do you say no to signing a top 10 center in the league? That's a no brainer acquisition, if he wants to play here, he wants to play here.

 

[francis246]

Wonder if that's because they've spread their cap around effectively and negotiated team friendly contracts? Or should we just use the debunked state tax excuse again?

I mean they have a pretty expensive blue line and LTIR helped them in terms of acquiring and keep Ryan McDonaugh. Lets not underplay the fact that Tampa has been heavily reliant on LTIR and cap circumvention to make their roster work. They may not have 50% invested in forwards but they have some brutal contracts on their roster and they will have to do a lot of roster reconstruction this off-season.

But as I mentioned before, when you win a cup all is forgiven

 

[RoadWarrior]

I don't often agree with Dubas, but I do in this case. I respect the fact that they are willing to live and die with this group. In the end it may cost him his job but this is a damn good core and two weeks ago people were singing his praises. I don't foresee a scenario where trading one of the Big Four nets you a return that will immediately make you better. It might create lots of flexibility which is important and beneficial but you're actually decreasing the talent on the team. The reality is big name players don't really hit UFA in the NHL, so cap space is nice but what impact player are you signing in UFA in the next couple of years?

The only player you can move that maybe you can make a straight trade that gets you better immediately would be Nylander. His cap hit is workable, you can do a 1 for 1, forward for defenseman with more ease, or maybe even trade Nylander for a comparable forward who plays a different style. But then do you really want to move Nylander who has proven to be worth every penny?

JT has a no move so he isn't going anywhere.

I just don't think there is a deal out there that you make for Matthews or Marner and the next year you are significantly better. Do you honestly believe trading Marner for example would make us better next year? I have my doubts about that.

If it was a "good core" they'd have won a playoff round in the last 5 years. It's not a core that can win. That's the bottom line.

 

[francis246]

But how are they able to afford all that talent and depth with the same cap that will now be flat for 5 years?

LMAO stamkos has been on LTIR most of the last two years that's how and then having Kucherov on LTIR doesn't hurt either

 

[killer1980]

The minimum they should have said was that they would be open to anything that improved the club.

I believe what they say in public may not be what they think behind closed doors, so there may be some hope. Can't wait until the 3 stooges finish their post season post mortem to find out how they address what they really think was the problem.

They're all drinking the Dubas kool-aid. Nothing will happen. They have put they're faith in a smooth talking con man who has stolen their shorts. Him and his core are laughing all the way to the bank and really don't care.

 

[Trapper]

I’d really look at that Jones trade but would need an extension in place. Cannot move Marner for a rental.

Jones would be a good move. You could look at picking up Nate Schmidt who is already signed and use Rielly to bring in some forward scoring.

That would certainly change the dynamic.

Matthews - Nylander
Tavares - new addition

Schmidt - Jones
Muzzin - Brodie

 

[Martin Skoula]

Wonder if that's because they've spread their cap around effectively and negotiated team friendly contracts? Or should we just use the debunked state tax excuse again?

Yeah it's because they can pay Coleman 2 mil instead of Spezza at league min, not because they drafted Kucherov, Point, Palat, Gourde, Cirelli, etc with less draft capital than most contenders spend in a single deadline. Our contracts wouldn't be an issue if we were finding 40 goal Selke caliber #1Cs in the 3rd round.

Here, Matthews Marner and Tavares all felt bad about this season and decided to give 2 mil of each of their AAVs back, you have them all at 9ish mil now with 6 mil to spend in UFA, go make a Tampa level roster with that money. I'm sure adding some premium third liners instead of league minimum ones is going to bridge the gap or find you a Vasilievski level goalie in FA.

 

[francis246]

If it was a "good core" they'd have won a playoff round in the last 5 years. It's not a core that can win. That's the bottom line.

don't be ignorant and patronize me, there's a different between being good and falling short in the playoffs. Many teams would kill for our core. There is something missing there no doubt, but let's not act like they aren't an exceptional group of players.

 

[mydnyte]

Probably posted this at least half a dozen times in GDT's but how about instead of weathering the storm for the first 10 mins of an important game, being the frickin storm and put the opposition back on their heels?

100% with our offense, there is no reason we shouldnt be dominating at the start of every game, except that we lose the opening draw too often, and then chase them around, and make a line change.

 

[hamzarocks]

Probably posted this at least half a dozen times in GDT's but how about instead of weathering the storm for the first 10 mins of an important game, being the frickin storm and put the opposition back on their heels?

The fact that MTL is able to be considered a storm is just pathetic. That team is straight ass. We should have been dominating them like Marchand, Bergeron, Pasta dominated us in 2018 playoffs.

Matthews and Marner should have been near 2ppg in a 5 game blowout. These players were treating tyler toffoli, suzuki, KK, Danult etc like they were superstars and letting them hold the puck and dictate play.

 

[egd27]

very true but in our case we would be San Antonio acquiring DeRozan and giving up Marner (Leonard) to another team (the raptors). Marner would def be the best player in any deal you make for him.

Oh, so you're switching from the Raptors' perspective to the Spurs' perspective because my example invalidated your first assertion about the Raps gambling? Well that's certainly convenient for your argument.

 

[francis246]

The fact that MTL is able to be considered a storm is just pathetic. That team is straight ass. We should have been dominating them like Marchand, Bergeron, Pasta dominated us in 2018 playoffs.

Matthews and Marner should have been near 2ppg in a 5 game blowout. These players were treating tyler toffoli, suzuki, KK, Danult etc like they were superstars and letting them hold the puck and dictate play.

is that not a fault of coaching as well. I said many times why is Keefe playing them against the Danault line so much at home. Keefe looked for no favourable matchups considering he had last change advantage. He should have kept them away for the line that was so effective at shutting them down. That is just poor coaching in my opinion.

And I get it, Matthews and Marner should be better than Danualt, but guess what the Danault line had a plan and stuck to it, so Keefe has to consider the fact that a change had to be made

 

[17 Clark]

I don't often agree with Dubas, but I do in this case. I respect the fact that they are willing to live and die with this group. In the end it may cost him his job but this is a damn good core and two weeks ago people were singing his praises. I don't foresee a scenario where trading one of the Big Four nets you a return that will immediately make you better. It might create lots of flexibility which is important and beneficial but you're actually decreasing the talent on the team. The reality is big name players don't really hit UFA in the NHL, so cap space is nice but what impact player are you signing in UFA in the next couple of years?

The only player you can move that maybe you can make a straight trade that gets you better immediately would be Nylander. His cap hit is workable, you can do a 1 for 1, forward for defenseman with more ease, or maybe even trade Nylander for a comparable forward who plays a different style. But then do you really want to move Nylander who has proven to be worth every penny?

JT has a no move so he isn't going anywhere.

I just don't think there is a deal out there that you make for Matthews or Marner and the next year you are significantly better. Do you honestly believe trading Marner for example would make us better next year? I have my doubts about that.

Speak for yourself People have not been happy with the core for a couple years now no I was singing his praises it’s time you and the rest of them stop drinking the Kool-Aid how much longer are you going to allow the team to be destroyed plus by not changing anything except the fringe players that’s a slap in the face to your fans What is the definition of stupid trying the same thing over and over repetitively And coming out with the same result No changes in the core they put the S in stupid