Rumor: Seravalli: Rangers been all over JT Miller

[LionsHeart]

2022 1st round pick
Vitali Kravtsov
Zac Jones
2022 2nd round pick

Think that's a deal that could very well be worth it for both sides.

I actually think this is fair. Kravstov is a talented kid that could use a fresh start, Jones is a solid defensive prospect, and the Canucks get some draft capital.

 

[surlysailor]

I would think the deal would be similar to when NYR traded for Yandle who had 1 1/2 years on his deal. So I would say:
conditional 1,
2nd round pick (better of the NYR or STL pick)
Jones/Lundkvist = Duclair
Chytil/Barron/Gauthier=Moore

 

[Boondock]

fine
ny will keep its currency and depth

It isn't Canuck fans wanting Miller traded to NY. It's a hockey insider stating NY is all over Miller. Your use of absolutes makes it seem like you think you're a lot more important than a fan with a computer and an irrational love for Broberg and a bizarre infatuation with Kravtsov playing C.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Not moving Othmann for 1.5 years of JT when they team isnt ready to truely compete. Maybe if this were year 3 of naking playoffs and the youngsters were more experienced.

 

[Bevans]

Just watch the games.

Brilliant.

 

[Boondock]

Based on the Canucks forum, where some of y'all think you're getting Lafreniere/Schneider and a first, I'm sure there would be plenty of disappointment to go around if/when a hypothetical trade was made.

Every fan base has its people that have no actual clue - like the NYR poster that suggested Miller @50% + a 3rd might get Lundqvist. See lack of intelligence everywhere you look.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Not moving Othmann for 1.5 years of JT when they team isnt ready to truely compete. Maybe if this were year 3 of naking playoffs and the youngsters were more experienced.

Setting Othmann aside and focusing only on the bold.

That's one way of looking at it, but I'm not sure the players, coach and GM necessarily see it the same way. They are currently one of the top teams in the east, and will have a lot of turn-over after this season due to cap constraints. They may think this is a year they want to make a push.

I'm not suggesting the Rangers give up their top prospects. I'm only saying that the team may not think they are still a few years away.

 

[BCNate]

Take that last line out and it's a very good offer that would be hard to beat.

That does nothing for the Canucks, at all.
-Later first is fine
-We need Centres, not wingers. Kravstov does not move the needle here.
-We have no need for another small offensive left handed D. Jones adds very little .

Regardless of the value here, if the Canucks are dealing their best player, who is on a steal of a deal, they will be looking to fill needs. Half the league will be in on JT Miller if he hits the market, and most offers will beat this.

Of course this a great deal for the Rangers, but at least try to look at the Canucks needs as well.

 

[Peter Griffin]

In fairness, he had 53 points the year before the trade and had 41 (in 63 games) in the year of the trade. He was still considered a top end PMD. He was never viewed as good defensively.

In those 2 seasons, he had 105 points, which was the 5th most points combined of any defenseman in the NHL. Karlsson, Subban, Burns, and Keith were the only ones with more points in those 2 seasons combined.

He was basically 2017/18 Tyson Barrie. A guy that can be an asset to organization but not someone you want your defense built around.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

You are pretty close, but I don't think we need to add a 4th asset & it certainly wouldn't be Othmann.

Zac Jones does nothing for us. Who does he replace? We have OEL and Hughes on the Left side, and he isn't beating out Rathbone....ever.

Could Kakko be available?


Kakko/Othmann/Kravstov + Lundqvist + 2022 1st for Miller 50% retained

Lundqvist wouldn't be our main target RHD, but he does look like he will have a good career, and could do well with OEL.

Hughes looks good no matter who his partner is and Myers has been playing pretty good for us since Boudreau took over.

We could also look to deal Boeser for another RHD option.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Zac Jones does nothing for us. Who does he replace? We have OEL and Hughes on the Left side, and he isn't beating out Rathbone....ever.

Could Kakko be available?


Kakko/Othmann/Kravstov + Lundqvist + 2022 1st for Miller 50% retained

Lundqvist wouldn't be our main target RHD, but he does look like he will have a good career, and could do well with OEL.

Hughes looks good no matter who his partner is and Myers has been playing pretty good for us since Boudreau took over.

We could also look to deal Boeser for another RHD option.

I agree Lundkvist would probably be the ask over Jones, but you're dreaming if you think Kakko is available. He wasn't for Eichel, he isn't for Miller.

Realistically it's more like Kravtsov + Lundkvist & our '22 1st rounder.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Zac Jones does nothing for us. Who does he replace? We have OEL and Hughes on the Left side, and he isn't beating out Rathbone....ever.

Could Kakko be available?


Kakko/Othmann/Kravstov + Lundqvist + 2022 1st for Miller 50% retained

Lundqvist wouldn't be our main target RHD, but he does look like he will have a good career, and could do well with OEL.

