Post-Game Talk: "Scheifele wins the draw, Ladd shoots it high!" And other ref stories. Jets fall 4-3.

[theamazingchris]

It doesn't matter whether or not I want Pavelec to fail, because he already has as a NHL starter. C'est la vie. We need improvement there.

D wasn't great tonight either. I concur with Res, C-. I think we gave as good as we got, though. Scheif makes me so happy.

 

[garret9]

The trade discussions at closing time must be fun

Sometimes can be fun with the diversity...

Once we had:
* Thomas Drance (the Score and Canucks Army)
* Cam Charron (Canucks Army, canucks.nhl.com and Leafs Nation)
* Harrison Mooney (Puck Daddy and Pass it to Bullis)
* Myself (AIH and Hockey-Graphs)

 

[Hank Chinaski]

So that's now what, the 5th straight game that the 4th line has played under five minutes? Pardy-Ellerby clocking in at under 13 minutes? Oy. Please fix the depth on this team, Chevy. In house replacements, free agents, waiver wire castoffs...I don't care. Give us something better than Anthony Peluso and Adam Pardy.

Pavelec was dreadful. What's with this nonsense about "D Zone Coverage"? Watch Tuukka Rask. Watch Ryan Miller. Watch Ben Bishop. Hell, watch Al Montoya on his better days. More often than not, good goalies find a way to deal with breakdowns in defensive coverage. That 4th goal? Defensive coverage, are you freaking kidding me? How about not flailing around helplessly and instead sealing the ice, force the Nashville player to roof it in close?

Loved Scheifele's game today. Frolik is looking like one of Chevy's best pickups, I didn't think he'd come in and play like a legitimate top 6 winger. Great game from him as well.

 

[Andy6]

Wheeler has 22 goals, 22 assists, 44 points in 55 games … Beyak isn't going to be able to sleep for a month if he notices that one.

 

[Sweech]

Pretty amazing shift by Scheifele right there.

He looked a bit like a Malkin clone later in the game when he drove behind the net and went for the backhand wraparound.

Scheif was just an absolute monster all night. Almost every time the puck touched his stick it felt like something could happen.

So, so, so very happy we took him 7th overall in 2012.

 

[CaptainChef]

As if Montoya is any better...

9-4 win %, 2.2 goals against, .925 save %

vs

16-20 ; 2.97 goals against; .902 save %

Awe, I'd say we have a slight difference in our goaltenders at this point. And, we're paying that bum over 4 million a year!!! Hate to do it, but we'll never go anywhere until we get a real # 1 in here. For now, play Monty PLEASE

 

[Sweech]

http://jetsnation.ca/2014/1/6/pavelec-performance-tracker-midway-update

This is from a while ago but just found this now

Great piece. Wish I had seen that before.

 

[jetkarma*]

Scheif was just an absolute monster all night. Almost every time the puck touched his stick it felt like something could happen.

So, so, so very happy we took him 7th overall in 2012.

Amen to that.

Just wait/imagine for next year after he goes through an off season regimen knowing what he now knows.

Thing is we also all know he won't be spending his summer at the lake and golfing

 

[Sweech]

Amen to that.

Just wait/imagine for next year after he goes through an off season regimen knowing what he now knows.

Thing is we also all know he won't be spending his summer at the lake and golfing

Same thing goes for Trouba over the next few years. As he develops more out of a 19 year old's body and more into a man's one it's going to be scary.

Once his body can cash the cheques his mind is writing opposing players better watch the **** out.

 

[JC Numminen]

So that's now what, the 5th straight game that the 4th line has played under five minutes? Pardy-Ellerby clocking in at under 13 minutes? Oy. Please fix the depth on this team, Chevy. In house replacements, free agents, waiver wire castoffs...I don't care. Give us something better than Anthony Peluso and Adam Pardy.

Pavelec was dreadful. What's with this nonsense about "D Zone Coverage"? Watch Tuukka Rask. Watch Ryan Miller. Watch Ben Bishop. Hell, watch Al Montoya on his better days. More often than not, good goalies find a way to deal with breakdowns in defensive coverage. That 4th goal? Defensive coverage, are you freaking kidding me? How about not flailing around helplessly and instead sealing the ice, force the Nashville player to roof it in close?

Loved Scheifele's game today. Frolik is looking like one of Chevy's best pickups, I didn't think he'd come in and play like a legitimate top 6 winger. Great game from him as well.

What was being talked about in the second intermission? I just caught the end of Lawless say something about Frolik for Colgiano?

 

[jetkarma*]

Same thing goes for Trouba over the next few years. As he develops more out of a 19 year old's body and more into a man's one it's going to be scary.

Once his body can cash the cheques his mind is writing opposing players better watch the **** out.

Didn't really listen to 1290 during the game but I did a bit. One thing I caught was Lawless commenting on Scheifele ,but it applies to Trouba as well.

