Rumor: Seravalli: Rangers been all over JT Miller

[Pure Slaughter Value]

That wouldn’t be a hard offer to beat for half the teams in the league.

Ok, I'll bite. Who is beating it with what?

 

[StickShift]

Thats 3 great assets to give up for 1.5 yrs

They could always make draft pick assets conditional on the player re-signing with the team.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Ok, I'll bite. Who is beating it with what?

It’s a late 1st, a defensive prospect that doesn’t fill a need for Vancouver and a Russian prospect that would rather play at home than earn a spot in the NHL. It’s not exactly hard to see how that would be beat.

 

[OrangePMD]

They could always make draft pick assets conditional on the player re-signing with the team.

That isn't allowed anymore.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Very True, but JT Miller is also an asset to a team, but not someone you build your offense around. Over last season and this one (91 games), Miller is 81st in the NHL in 5v5 scoring.

Over that same stretch, at 5v5 Among forwards with more than 700 min TOI:
- His point total is 77th in the NHL
- His goal total is 145th in the NHL
- his CF% is 231st in the NHL
- his GF% is 161st in the NHL
- his xGF% is 245th in the NHL

Clearly the team and system come into play on those stats to some extent (particularly possession stats), so they are by no means a "be all, end all", but where Miller has excelled last season and this seasons is the PP where he is 8th in the NHL in scoring (for forwards with over 200 min TOI on the PP).

He's definitely an asset to a team. He can play wing or C. He's got size. He is definitely a weapon on the PP, but he's not someone you would build your offense around either, which is fine, because the type of team acquiring him isn't looking to build their offense around him. They are looking at him as a complementary piece to hopefully push them over the top.

I mean the Rangers PP is 10th in the league. If he doesn't improve our 5 on 5 play what;s the point. Hertl is better in that regard I would guess.

Not enough to be worth Schneider, a 1st and Kravstov , Jones or Chytil on top of that.

 

[TGWL]

I would think this would be the most important piece to be honest. It would be similar to TB over paying for the low cap hit on Goodrow and Coleman. Miller at 50% isn't a need this year, but next season when Strome leaves Miller can come in and play top 6 C and hopefully produce at a ppg level for $2.75 cap hit. Next year the 50% allows the team to maintain their momentum and the development of their younger players.

It seems more of an important piece for Vancouver to get the most possible back. If Rangers are getting Miller that means Strome is surely gone next season. If anything, Rangers might ask for a million retained. I don't see them asking for half and paying a ransom of that.

 

[BCNate]

Miller isn't getting Eichel type deal. I mean both fan bases are delusional here and so is Seravelli but... Miller isn't Eichel

I'd say 1st 2022 plus RHD(Lundkvist or Schneider )plus Kravtsov ( he wants out) for Miller.

That's maximum. Dude is good but he's being overrated. Plus he's got a history of sorts... nY would eat him alive.

The irony here is that while you say the Canucks fans are delusional, your offer is what we would 100% want. I don't see anyone asking for more than that. If the Rangers were to make that offer, I'd be pretty sure the deal would be done today. I'd retain 50% on Miller to get that return.

Depending on how you value Schneider/Kravstov, I'd also say this is arguably a better deal than Eichel got.

 

[LuLover96]

I always love when fans try to get star players for scraps. Two teams need to accept a deal, it’s not just quantity for quality. If I’m Rutherford I say the deal includes Schneider, a First and another piece or no deal. They’re the ones trying to lead these negotiations, and I think we’d be happy keeping him for the time being.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

[QUOTE="Overrateprospects, post: 182300320, member: 335730"]So a radio station in Vancouver is stating Rangers have a lot of interest…. Hmmmmm
I’m sure they checked in like every other team but I don’t see him filling that middle 9 role that has been rumored since Blais went down.


If they Rangers wanted a top 6 forward they could’ve just kept Buch in the first place. Canucks want Braden and that’s a no go for Rangers as he was top target in the organization when he got drafted and fits with what they want moving forward.

