Shanahan Post Season Presser

[acrobaticgoalie]

I just listened to the Shanny presser. I get that he's going to be very political with answers and try to protect his players and staff but I wish that he would show a little more anger with how the results have gone 5 yrs in a row and be more honest with his assessment. Like he said he was happy with the team's effort and the players desire to win. WTF? The team didn't start skating till the 3rd periods in games 5 and 6 when we needed to close out the series. Especially knowing MTL was gonna have fans for game 6. They were also doing Fly by's at most opportunities instead of finishing their checks in the playoffs where grinding down your opponent is most important. Plus our 2 best players making 11M were no shows in the last 3 games in low scoring games when we needed a goal.

Our best forwards were Nylander, Spezza and Kerfoot. 2 of those guys are the ones that get ragged on the most by this fan base the last few years.

 

[sparxx87]

I gave Shanahan wayyyy too much credit early on. He’s not nearly as smart as I thought and is either a politician or just as dumb as the GM and all the fans who endorse them.

This organization continues to be a laughing stock.

 

[ACC1224]

His first question was How come your big guns keep coming up empty in the biggest games year after year? Shanny basically just said that throughout history you've had lots of superstars that went through growing pains and the team would hold onto them and keep building around them and eventually they figure it out.

The 2nd question was more of a statement in saying that "I dont know where you get your history from but no team that I know has lost in the 1st round 5 yrs in a row and then went on to win a Stanley cup". His answer was that people used to always say you can't win with a European captain or you can't win with Russians and then they go on to win a Stanley cup. Which was actually a pretty good comeback.

I hate Simmons but his questions were very valid criticisms that we are all thinking.

Thanks.

 

[ShaneFalco]

"I'll say this about our top four: I think any team would love to have any one of them," Shanahan said. "But we like them, we want them here. They're special players. They're all deeply, deeply committed here to win in Toronto."

How do you even say that without wanting to throw up? They show no desire to compete in the big games. The crumble and fold. No fight, no passion and this is now ok in Leaf land

 

[WTFMAN99]

He did a good job early on in changing things over but it's over, time to hand the keys to someone else.

I have no confidence in Shanahan, Dubas or Keefe to do their jobs.

 

[Trapper]

Shanahan did a great job in terms of resetting the Maple Leafs, fixing the logo, mending fences with old players, designing a corporate hierarchy, etc.

But building the actual team, blue collar, skill, compete, etc. No.
you will get your Regular season flashy and fun. But if you want deep meaning and championship, no.

 

[sparxx87]

"I'll say this about our top four: I think any team would love to have any one of them," Shanahan said. "But we like them, we want them here. They're special players. They're all deeply, deeply committed here to win in Toronto."

How do you even say that without wanting to throw up? They show no desire to compete in the big games. The crumble and fold. No fight, no passion and this is now ok in Leaf land

Someone should have asked why none of them committed long term and all wanted max money on shorter deals? That doesn’t indicate deep commitment for me but I guess time will tell.

3 years until Matthews is UFA.

 

[egd27]

When Freddie let a soft one in game 7 against Boston, folks also got over it. It's when he did it for the second year in a row in a decider, against CBJ, that folks got ticked.

Well let's hope for Jack's sake he doesn't let another soft one in at a crucial time.

* just so I'm clear, the Freddie games you refer to were the ones where the Leafs scored one and zero goals respectively?

** I am not criticizing or blaming Campbell, I thought he was great. Just pointing out how 2 almost identical stat lines are interpreted differently based on preconceptions

 

[Mentat]

"I'll say this about our top four: I think any team would love to have any one of them," Shanahan said. "But we like them, we want them here. They're special players. They're all deeply, deeply committed here to win in Toronto."

How do you even say that without wanting to throw up? They show no desire to compete in the big games. The crumble and fold. No fight, no passion and this is now ok in Leaf land

Indeed.
And to me, even worst than that, is the "we want our top four here". After multiple seasons of hard choking, he needed to send a message to the players and the fans. Nobody is off the board, if it fits our plans going forward.

Hockey is a sport and also a business, and we have been failing hard on both accounts. The MLSE needs to stop simping for players that are getting us nowhere, time after time. What he have been doing for the last 3/4 years is not working.
Time to change.

