Shanahan Post Season Presser

[All Mod Cons]

is it really though? do you want to pay hyman 5 or 6 million? Because I sure as hell don't

Why not? We've overpaid everyone to this point, why stop now? At least overpay someone who looks like he gives a f***.

 

[Fogelhund]

I'd move Nylander, Reilly, and Dermott
You build around Matthews and Marner
Bring in more Hyman type guys , shot blockers, forecheckers

You move the guy who was your top forward in the playoffs, and an emerging top 4 D?

To keep Marner, a guy who hasn't performed...

that's just weird.

 

[RoadWarrior]

I'd move Nylander, Reilly, and Dermott
You build around Matthews and Marner
Bring in more Hyman type guys , shot blockers, forecheckers

Is that you Kyle?

 

[francis246]

These guys are getting paid to make tough decisions. It's become obvious to everyone except the leafs management that moving core pieces is going to be necessary to win in the playoffs.

So you move Marner for futures. Great. Now you have $10M in cap space plus a boatload of draft picks to re-stock the cupboard. You spend some of the $10M on a Seth Jones and re-signing Rielly.

you're acting like signing Seth Jones is a guarantee. It's not, you are gambling. The Raptors made that gamble with Giannis and missed horribly. Now they are tasked with not having a team that was nearly as good as it was 2 years ago. I'd hate to see the leafs make that same mistake. You focus on the here and now. That is why I don't believe any management team would make a drastic move like what many people are suggesting. I think they will explore options to move one of the guys if there is a 2-1 deal that makes sense or they can drop some cap without drastically losing what Marner/Nylander/Tavares brings then they will make that move.

 

[killer1980]

the funniest thing is I'm not a Dubas fan you jackass. I've been openly critical about him since his hiring. But this is def not on him and you don't just trade star players for the sake of trading them. If the right deal is there then take it. Otherwise moving them because of a game 7 loss is completely reactionary and dumb.

How about moving them after 4 game 7 losses and 1 5th game loss. We all accepted 1 game 7 loss, 2 game 7 losses after that it better have improved.

 

[pspot]

yes, sell high on nylander

 

[RoadWarrior]

you're acting like signing Seth Jones is a guarantee. It's not, you are gambling. The Raptors made that gamble with Giannis and missed horribly. Now they are tasked with not having a team that was nearly as good as it was 2 years ago. I'd hate to see the leafs make that same mistake. You focus on the here and now. That is why I don't believe any management team would make a drastic move like what many people are suggesting. I think they will explore options to move one of the guys if there is a 2-1 deal that makes sense or they can drop some cap without drastically losing what Marner/Nylander/Tavares brings then they will make that move.

If not Seth Jones then you can acquire another top pairing D man. There's 62 of them in the league at any given time.

If you have the cap space they will come.

 

[francis246]

How about moving them after 4 game 7 losses and 1 5th game loss. We all accepted 1 game 7 loss, 2 game 7 losses after that it better have improved.

The recent Boston Losses I don't really care about, they weren't favoured to even win those series. So for Babcock to get them to a game 7 was amazing.

If we are really judging them I'd say the last two series are most concerning. They should have closed Columbus out, and they should have closed Montreal out. I'm not sure what the right solution is. I think you give them at least one more crack. Maybe get Matthews a good left winger for starters. Mike Hoffman or Blake Coleman, someone with jam like Hyman but can actually put the puck in the net consistently.

 

[francis246]

If not Seth Jones then you can acquire another top pairing D man. There's 62 of them in the league at any given time.

if it's so easy it would have been done by now. You gotta draft and develop a defenseman. That's another part of the problem we have been awful at drafting and developing top tier defenseman.

 

[WTFMAN99]

The recent Boston Losses I don't really care about, they weren't favoured to even win those series. So for Babcock to get them to a game 7 was amazing.

If we are really judging them I'd say the last two series are most concerning. They should have closed Columbus out, and they should have closed Montreal out. I'm not sure what the right solution is. I think you give them at least one more crack. Maybe get Matthews a good left winger for starters. Mike Hoffman or Blake Coleman, someone with jam like Hyman but can actually put the puck in the net consistently.

Classic loser mentality there.

Especially the 2nd year, we had just added Tavares.

Expectation is to always win.

If we're not betting favourites going into a series, we're supposed to be okay with losing?

