Shanahan Post Season Presser

[hotpaws]

this franchise is a rudderless ship drifting towards the abyss

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Absolutely! I'm so sick of losing with these guys, it's fun to imagine trading not just Marnerbut Matthews as well and coming back next season with a completely new look.

Mixed feelings on this. I'm a huge Dubas fan, I think he's super smart and I think most of the moves he's made have been good ones. However, if he's stubbornly married to this core no matter what, that's a big problem. If his stance in private is that we won't consider moving even one of the big four, I'd start looking for a new GM.

Life is short, NHL careers are even shorter. Winning the cup is hard and there are a lot of good teams out there trying to win just like we are. Every year you throw away is huge and this season with the easiest road ever to the semis, pissing away that opportunity was giganormous.

I'd love to ask Dubas - do you stick with these guys forever no matter what? If you don't get past the first round for another year, two, three ... is there any point at all when you start to consider going in a different direction?

Must be nice to be Marner. Every time you fail you hear your boss talk about how good you are and how confident he is that you'll get it right eventually ...

It is such a tricky situation to be in. A group of star players that don't get the job done but are also the type of players that will bite you in the ass after you trade them.

 

[The Masters]

It was said on the radio today and I agree with it - Morgan Reilly was very impressive in his presser. Intelligent thought and understands it.

Not like Matthews and Marner. These guys just dont get it

 

[Superstar]

The thing that’s concerning is the two come backs came from the work of Muzzin, Brodie, Spezza and Galchenyuk. Just if we are so married to the core you’d want to see their fingerprints on those efforts because any one goal or combination of assist or goal from Matthews or Marner fighting through would have sent the team to the second round.

The other thing about “learning” is younger guys like Kotkaniemi and Suzuki are getting big game breakthrough experience on a nightly basis now. If Marner’s comparisons like Point and Rantanen and Aho are already established playoff performers and the next crop is ready to make a dent, the core really needs to understand that their legacies in the game aren’t a given.

For every Ovechkin or Yzerman that broke through with enough patience and won a cup there’s a Thornton, Spezza and Marleau who didn’t. And guys like Kovalchuk and Heatley who looked like the future of the game but lost their place fairly quickly. Time is ticking.

Highest paid winger after ELC though...that must be worth something...

 

[sparxx87]

We need Amirov to be another Nylander. For example.

That would be huge for them.

Would have been nice to grab one of the top 20-25 18 year olds this year, too. Would be great to add another potential top 4 d or top 2 centre to the prospect pool that could play in another year or two.

I’m still entirely unconvinced Dubas has drafted as well as some believe.

 

[All Mod Cons]

The f***ing irony of it all, is we're going to lose Hyman for nothing. which is absolutely catastrophic.

 

[All Mod Cons]

It was said on the radio today and I agree with it - Morgan Reilly was very impressive in his presser. Intelligent thought and understands it.

Not like Matthews and Marner. These guys just dont get it

Reilly should be the captain. I'd completely understand if he wants to walk into free agency though.

 

[sparxx87]

It is such a tricky situation to be in. A group of star players that don't get the job done but are also the type of players that will bite you in the ass after you trade them.

It’s the contracts.

If they were paid like MacKinnon, Point, Barzal etc, the question would be how to support them.

...unfortunate that their own greed and Dubas’ foolishness in signing the deals thats completely changing the conversation.

 

[RoadWarrior]

The f***ing irony of it all, is we're going to lose Hyman for nothing. which is absolutely catastrophic.

It's the Muskoka 5 all over again (Dubas, Marner, Matthews, Keefe, Shanahan).

One or more of these people needs to leave the organization for progress to be made.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Reilly should be the captain. I'd completely understand if he wants to walk into free agency though.

He probably should leave. He knows that no progress will be made with the leafs until major changes are made at the top.

 

[Trapper]

The fans might be tough on the team but the media sure wasn't. Did Dubas say he would bet his job that Leafs would go further in the playoffs this year? Not one reporter took him to task. I was around that situation way back when and it was disgusting how most reporters were just hockey groupies with stars in their eyes. They loved hanging out with the team and socializing with them. They knew one bad word and they would be out.