 

[francis246]

I just listened to the Shanny presser. I get that he's going to be very political with answers and try to protect his players and staff but I wish that he would show a little more anger with how the results have gone 5 yrs in a row and be more honest with his assessment. Like he said he was happy with the team's effort and the players desire to win. WTF? The team didn't start skating till the 3rd periods in games 5 and 6 when we needed to close out the series. Especially knowing MTL was gonna have fans for game 6. They were also doing Fly by's at most opportunities instead of finishing their checks in the playoffs where grinding down your opponent is most important. Plus our 2 best players making 11M were no shows in the last 3 games in low scoring games when we needed a goal.

Our best forwards were Nylander, Spezza and Kerfoot. 2 of those guys are the ones that get ragged on the most by this fan base the last few years.

I def think behind closed doors the players got reamed out. Again it’s a tactic, you don’t want to throw your players under the bus publically. In this day an age players will want to leave because of that. You have to walk the line

 

[Captain14]

If they are really intending on doing nothing and heading into next year with the same losing culture in place, then I am praying they miss the playoffs entirely next season. Not just miss them by a few points, miss them by a lot.
Maybe that would be the catalyst for change.

 

[francis246]

"I'll say this about our top four: I think any team would love to have any one of them," Shanahan said. "But we like them, we want them here. They're special players. They're all deeply, deeply committed here to win in Toronto."

How do you even say that without wanting to throw up? They show no desire to compete in the big games. The crumble and fold. No fight, no passion and this is now ok in Leaf land

I think this is true, you can tell they want to win. I’m not defending them but they f***ed up. This was a huge f*** up on all accounts but Shanny is right. You don’t trade the core 4. You keep going back at it and trying it. Washington did the same thing, they kept most of the core and made a few changes around it. I know Washington got past the first round but the premise is the same. You keep going back to your star players, eventually they will get it done.

I can admit I was very emotional and shocked after the loss but after calming down, I’ve realized trading Marner would be a huge mistake

 

[socko]

"I'll say this about our top four: I think any team would love to have any one of them," Shanahan said. "But we like them, we want them here. They're special players. They're all deeply, deeply committed here to win in Toronto."

How do you even say that without wanting to throw up? They show no desire to compete in the big games. The crumble and fold. No fight, no passion and this is now ok in Leaf land

The only people you have to worry about in Toronto are the fans. Dubas will never get mad at you, it will never be your fault, do you need a raise? And the fans are pretty forgiving too, they usually pick a whipping boy or two and it's never the highly paid stars, its usually someone who doesn't deserve it. So it's a pretty good gig for an overpaid star. None of them will be remembered with the fondness of Gilmour or Clark but then do they really care? They got paid.

 

[francis246]

If they are really intending on doing nothing and heading into next year with the same losing culture in place, then I am praying they miss the playoffs entirely next season. Not just miss them by a few points, miss them by a lot.
Maybe that would be the catalyst for change.

who exactly do you think they should trade? Is it worth not getting fair value for? No it’s not. You cannot trade one of the big four. You have to change the players around them. There are some good players available in UFA. Get the RIGHT GUYS AROUND THEM. Joe Thornton wasn’t it.

 

[Trapper]

who exactly do you think they should trade? Is it worth not getting fair value for? No it’s not. You cannot trade one of the big four. You have to change the players around them. There are some good players available in UFA. Get the RIGHT GUYS AROUND THEM. Joe Thornton wasn’t it.

Damn those players around the core costing us every 1st round and letting Montreal trick us into playing Thornton to lose.
Very wily.

 

[Gary Nylund]

who exactly do you think they should trade? Is it worth not getting fair value for? No it’s not. You cannot trade one of the big four. You have to change the players around them. There are some good players available in UFA. Get the RIGHT GUYS AROUND THEM. Joe Thornton wasn’t it.

You're stating your opinions as if they were facts. You say we cannot trade one of the big four, why is that? You're assuming we won't get fair value in return, why is that?

 

[ShaneFalco]

who exactly do you think they should trade? Is it worth not getting fair value for? No it’s not. You cannot trade one of the big four. You have to change the players around them. There are some good players available in UFA. Get the RIGHT GUYS AROUND THEM. Joe Thornton wasn’t it.

Get the right guys around them - because they don;'t have the leadership, grit, desire, compete level. So fill out the rest of your roster with guys who can hold their hand.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I def think behind closed doors the players got reamed out. Again it’s a tactic, you don’t want to throw your players under the bus publically. In this day an age players will want to leave because of that. You have to walk the line

Might be right. All we can do is speculate and have no idea what happens behind the scenes unless stuff gets leaked. I just didn't like the fact that you can publicly say you were happy with the effort and the players desire to win when we, the fans aren't blind and can see anything but.

