Shanahan Post Season Presser

[ToneDog]

So are we getting a Swedish Captain then?
How about at the very least you strip the A off Marner and give it to Willy.

Maybe when Marner works on his core, his shot and his intensity it won’t be so heavy to wear.

Even then, just because someone finally wins doesn’t mean everyone will.
Prime example, Thornton/Marleau. How many Cups?
Are Matthews/Marner Toews/Kane or Thornton/Marleau.

Willie stepped up but he is not "A" material. If anybody should get Marner's "A" it should be Muzzin. Didn't he say something about winning in the playoffs requires effort ??

 

[RoadWarrior]

You’ve got to admire Boston even as rivals.
They don’t compromise, they keep identity and no one is bigger than the team.

Not Kessel,Thornton,Seguin,Hamilton, no one. Accountability.

I really thought Shanahan was going to create that type of identity. Blue collar with skill, hard work, etc.
Nope. Looking for compete, looking for killer instinct, looking for intensity.

Shanahan has created another country club with entitled membership.

Just about the last thing this team needed.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Willie stepped up but he is not "A" material. If anybody should get Marner's "A" it should be Muzzin. Didn't he say something about winning in the playoffs requires effort ??

Muzzin should have an "A". That's a no brainer.

 

[mydnyte]

The f***ing irony of it all, is we're going to lose Hyman for nothing. which is absolutely catastrophic.

people see strong work ethic,, and a battler ...i see a guy who dumps the puck into the corner, than fights to get it back.
he is an opportunistic goal scorer, but, when he has the puck, he is useless. Matthews keeps moving to open shooting spots, and Hyman keeps reversing and trying to get to the net on his own.
I think Hyman's issue is he's been reading all the how great he is stuff and has started to believe it.
Hyman is a 3rd line talent, and will be easily replaced, but, people will lament him when he's gone, even though we may be better off without him (if he's slotted on the opt line ever again)

 

[egd27]

Mixed feelings on this. I'm a huge Dubas fan, I think he's super smart and I think most of the moves he's made have been good ones. However, if he's stubbornly married to this core no matter what, that's a big problem. If his stance in private is that we won't consider moving even one of the big four, I'd start looking for a new GM.

I said in another post that I don't think you can have an inexperienced GM & inexperienced Coach with a young team. So if Shanny thinks KD is the guy, he should be paired with an experienced coach. Too much on the job learning if you have the GM, Coach, and star players all gaining experience at the same time.

 

[ToneDog]

Seriously where are most of the defenders of everything blue and white except Andersen ?? Either they are paid Leaf pumpers or too embarrassed after this epic collapse.

 

[Trapper]

Willie stepped up but he is not "A" material. If anybody should get Marner's "A" it should be Muzzin. Didn't he say something about winning in the playoffs requires effort ??

Oh I agree with Muzzin I just like the look to go from Marner to Nylander (specifically) who scored goals in the playoffs. Nylander has always been the red-headed step child to Marner.

Might as well have some fun in the middle of this debacle.

 

[mydnyte]

No, he signed Tavares which changed his entire cap structure and forced him to move money to keep the inflated Marner and Matthews contracts.

He didn’t have the cap space to add Foligno for the full year so waited and used draft picks for teams to retain and put band aids on their problems.

I'm sorry, but, when you have the chance to sign a top 10 C in the league, you do it every time, and figure out the rest later.
The Tavares signing was great, and he doesnt get hurt, Montreal is at home, and you are likely singing his praises right now, as after the stick change, his game returned to the elite level it had been before.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Lou's Leafs exceeded expectations for 2 playoffs. Dubas' Leafs have collapsed 3 straight years. The turning point in our rebuild was Shammy's decision to hire Blunder Boy and let Lou go. Playoff results are what teams are measured by and Dubas comes up short. Sorry.

Ultimately it was Shanahan that dumped Lou and went with the stats geek on the spectrum who apparently ignores playoff performance - small sample size 'n all that.

 

[RoadWarrior]

No, he signed Tavares which changed his entire cap structure and forced him to move money to keep the inflated Marner and Matthews contracts.

He didn’t have the cap space to add Foligno for the full year so waited and used draft picks for teams to retain and put band aids on their problems.

Basically Dubas has done just about everything aside from touching the "core". Procrastination will not get this team anywhere.