I don’t see either team fitting each other’s needs as Rangers want a young U23 Centre and Canucks want a U23 Tough, good skater RHD paired with Hughes. Neither team will part with what the other wants.[/QUOTE]

oooof...

the guy has been the most credible. yikes.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

The irony here is that while you say the Canucks fans are delusional, your offer is what we would 100% want. I don't see anyone asking for more than that. If the Rangers were to make that offer, I'd be pretty sure the deal would be done today. I'd retain 50% on Miller to get that return.

Depending on how you value Schneider/Kravstov, I'd also say this is arguably a better deal than Eichel got.

What you want and what youll get are 2 different things.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

I always love when fans try to get star players for scraps. Two teams need to accept a deal, it’s not just quantity for quality. If I’m Rutherford I say the deal includes Schneider, a First and another piece or no deal. They’re the ones trying to lead these negotiations, and I think we’d be happy keeping him for the time being.

Most Ranger fans dont even want him.

 

[LuLover96]

Most Ranger fans dont even want him.

The difference is your team does. Fans being disinterested doesnt mean you get a discount.

 

[Boondock]

It seems more of an important piece for Vancouver to get the most possible back. If Rangers are getting Miller that means Strome is surely gone next season. If anything, Rangers might ask for a million retained. I don't see them asking for half and paying a ransom of that.

Trading Miller signals a 2 year re-tool (or whatever term doesn't mean scorched earth rebuild). Miller at 28 is slightly older than our other forward core, and given his play would carry the most value if traded. Canucks will be up against the cap, so the retention isn't a good thing for them, but if it comes with an asset then yes 100% we retain. I really do think if the Rangers are really interested in Miller - 50% retention is a must for next season. I feel the same way with the Avs. I don't think they will be able to afford Kadri's next contract, so Miller at 50% this year would help but the true value is a $2.625 cap hit next season - a season the Canuck's will have already decided they are re-tooling so they can eat some retention. I don't care if the Canucks trade Miller, or if they trade him to the Rangers, but if they are using Miller as an asset, it better address some of the holes we currently have on the roster. Young wingers and offensive undersized LHD don't do a lot for the Canucks.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I agree Lundkvist would probably be the ask over Jones, but you're dreaming if you think Kakko is available. He wasn't for Eichel, he isn't for Miller.

Realistically it's more like Kravtsov + Lundkvist & our '22 1st rounder.

I'd be ok with that, but I also feel other teams could beat it.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Trading Miller signals a 2 year re-tool (or whatever term doesn't mean scorched earth rebuild). Miller at 28 is slightly older than our other forward core, and given his play would carry the most value if traded. Canucks will be up against the cap, so the retention isn't a good thing for them, but if it comes with an asset then yes 100% we retain. I really do think if the Rangers are really interested in Miller - 50% retention is a must for next season. I feel the same way with the Avs. I don't think they will be able to afford Kadri's next contract, so Miller at 50% this year would help but the true value is a $2.625 cap hit next season - a season the Canuck's will have already decided they are re-tooling so they can eat some retention. I don't care if the Canucks trade Miller, or if they trade him to the Rangers, but if they are using Miller as an asset, it better address some of the holes we currently have on the roster. Young wingers and offensive undersized LHD don't do a lot for the Canucks.

We are kind of where the Avs were. Had a good playoffs, fell afterwards and now need to retool around the core. The biggest factor is with Petey. Is he a centre, or a winger?

 

[wintersej]

Way too much.

Putting aside the oddity of trading for a player we moved on from not THAT long ago because of how poorly he meshed with the team culture, the obvious parallel deal here is the Yandle to NY trade from a few years back. High end player at a key position, 50% retained with a season and a half left on his contract. Similar ages (Yandle was 28 when traded).

Yandle returned:
- 1st rounder
- 2nd rounder (the following year)
- a 3rd pair journeyman defender (John Moore)
- a well-regarded rookie (former 3rd round pick Anthony Duclair, who had put up 7 points in his first 18 games).