 

[swint]

I think this is true, you can tell they want to win. I’m not defending them but they f***ed up. This was a huge f*** up on all accounts but Shanny is right. You don’t trade the core 4. You keep going back at it and trying it. Washington did the same thing, they kept most of the core and made a few changes around it. I know Washington got past the first round but the premise is the same. You keep going back to your star players, eventually they will get it done.

I can admit I was very emotional and shocked after the loss but after calming down, I’ve realized trading Marner would be a huge mistake

I’m in the exact same boat. I was livid with our star players after the game 7 loss, but I’ve calmed down and realized that if we’re going to win anything, these are going to be the guys to get it done.

I am, however, extremely disappointed in the fact that I was led to believe players like Simmonds, Thornton, and Foligno all have an “extra gear” in the playoffs. These guys, along with Engvall, Mikheyev, and Nash were dead weight, and the overall downfall of this team.

Did Marner and Matthews produce to the degree we expected them to? Hell no. But they hustled, generated offense, and were great defensively. Our 3rd and 4th lines were comprised of passengers once again, and you can’t win like that.

 

[francis246]

You're stating your opinions as if they were facts. You say we cannot trade one of the big four, why is that? You're assuming we won't get fair value in return, why is that?

okay give me a scenario that makes sense? People here are saying trade the big four out of emotion. There is no trade that makes you better at this moment. Also Shanahan is right, you keep your best players. Prior to the playoffs everyone was raving about how much we love these guys. It’s all emotion right now.

 

[All Mod Cons]

"I'll say this about our top four: I think any team would love to have any one of them," Shanahan said. "But we like them, we want them here. They're special players. They're all deeply, deeply committed here to win in Toronto."

How do you even say that without wanting to throw up? They show no desire to compete in the big games. The crumble and fold. No fight, no passion and this is now ok in Leaf land

I agree that any team would like one of them. In fact, I'd like two of them on my team - Matthews and Nylander.

Problem is, we have all 4 of them.

 

[francis246]

Might be right. All we can do is speculate and have no idea what happens behind the scenes unless stuff gets leaked. I just didn't like the fact that you can publicly say you were happy with the effort and the players desire to win when we, the fans aren't blind and can see anything but.

agreed! It’s infuriating to us as fans but I think we also have to acknowledge that Shanny has to be political about how he speaks about the players. We know they are a very fragile group so you have to use a different approach with them (whether we like it or not, that is our reality)

 

[Captain14]

who exactly do you think they should trade? Is it worth not getting fair value for? No it’s not. You cannot trade one of the big four. You have to change the players around them. There are some good players available in UFA. Get the RIGHT GUYS AROUND THEM. Joe Thornton wasn’t it.

We are way too front heavy with all that money paid to four forwards.
That is why our bottom six are all basically making the league minimum!
You will never fill out the bottom six with decent players, you will get Soupy, Engvall, Thornton, Simmonds, etc...
The culture is broken, they do not and will not play the heavy, hard on the puck style that is required to win playoff games.
Haven’t you been watching the other playoff games?
If you have, you can’t tell me that you honestly believe we fit in with those teams.

 

[Garthinater]

I think this is true, you can tell they want to win. I’m not defending them but they f***ed up. This was a huge f*** up on all accounts but Shanny is right. You don’t trade the core 4. You keep going back at it and trying it. Washington did the same thing, they kept most of the core and made a few changes around it. I know Washington got past the first round but the premise is the same. You keep going back to your star players, eventually they will get it done.

I can admit I was very emotional and shocked after the loss but after calming down, I’ve realized trading Marner would be a huge mistake

Washington's core at the beginning;
Ovi
Backstrom
Semin
Green

Their core when they won:
Ovy
Backstrom
Kuzy
Carlsson

The caps literally traded 2 of their core players before they won the cup. Following their model would actually require we trade 2 of our core.

 

[francis246]

Get the right guys around them - because they don;'t have the leadership, grit, desire, compete level. So fill out the rest of your roster with guys who can hold their hand.

no fill out the roster with players who can provide leadership but actually f***ing play. The Joe Thornton signing was so stupid. There were better players out there who signed a similar contract

As much as I love Wayne Simmonds and him being a black player and representing that for Toronto. We had Corey Perry sitting there who by reports wanted to be a Maple Leaf as well and he’s a much more effective player