 

[sparxx87]

I'm sorry, but, when you have the chance to sign a top 10 C in the league, you do it every time, and figure out the rest later.
The Tavares signing was great, and he doesnt get hurt, Montreal is at home, and you are likely singing his praises right now, as after the stick change, his game returned to the elite level it had been before.

Now turn off your Xbox and look around the league. What works?

Who else is successful paying $11M to a player whose their #2 centre?

Who is the highest paid 2nd centre of teams who’ve actually won?

How many Hab forwards made positive impact in the series vs how many Leafs?

Why do you think they’re able to see impact from 7-8 fwds while the Leafs can point to 3-4 that were good for them?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that will never happen. Dubas seems to be some sort of Svengali. He has Leaf management (and quite a few posters here) under his spell. The fact of the matter is, any way you look at it, the team has regressed under his leadership. From not making the playoffs last year to losing to the 18th ranked team in the NHL this year, it boggles the mind that he hasn't been held accountable.

I think it will .. team will lose a few guys like me next year and even if it is only maybe 50-100 sponsors out of 100o we have but revenues will get impacted with pandemic again for another year .. ticket brokers will end up with more tickets to sell which will increase public availability .. but does TO public fork out 200-250 for a tuesday night game against wild with a 4th/5th place team in atlantic??? .. of course this is speculation but i think you are truly seeing da start of da end of da cash cow in Leafland .. everything at some point runs to its end .. there are just too many older guys propping up Leafs today and I really don't see younger guys taking up financial commitment unless team is really really good then of course all bets are off

 

[TheGoldenJet]

You're assuming we won't get fair value in return, why is that?

The right GM would get a good return for any of the core. The current GM? Not so much.

 

[Trapper]

Basically Dubas has done just about everything aside from touching the "core". Procrastination will not get this team anywhere.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. – Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, stated by Sherlock Holmes.

 

[Fogelhund]

Seriously where are most of the defenders of everything blue and white except Andersen ?? Either they are paid Leaf pumpers or too embarrassed after this epic collapse.

Maybe you count me as a defender? I don't know. I'm disgusted and embarrassed and partially just disillusioned.

I personally think that Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe mostly got it right. We had a great team. Our playoff failure was down to a few things.... mostly a lack of Matthews and Marner stepping up when we needed them most. One goal in game five or six, and we would have moved on. Marner in particular wasn't very good. That isn't on management... these are elite players, who excel on a regular basis... but just not in the playoffs. It's up to management to decide, if we need to make a change in players, or if hiring sports psychologists, to get them over the hump in the playoffs is the answer.

These players let everyone else, including management down.

We were such a small margin away from getting through... of course Tavares going down didn't help, but we were good enough to beat Montreal without him.. and should have.

 

[Garthinater]

he did that ONE time, Marleau, else he didnt have the cap space to sign Marner/Matthews

Are you forgetting foligno?

It shouldn't have cost over 22 million to sign marner and matthews, especially since we didn't get max term. Just terrible negotiating by dubas.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I am still in shock and mourning over how the series ended...

...but it bears remembering that we twice came back from multi-goal 3rd period deficits to come within one goal of ending the series with an OT winner in Games 5 or 6.

Just one goal in either of those games and the narrative is completely different. One goal. Yes, it didn't happen (again!!), so the gap between success and failure sure seems like a chasm right now, but it really is frustratingly razor thin.

But yet again, in a huge game, game 7 with health care workers in attendance, the effort they put in was embarrassing. They just rolled over like they always do in big games
Had the fought to the bitter end, showed some compete especially in games 5, 6 and 7 it would be a different conversation.
Waiting for these players to develop a "killer instinct" is craziness in my mind. What they've developed is a loser mentality.
And bringing in "leadership" and toughness (Thornton, Spezza, Marleau, Clifford, Simmonds) hasn't changed a damn thing about the way they play when the season is on the line.

 

[socko]

I'm of the mind to keep Matthews, centres like him don't grow on trees but you need to give him better linemates, Montreal mobbed him. Hyman and Marner weren't threats. I have no idea why Keefe never tried 88 with Matthews because he's a dual shot/pass threat.

I like Willy and think he was very good in the playoffs. But I do find his shot overrated. He has a pretty slow release and doesn't have great accuracy or shot placement. He scores the vast amount of his goals from right in front of the net. I thought Galchenyuk was going to be that guy but he also seems to struggle with accuracy in his limited time with the Leafs. We could use a, dare I say it, Cole Caufield.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Maybe you count me as a defender? I don't know. I'm disgusted and embarrassed and partially just disillusioned.