And that was considered a lot back then. None of those pieces was valued as highly as Schneider. I still don't think Miller is a fit for the Rangers ($$ and bad prior history), but the equivalent Rangers package would look more like:

-1st rounder
-2nd rounder
-Nemeth
-Zac Jones

There are variations to be made here, but none that involve Schneider going back. I wouldn't move Chytil in a Miller trade, either. You want to upgrade from Nemeth to Hajek? Fine--replace the 2nd rounder with a 4th rounder. You want to upgrade from Jones to Nils Lundkvist? Fine. Remove the 1st rounder.

You get a better offer than this from another team? Accept it, by all means.

You are underselling John Moore at the time he was only 24 and still had top 4 upside. Certainly more value than Nemeth.

But, the big issue here is you are really misremembering who well regarded Duclair was at the time. The forbearer of these boards has Duclair ranked as the #41 prospect in the NHL and that is certainly the same range as Schneider.

I do think that the Yandle trade is the right one to look at, just think you are underselling what the Rangers gave up.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

The difference is your team does. Fans being disinterested doesnt mean you get a discount.

Do they? Im skeptical.

 

[Boondock]

We are kind of where the Avs were. Had a good playoffs, fell afterwards and now need to retool around the core. The biggest factor is with Petey. Is he a centre, or a winger?

I would hope Petey re-gains his form as a C, if not that 3x$7+ deal looks even worse.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Thats 3 great assets to give up for 1.5 yrs

Kravtsov isn't coming back to NY, so a deal like this makes sense for his value, but where does Nils fit in with us when Schneider is the much better prospect? Our first this year is a late rounder so I'm not broken up including it. Sure, they're definitely prime assets, but Miller makes us a much better team & Vancouver isn't giving him away.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I'd be ok with that, but I also feel other teams could beat it.

Then I think you're going to be disappointed. Just because I make that deal, doesn't mean Drury would.

 

[platotld]

Rangers don’t have any of those, unfortunately. I could see Lundkvist going to Vancouver but would probably need more than one-plus season of JT Miller. Unless Vancouver retains. That could be a deal. JTM @50% plus a 3rd for Lundkvist?

Lundkvist, as if we need more under 6 foot players or d men

 

[John Mandalorian]

The difference is your team does. Fans being disinterested doesnt mean you get a discount.

It's more likely the case that Rutherford is leaking information to the media to manipulate other teams.

 

[TGWL]

I always love when fans try to get star players for scraps. Two teams need to accept a deal, it’s not just quantity for quality. If I’m Rutherford I say the deal includes Schneider, a First and another piece or no deal. They’re the ones trying to lead these negotiations, and I think we’d be happy keeping him for the time being.

Then keep him? If JT Miller is on the block there's a bigger reason than "because teams are interested". Teams don't just trade "star" players away when they already have a young core of important pieces, especially when those players aren't expiring UFA's. He brings the most back right now and it's an easy contract to get rid of, but there's obviously more to it. JT won't be moved for peanuts, but Schneider won't be included in the deal.

I definitely think the ask is a 1st, prospect and another piece. But I don't think that prospect is Schneider or the conversation is most likely over.

 

[Overrateprospects]

Do they? Im skeptical.

You seem to agree with Bruce BruBro who said it was a legit source

 

[bigdog16]

I always love when fans try to get star players for scraps. Two teams need to accept a deal, it’s not just quantity for quality. If I’m Rutherford I say the deal includes Schneider, a First and another piece or no deal. They’re the ones trying to lead these negotiations, and I think we’d be happy keeping him for the time being.

So basically what Jack Eichel got? Considering Eichel is on a different galaxy as a player than JT Miller, younger, and had 5 years left on his deal...I think you will be surprised at the return

Sure both teams need to accept a deal...But the Rangers are on a hell of a lot better train track than Vancouver is right now. Vancouver is desperate for a change, the Rangers are fine