Hughes looks good no matter who his partner is and Myers has been playing pretty good for us since Boudreau took over.

We could also look to deal Boeser for another RHD option.

Zero chance Kakko can be included, many reasons, most of which is the organizational weakness at the RW position.

 

[Boondock]

Rangers aren't trading for a 1c. They're trading for a 2C or a 1RW.

If Rangers want to make a splash and only give up 1 main piece it'll most likely be Kakko. I don't see a bright future here and he'll be another teams problem. If Rangers want to give up a package it'll be a 1st, a prospect and player. But it won't be Schneider. It'll be Jones, Lunkvist or Roberston. Maybe Chytil or Kravtsov. Othmann has summer plans with us so he won't be included. Maybe Cuylle but I don't it. He's been real impressive. We aren't asking for 50% off.

I would think this would be the most important piece to be honest. It would be similar to TB over paying for the low cap hit on Goodrow and Coleman. Miller at 50% isn't a need this year, but next season when Strome leaves Miller can come in and play top 6 C and hopefully produce at a ppg level for $2.75 cap hit. Next year the 50% allows the team to maintain their momentum and the development of their younger players.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

That does nothing for the Canucks, at all.
-Later first is fine
-We need Centres, not wingers. Kravstov does not move the needle here.
-We have no need for another small offensive left handed D. Jones adds very little .

Regardless of the value here, if the Canucks are dealing their best player, who is on a steal of a deal, they will be looking to fill needs. Half the league will be in on JT Miller if he hits the market, and most offers will beat this.

Of course this a great deal for the Rangers, but at least try to look at the Canucks needs as well.

I think you’re expecting a later 1st, a center that projects to be of 2nd line center or better plus more you’re going to be disappointed, regardless of any bidding war.

We will see but the Rangers offer is a haul even if it doesn’t fit the needs. You have Peterson and Horvat as your top two centers anyway

 

[Peter Griffin]

Take that last line out and it's a very good offer that would be hard to beat.

That wouldn’t be a hard offer to beat for half the teams in the league.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

He was basically 2017/18 Tyson Barrie. A guy that can be an asset to organization but not someone you want your defense built around.

Very True, but JT Miller is also an asset to a team, but not someone you build your offense around. Over last season and this one (91 games), Miller is 81st in the NHL in 5v5 scoring.

Over that same stretch, at 5v5 Among forwards with more than 700 min TOI:
- His point total is 77th in the NHL
- His goal total is 145th in the NHL
- his CF% is 231st in the NHL
- his GF% is 161st in the NHL
- his xGF% is 245th in the NHL

Clearly the team and system come into play on those stats to some extent (particularly possession stats), so they are by no means a "be all, end all", but where Miller has excelled last season and this seasons is the PP where he is 8th in the NHL in scoring (for forwards with over 200 min TOI on the PP).

He's definitely an asset to a team. He can play wing or C. He's got size. He is definitely a weapon on the PP, but he's not someone you would build your offense around either, which is fine, because the type of team acquiring him isn't looking to build their offense around him. They are looking at him as a complementary piece to hopefully push them over the top.

 

[Boondock]

Then trade him to someone who can re-sign him. Or ask yourself why you've been trying to trade him all season. The Rangers have the 3rd best PK in the league. They have the 10th best power play. Why would they disrupt either unit?

It's too much, in part, because the Rangers have NO cap room next season. Strome will have to walk regardless of whether or not we bring in someone at the deadline (unless he takes a pay cut, which would be absurd as he's earned a raise). Chytil is our only cost-controlled center with top six upside. He's been blocked by Zib and Strome pretty much since he's been here. He's a player I 100% expect to break out once he starts getting regular playing time with top six players. So it baffles me that they would bring in ANOTHER player to block him (especially since we wouldn't be able to re-sign him after next year due to the cap crunch).

It's too much because Schneider is a key building block on the right side of our defense, and the player that will let us move on from Trouba at some point, freeing up that cap space.

It's too much because the Rangers aren't really a threat to win the Cup this season. Half the team isn't finished with puberty yet, and only a couple of guys have even experienced playoff hockey (and it was years ago for those guys).

It's too much because we don't need a #1 center. We have one. He's better than Miller. We don't even need a second line center in the short term. Strome is fine, and has great chemistry with Panarin. We need young, cost controlled centers. After Chytil, we literally don't have any in the system. So trading Chytil and our 1st to bring in a guy who won't make us any more likely to win the Cup this year or next is a waste of assets.

It's too much because the Rangers, as a franchise, put a priority on character. They took a loss on DeAngelo because of character. They walked away from Nik Zherdev because of character. They walked away from Avery because of character. And they already traded Miller once because of character. Miller then had issues in Tampa and in Vancouver.