Okay, we've lost 2 series in a row now as heavy favourites vs CBJ and MTL.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I don't think you understand the pressure that comes with moving one of these 4. You guys all say make a move, but the moment Dubas does or if we get a new GM (whoever it is) and that trade goes sideways this fan base will lose their shit. You can't win being the GM of the Maple Leafs. Everyone is saying move Marner for example, what if that deal is for futures, but it's the best deal available? How will everyone feel. This board would collapse instantly and be calling for Dubas to get fired.

I absolutely hate this woe is me attitude from Leafs fans. GM can't win, media is really mean, too much pressure, leave our boys alone.

For the record, I don't care if Dubas trades, doesn't trade, fire or marry Marner (for example), I want Kyle let go. I have for over two years. I've no doubt he's a good guy, I wish him and his family all the best and unlimited success in the future. I just don't want him to be the GM of my favourite team.

 

[egd27]

You mean like Mike Babcock ?? Seriously should have pounced on coach Q when he was available but hey Dubas prefers his coach.

It was clearly time to move on from Babcock at the end of 2019. If you believe what you read, retaining him was on Shanahan.

But had they cut ties with Babcock then, they would have had the summer to short list and interview candidates and have them in place for training camp. Surely they could have found someone (maybe Q) that had a track record of moving a team to the next level that wouldn't hurt KD's feelings everyday.

IMO Keefe is not ready to be an NHL Head coach, let alone for the TML.

 

[Mess]

I'm left to conclude that those intangible qualities that made the difference between winning and losing this year have to come from the core group. We can't graft them on by giving out league minimum contracts to veterans. I'd like to see the supporting roles filled with hungry younger players who bring speed, tenacity, finish their checks and are just generally a pain in the ass to play against.

What if its the core group that is the problem, because they eat up too much Cap and the lack the playoff style intangibles needed to be successful?.

Playoff hockey is all about hard hitting and tight checking and lower scoring, grinding it out and raising your compete level, with less time and space to operate, with rush attacks limited and the high danger areas all well protected.

Does that sound like a style of game play that Marner would flourish in or collapse under?

Even when playing marginal playoff teams like CBJ an MON who are not serious Cup contenders and low scoring opponents, he can't compete as his 4 assists in 5 games last year and 4 assists in 7 games this year confirm. That is because he is a small, soft, non physical player that avoids contact and plays on the perimeter and not willing to play in traffic, with a muffin for a shot that no goalie fears from distance and a pass first mentality that is nullified by defending his passing lanes and options.

If 1 single Phillip Danault shutdown player in the playoffs can hold the Hyman -- Matthews -- Marner line to 2 goals in 7 games despite getting 24 minutes of ice-time, then I can't see how moving around 3rd and 4th line pieces annually solves that problem.

 

[francis246]

Classic loser mentality there.

Especially the 2nd year, we had just added Tavares.

Expectation is to always win.

If we're not betting favourites going into a series, we're supposed to be okay with losing?

Okay, we've lost 2 series in a row now as heavy favourites vs CBJ and MTL.

I've moved past it, you can't hold on to it forever. That's not a good thing to have personally, if you want to let sports have you angered for years thats on you. But I know for me it's not healthy. Of course I want them to win, more than anything and want them held accountable but I'm not going to hold onto to things from 4 years ago

 

[The Masters]

They should fire Sheldon Keefe. I thought he got out coached by a landslide in 2 straight series.

i’ll say this about Keefe.
There was a lot of talk about Nick Nurse and how the Leafs now got their Nick Nurse and he’s a coach that doesnt wait andwill make smart adjustments on the fly.
Heres why Keefe aint no Nick nurse

1) nick nurse is super intelligent but highly demanding and doesnt put up with bad play. He will push guys and bench them if they dont play up to standards.
2) keefe played Thornton all throughout this series knowing he was a liability out there. Nurse would have adjusted and gave his minutes to someone else. Also, since Marner wasnt going well - keefe shoulda put Nylander with matthews. We never saw it.

leafs are in trouble if they think Keefe will lead them. He is too inexperienced and doesnt have the right demeanour so far in two seasons.

 

[sparxx87]

Every advanced model on salaries, disagreed with you. But, who cares... salary isn't why we lost, but you've already ignored that.

Habs had 5 quality NHL centres. Leafs had 3. Habs had 7-8 forwards that made positive impact. Leafs had 4-5. Why?

Matthews and Marner didn’t do enough, no doubt, but very often top lines and top sixes offset in playoff matchups and it becomes about depth. The Leafs couldn’t score when Danault-Gallagher-Evans shut down their top line outside of Nylander. That was a huge problem.