I personally think that Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe mostly got it right. We had a great team. Our playoff failure was down to a few things.... mostly a lack of Matthews and Marner stepping up when we needed them most. One goal in game five or six, and we would have moved on. Marner in particular wasn't very good. That isn't on management... these are elite players, who excel on a regular basis... but just not in the playoffs. It's up to management to decide, if we need to make a change in players, or if hiring sports psychologists, to get them over the hump in the playoffs is the answer.

These players let everyone else, including management down.

We were such a small margin away from getting through... of course Tavares going down didn't help, but we were good enough to beat Montreal without him.. and should have.

Have you ever considered da fact that Matty and Mitch gave everything they had but flat out just don't have playoff skills to get it done irrespective of opponent????? You keep clinging onto hope they can UP their speed and power for playoff hockey .. when do you get to point where you realize they don't have those skills?????

 

[francis246]

Marner's contract is a dream for a lot of owners

Great age, young so he's marketable, his cap hit is high but his salary after we pay his signing bonus is 6.2M and he was top 5 point producer in the league.

You can find 20 teams interested.

I don;t doubt you can find 20 teams. What will the return be? You also have to make the salary cap work, which means we are going to have to take salary back and God know's what contracts we'd have to take on to make a deal work. Marner has value but I don't think trading him is going to put this team in a position to be anything closer to winning.

It would have to be some sort of star for star deal and I just don't see that out there right now. Marner is miles better than Jones and Jones isn't even locked up so we shouldn't be entertaining that unless it's a sign and trade. Eichel for Marner? Maybe but will Buffalo do that? I'm not sure they would.

Any other deal really is the leafs taking on futures and banking that you can sign a UFA in the future with the cap space. So yes you'd def be taking a step back in that sense by trading Marner

 

[WTFMAN99]

I like Willy and think he was very good in the playoffs. But I do find his shot overrated. He has a pretty slow release and doesn't have great accuracy or shot placement. He scores the vast amount of his goals from right in front of the net. I thought Galchenyuk was going to be that guy but he also seems to struggle with accuracy in his limited time with the Leafs. We could use a, dare I say it, Cole Caufield.

I did a Capfriendly in the armchair GM but I feel like some version of that or even this could be good;

Saad-Matthews-88
Robertson/Galchenyuk-JT-Marner
Goodrow-Engvall-Coleman
Brooks-Spezza-Perry
Gagner or Paquette for depth D

That's a solid starting line up.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The right GM would get a good return for any of the core. The current GM? Not so much.

I like the trades Dubas has made myself.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don;t doubt you can find 20 teams. What will the return be? You also have to make the salary cap work, which means we are going to have to take salary back and God know's what contracts we'd have to take on to make a deal work. Marner has value but I don't think trading him is going to put this team in a position to be anything closer to winning.

It would have to be some sort of star for star deal and I just don't see that out there right now. Marner is miles better than Jones and Jones isn't even locked up so we shouldn't be entertaining that unless it's a sign and trade. Eichel for Marner? Maybe but will Buffalo do that? I'm not sure they would.

Any other deal really is the leafs taking on futures and banking that you can sign a UFA in the future with the cap space. So yes you'd def be taking a step back in that sense by trading Marner

You'll have to take a contract back but if the contract fills a need such as 2-way 3C, that's fine.

I said it in other threads but star players leave, teams survive.

Isles did fine without JT

Nashville saw Hamhuis and Suter walk for nothing. Also in hinsight, smarter to keep Weber over Subban. That's 3 top pairing defenseman.

Boston traded a prime Lucic. They went back to a SCF.

 

[ToneDog]

I said in another post that I don't think you can have an inexperienced GM & inexperienced Coach with a young team. So if Shanny thinks KD is the guy, he should be paired with an experienced coach. Too much on the job learning if you have the GM, Coach, and star players all gaining experience at the same time.

You mean like Mike Babcock ?? Seriously should have pounced on coach Q when he was available but hey Dubas prefers his coach.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Shanahan lost the plot yesterday when he said "I realize the fans are disappointed but............".

At the end of the day what the paying fans think is all that matters because without paying fans you have no team. Paying fans are in effect stakeholders of this team and when you piss them off the $ go away.

The entitlement culture around the Leafs is so pernicious it's unbelievable. That's driven by a big market mentality where revenues are taken for granted.