I wish they did too.
So last year you bet your career on this core.
And your 11 million winger is either not engaged or not ready (his words). How does that make you feel and what is the timeline for betting your career on this core. How many tries to get it right?
Say they do win one round at some point. Is that their Cup? Good enough.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Blah blah blah blah... Same old bs. Looks like he's desperate to keep his job.

Could not have said it better myself .. oh well it will all be over next spring when team misses playoffs .. i guess the blood letting will occur then .. maybe it is delayed for 1 year

 

[RoadWarrior]

I know we've all got our pitchforks and torches out and want to see heads on pikes. But I'm not into the whole self-flagellation thing (which Dubas loves to do and did again in his press conference this year).

Dubas has made mistakes, no doubt, but you can see what he was trying to do. For years it was the defense that was the problem. He tried to address this by moving Kadri for Brodie last year, then went to Plan B with Barrie when Kadri blocked the trade. When that failed, he went back to Brodie, who turned out to be exactly what we needed. Supplemented the D corps with Bogosian, who really solidified the bottom pairing and checked a lot of boxes (consistency, physicality/grit, experience, affordable contract). The defense this year was markedly improved in the regular season and throughout the series with Montreal to the point that nobody even really complains about it at all anymore.

We lacked important intangible qualities like "killer extinct," leadership, playoff experience. So he added Thornton, Simmonds, brought back Spezza, doubled down with Foligno at the deadline. It failed, but you can see the logic.

We're all complaining now that the cap allocation means we can't surround the core with adequate depth. But not 2 weeks ago, most of us were celebrating how crazy good our depth was and lamenting that guys like Galchenyuk and Brooks were getting pushed out of the lineup not because they weren't good enough but because we had too many good options!

I'm left to conclude that those intangible qualities that made the difference between winning and losing this year have to come from the core group. We can't graft them on by giving out league minimum contracts to veterans. I'd like to see the supporting roles filled with hungry younger players who bring speed, tenacity, finish their checks and are just generally a pain in the ass to play against.

The D still needs work. The fact they were forced to use an inexperienced Dermott and Sandin in critical situations tells you they still lack depth as well as a minute muncher on the second pairing. I'm still not completely comfortable with Holl getting close to 20 minutes a night. It's better than it was before but not good enough for a championship team. The biggest need on D is a guy who can rip it from the point on the PP. That's a critical missing piece.

Until they address the "core" and even the coaching then nothing will change.

 

[ToneDog]

Simmons has been a slime he was pretty much the only guy who put Shanny in the hot seat when Shanny said history shows that we can get it done to which Simmons replied that there has never been a team that has lost 5 consecutive first round series and went on to win the cup.
Shanny paused and responded with "oh" and then said well no team had ever won with a Swedish captain until it happened.

 

[Stephen]

That would be huge for them.

Would have been nice to grab one of the top 20-25 18 year olds this year, too. Would be great to add another potential top 4 d or top 2 centre to the prospect pool that could play in another year or two.

I’m still entirely unconvinced Dubas has drafted as well as some believe.

I’m not sure if Dubas has drafted well. He could be extracting pretty good players out of the draft as individual prospects and still be doing a bad job drafting and building a functional program.

Reason I say this is because I look at a lot of the smaller skilled defensemen he drafts in volume as an example of bad organizational planning. All well and good if you find one special Sam Girard who can come in and QB your PP, but if you didn’t hit a home run, what is the path to the NHL for an entire class of 5’9” to 5’10” defenders when you already have blue chip Sandin slowly easing into the NHL? And once they get there, how are they going to help with any of the big clubs issues?

People will counter and say “you don’t draft for need”. That’s true. But when is an organization going to develop and promote a blueline that looks like Hollowell, Niemela, Rindell, Koster, Kokkonen, Fusco? How is Semyon Der Arguchinsev help Mitch Marner’s issues?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

The f***ing irony of it all, is we're going to lose Hyman for nothing. which is absolutely catastrophic.

And Andersen, and Reilly.... until one of the top 4's salary cap is reallocated.