8 minutes into period 1 of round 1 the Leafs lost a big player at their shallowest position and never had a chance, even if they got past Montréal.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I've moved past it, you can't hold on to it forever. That's not a good thing to have personally, if you want to let sports have you angered for years thats on you. But I know for me it's not healthy. Of course I want them to win, more than anything and want them held accountable but I'm not going to hold onto to things from 4 years ago

I'm not holding on to it, but I am not an idiot and noticed the core was the same from those teams to the teams that dropped series as heavy favourites. The same core that is 0-7 in games they can eliminate the opposing teams.

No one told CBJ they weren't supposed to beat TBL in 4 games straight but they did it.

 

[francis246]

I absolutely hate this woe is me attitude from Leafs fans. GM can't win, media is really mean, too much pressure, leave our boys alone.

For the record, I don't care if Dubas trades, doesn't trade, fire or marry Marner (for example), I want Kyle let go. I have for over two years. I've no doubt he's a good guy, I wish him and his family all the best and unlimited success in the future. I just don't want him to be the GM of my favourite team.

I personally want Kyle fired as well. But I do also acknowledge no matter what any GM does here, the fan base will not be happy. I can already for see it. Marner traded for ______. The next day a thread on here would be started, "why did we move Marner for _____" if they are going to move Marner for example they better be damn sure they are getting a solid return

 

[NastyKnies]

Shanahan has created another country club with entitled membership.

Just about the last thing this team needed.

It's certaintly what Harold would of wanted.

 

[sparxx87]

They acknowledge the problem, it's a process, now fix it.

Shanahan: 'There's a killer instinct that is missing that we need to address'


Shanahan: 'There's a killer instinct that is missing that we need to address'

No worries. Pipeline loaded with a bunch of 5’9 170lb’ers at every position that surely move the needle.. right? Or maybe they can sign Troy Stetcher and Mikail Granlund next year. I know many wanted them and were disappointed with Bogosian and Simmonds.

 

[Hclass47]

What people seem to forget is that this team was revamped from teams past. Probably the best of all 5 series losses. Fans also forget that year after year this team had to overcome adversity. Ex: Muzzin got hurt in the last 2 playoff series . Jt this year. Kadri 2x etc. It’s not as simple making major changes when you played without your best in the lineup. It’s obvious they need to make changes and they will. Just not as big as the masses want.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I like the trades Dubas has made myself.

He messed up the cap so badly that he was forced to trade a bonafide top 6 winger in his prime for Rodion Amirov.

I was always (and remain) unimpressed by this.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I personally want Kyle fired as well. But I do also acknowledge no matter what any GM does here, the fan base will not be happy. I can already for see it. Marner traded for ______. The next day a thread on here would be started, "why did we move Marner for _____" if they are going to move Marner for example they better be damn sure they are getting a solid return

The majority of the fanbase will absolutely be happy. Have you ever met a fanbase constantly gushing about every signle draft the teams had (for up to 2 or 3 years after), over the moon with every signing and trade. 70% of this fanbase will defend every move you make until they're blue in the face.

As long as you're honest, don't try to feed the fans lip service year after year, you'll have a great time. Now, if you come across as being stubborn, refusing to face reality, have a general smug attitude and portray you're smarter than the fanbase, hold a press conference to tell fans that Cody Ceci is actually a really good player you fans just don't understand, then yes, more of the fanbase will turn on you.

 

[mydnyte]

Salary is absolutely relevant in a cap world.

It’s all about getting the best value for every dollar and I don’t think you could even argue paying Tavares as a top 5 player to be your #2 centre is even close to a good use of funds.

if Tavares doesnt get hurt, are we having this conversation, or are we talking about the Leafs vs Winnipeg?

Best value would be all players on their entry level deals. unfortunately, for us those expired for our core players, and had covid hit in 2018 we would have everyone under contract at 'bargain' deals but we dont.
there are only 4 teams in the league that had tangible cap space this year Det, Ott, LA, and NJD ...everyone else had to make players fit.
Ott will be in trouble soon, as Tkachuk needs a new deal, and they used 6.25 on Murray who has been a flop for them (3 yrs left) as it sits now they have $ 8.4 how much of that is Tkachuk going to use (and Batherson to a lesser extent), and then have Norris, then Stutzle to resign in the next 2 seasons after this.

 

[BigGulpsEh]

I personally want Kyle fired as well. But I do also acknowledge no matter what any GM does here, the fan base will not be happy. I can already for see it. Marner traded for ______. The next day a thread on here would be started, "why did we move Marner for _____" if they are going to move Marner for example they better be damn sure they are getting a solid return

Bringing in a GM that can bring playoff success would make the fanbase happy