You joke about how we think he's "their version of JTM." Look at the production rate for Miller's last two seasons with the Rangers. They are very close to what he's done with Vancouver. The difference is that Vancouver plays him 4+ more minutes per game. He wouldn't get those kinds of minutes on the Rangers. They aren't breaking up Zib/Kreider or Strome/Zibanejad, which leaves 3rd line use and 2nd unit power play time. Why pay top dollar for a player who won't get used enough to justify it?

And again, I go back to my Yandle parallel--both players the same age, in key positions, in that "very good but not elite" category of player. Yandle brought back a 1st, a 2nd, a former 3rd round pick who had just cracked the NHL roster, and a journeyman defenseman. Chytil and Schneider each have more value than any of those pieces. And Yandle didn't have a persistent reputation as a locker room cancer dragging him down.

Thats a real long post just to say, you only watch the Rangers and you have a bunch of persoinal opinions that you are stating as facts.

 

[Flan the incredible]

Duchene trade of 2017 maybe came close. And that ended up being an absolute disaster for both Nashville and Ottawa in the end.

IIRC, it was:

1st round pick from OTT (which at the time was thought to be mid round and became 4th OA)
Shane Bowers from OTT (2017 1st round pick, 28OA) in the draft that just occurred.
Sam Girard (2016 2nd round pick, 47OA) - from NSH
Kamenov (2014 2nd round pick, 42OA) - from NSH
2nd round pick - from NSH
3rd round pick - from OTT

Ottawa was desperate after coming off a ECF appearance and wanting to keep Stone and Karlsson. If the Canucks can find a desperate GM, they might be able to extract a large return. Miller is better now than Duchene.

I don't see teams like Carolina and NYR , who are currently on 120+ and 110+ point paces for the season, being desperate like that.

That's not bad but still pretty far from 4 1sts. It was a disaster because that pick ended up being the 4th overall. Otherwise Girard turned into a good piece but that's about it.

Regardless that value is still pretty far off from 4 1sts. Bunch of mid 2nd rounders are pretty far off from mid 1st round picks.

You are right I don't see Carolina doing that or the Rangers. I really don't see any team doing that to be honest. I'm fact I would love to see a team give up 4 1sts if I was in their division.....good bye future.

 

[Master P]

Nice, can't wait to have him back in Tampa.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Zero chance Kakko can be included, many reasons, most of which is the organizational weakness at the RW position.

Fair, that's why I put other options there.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Setting Othmann aside and focusing only on the bold.

That's one way of looking at it, but I'm not sure the players, coach and GM necessarily see it the same way. They are currently one of the top teams in the east, and will have a lot of turn-over after this season due to cap constraints. They may think this is a year they want to make a push.

I'm not suggesting the Rangers give up their top prospects. I'm only saying that the team may not think they are still a few years away.

Doubt there's roster turnover beyond Strome, maybe Geogiev and possible a 4th liner or 2. Pretty sure Drury/Slats understand the importance of playoff experience. Now if Dolan forces their hand, thats another story.

 

[Flan the incredible]

The one I thought of was Eric Lindros who was traded for Duchene (undrafted), Peter Forsberg (1st rounder, 6th overall), Ron Hextall (119th overall), Kerry Huffman (1st rounder, 20th overall), Mike Ricci (1st rounder, 4th overall), Chris Simon (2nd rounder, 25th overall), two first rounders and $15 million. So that's 5 first rounders and an early 2nd plus Hextall and Duchene.

Yes, I know the situations are completely different.

Mark Stone was going to be a UFA when he was traded at the deadline.

Lindros was thought to be the next great one. Thats going back 30 years wow.

Good memory.

Stone really wasn't a UFA as he signed an extension immediately. They obviously worked it out a head of time so not really a true UFA that you have to compete with other teams to sign. Still nowhere near 4 1sts.

 

[cheech70]

I agree Lundkvist would probably be the ask over Jones, but you're dreaming if you think Kakko is available. He wasn't for Eichel, he isn't for Miller.

Realistically it's more like Kravtsov + Lundkvist & our '22 1st rounder.

Thats 3 great assets to give up for 1.5 yrs

 

[BCNate]

I think you’re expecting a later 1st, a center that projects to be of 2nd line center or better plus more you’re going to be disappointed, regardless of any bidding war.

We will see but the Rangers offer is a haul even if it doesn’t fit the needs. You have Peterson and Horvat as your top two centers anyway

I would be absolutely floored if Miller gets dealt and a high end RD prospect/young player is not the main piece of the return. That is a gaping need in the organization. To me every other piece (if any) revolve around the quality of the RD coming back.

I'm not saying the Rangers offer isn't a strong one, just not a good one for the Canucks.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Miller isn't getting Eichel type deal. I mean both fan bases are delusional here and so is Seravelli but... Miller isn't Eichel

I'd say 1st 2022 plus RHD(Lundkvist or Schneider )plus Kravtsov ( he wants out) for Miller.

That's maximum. Dude is good but he's being overrated. Plus he's got a history of sorts... nY would eat him alive.