 

[Trapper]

this franchise is a rudderless ship drifting towards the abyss

You’ve got to admire Boston even as rivals.
They don’t compromise, they keep identity and no one is bigger than the team.

Not Kessel,Thornton,Seguin,Hamilton, no one. Accountability.

I really thought Shanahan was going to create that type of identity. Blue collar with skill, hard work, etc.
Nope. Looking for compete, looking for killer instinct, looking for intensity.

 

[ToneDog]

He probably should leave. He knows that no progress will be made with the leafs until major changes are made at the top.

Rielly has regressed from the Rielly of 2019. Time to move him if you can sign Hamilton for around $7m AAV or another competent UFA dman for less than Rielly's cap hit (not sure if Larsson or Vatanen could be that dman).

Mike Reilly might be somebody worth looking at but not sure he is close enough to Morgan.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Agreed, but Keefe needs to be included at the top of the list.

He needs to be fired. You cannot win with him.

Agreed. Keefe wasn't hired to coach. He hasn't even been given the authority to bench key players or break up the first line.

He's basically there to run messages between Matthews and Dubas.

 

[mydnyte]

Caps also stole both Carlson and Kuznetsov late in the first round while they were still a good team.

Dubas keeps trading 1st round picks to fix his cap problems.

he did that ONE time, Marleau, else he didnt have the cap space to sign Marner/Matthews

 

[57 Years No Cup]

You’ve got to admire Boston even as rivals.
They don’t compromise, they keep identity and no one is bigger than the team.

Not Kessel,Thornton,Seguin,Hamilton, no one. Accountability.

I really thought Shanahan was going to create that type of identity. Blue collar with skill, hard work, etc.
Nope. Looking for compete, looking for killer instinct, looking for intensity.

MLSE isn't interested. Instead, they want to showcase their diversity, inclusiveness, equity, and Participation Trophies....we'll have none of that competitive toxic masculinity here!

 

[killer1980]

Could not have said it better myself .. oh well it will all be over next spring when team misses playoffs .. i guess the blood letting will occur then .. maybe it is delayed for 1 year

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that will never happen. Dubas seems to be some sort of Svengali. He has Leaf management (and quite a few posters here) under his spell. The fact of the matter is, any way you look at it, the team has regressed under his leadership. From not making the playoffs last year to losing to the 18th ranked team in the NHL this year, it boggles the mind that he hasn't been held accountable.

 

[ToneDog]

You’ve got to admire Boston even as rivals.
They don’t compromise, they keep identity and no one is bigger than the team.

Not Kessel,Thornton,Seguin,Hamilton, no one. Accountability.

I really thought Shanahan was going to create that type of identity. Blue collar with skill, hard work, etc.
Nope. Looking for compete, looking for killer instinct, looking for intensity.

Lou's Leafs exceeded expectations for 2 playoffs. Dubas' Leafs have collapsed 3 straight years. The turning point in our rebuild was Shammy's decision to hire Blunder Boy and let Lou go. Playoff results are what teams are measured by and Dubas comes up short. Sorry.

 

[Trapper]

Simmons has been a slime he was pretty much the only guy who put Shanny in the hot seat when Shanny said history shows that we can get it done to which Simmons replied that there has never been a team that has lost 5 consecutive first round series and went on to win the cup.
Shanny paused and responded with "oh" and then said well no team had ever won with a Swedish captain until it happened.

So are we getting a Swedish Captain then?
How about at the very least you strip the A off Marner and give it to Willy.

Maybe when Marner works on his core, his shot and his intensity it won’t be so heavy to wear.

Even then, just because someone finally wins doesn’t mean everyone will.
Prime example, Thornton/Marleau. How many Cups?
Are Matthews/Marner Toews/Kane or Thornton/Marleau.

 

[sparxx87]

he did that ONE time, Marleau, else he didnt have the cap space to sign Marner/Matthews

No, he signed Tavares which changed his entire cap structure and forced him to move money to keep the inflated Marner and Matthews contracts.

He didn’t have the cap space to add Foligno for the full year so waited and used draft picks for teams to retain and put band aids on their problems.