He was talking about how well he is and has been playing and then mentioned about the father weekend and seeing Mark's dad . I think his comment was "he's a mountain of a man " . I remember at the draft and seeing him and thinking , major fill out ahead for Scheifele in the next 4 years or so . Of course we all know the borderline giant status of Trouba's family tree.

Lawless said wait till Scheifele gets that Jagr back end to throw around, and he has a good point. Pair that with the smarts , instincts , shot , hands , and 200 foot game and we have our number one C . What a ballsy , brave selection to start his tenure in Winnipeg by Cheveldayoff.

 

[jetkarma*]

What was being talked about in the second intermission? I just caught the end of Lawless say something about Frolik for Colgiano?

Comparing the two and the contract that he just signed and that it should be what Frolik will get .

 

[Mighty Joe Moon]

In North America, the way hockey is coached, I feel, is very mechanical. Players are taught to do things and think and react a certain way from a young age. Defencemen have it drilled into their skulls if you see x, do y, because the goalie is doing z. Vice versa for goalies. Seems to me that Pavelec's fundamentals are so far off anything resembling predictable goaltending that it makes it hard for the d to play in front of him. To me, they play better in front of Montoya and I think this is a large part of it. Montoya may not be the best, but he's sound fundamentally. He does what guys expect back there. Pavelec doesn't get a lot of help some games, but he flops around like he's playing street hockey out there. His positioning is especially atrocious, wandering all over the slot or committing too early and leaving an open net with a numbers mismatch in front. And people like to blame the d for not taking the man. How about he covers the net? He's the freakin' goalie, it's only his job. Help your d help you.

At the very least, each goalies' respective play has earned a more even split.

 

[Atoyot]

I really don't think that's true. Even the deepest Pavelec haters don't think before the night, "boy, I hope he lets in a bunch tonight because I hate him" why? Because we are all Jets fans. There are a few of us that really want him gone, but fairly sure we all want him to do well.

I've mentioned it before, confirmation bias. You don't go in thinking "I hope he fails" but I guarantee you that there are people who would see a Pavelec goal and blame him who would see the exact same goal on Montoya and say it wasn't his fault. It's not consciously hoping for him to fail, it's an unconscious bias that upholds one's beliefs. Once again, everyone does it.

I blame Pavelec for the first goal 100%, and I think that he gave up many chances from poor positioning and rebound control, but those didn't cost us. We were scored on a ridiculous passing play that went from side to side 3 times, on a cross crease play immediately after one of our players got hit in the numbers, and a scramble resulting from a deflected puck by our own player on net. Not going to put this loss or any of those 3 goals on him.

Overall I thought it was a good game. Scheifele was awesome, Trouba had a few hiccoughs but honestly I kind of expected those to start around this time of year as it's difficult to go from a ~25 game schedule to an 82 game schedule, the Olympic break should re-energize him. LLW was good. Not really a game I can be upset about. Thought we played well and it could have easily gone either way.

 

[pucka lucka]

Seth Jones 1st star?

 

[pucka lucka]

I've mentioned it before, confirmation bias. You don't go in thinking "I hope he fails" but I guarantee you that there are people who would see a Pavelec goal and blame him who would see the exact same goal on Montoya and say it wasn't his fault. It's not consciously hoping for him to fail, it's an unconscious bias that upholds one's beliefs. Once again, everyone does it.

I blame Pavelec for the first goal 100%, and I think that he gave up many chances from poor positioning and rebound control, but those didn't cost us. We were scored on a ridiculous passing play that went from side to side 3 times, on a cross crease play immediately after one of our players got hit in the numbers, and a scramble resulting from a deflected puck by our own player on net. Not going to put this loss or any of those 3 goals on him.

Overall I thought it was a good game. Scheifele was awesome, Trouba had a few hiccoughs but honestly I kind of expected those to start around this time of year as it's difficult to go from a ~25 game schedule to an 82 game schedule, the Olympic break should re-energize him. LLW was good. Not really a game I can be upset about. Thought we played well and it could have easily gone either way.

You keep throwing around the term confirmation bias like it applies to anyone who disagrees with you.

 

[Duke749]

In North America, the way hockey is coached, I feel, is very mechanical. Players are taught to do things and think and react a certain way from a young age. Defencemen have it drilled into their skulls if you see x, do y, because the goalie is doing z. Vice versa for goalies. Seems to me that Pavelec's fundamentals are so far off anything resembling predictable goaltending that it makes it hard for the d to play in front of him. To me, they play better in front of Montoya and I think this is a large part of it. Montoya may not be the best, but he's sound fundamentally. He does what guys expect back there. Pavelec doesn't get a lot of help some games, but he flops around like he's playing street hockey out there. His positioning is especially atrocious, wandering all over the slot or committing too early and leaving an open net with a numbers mismatch in front. And people like to blame the d for not taking the man. How about he covers the net? He's the freakin' goalie, it's only his job. Help your d help you.

At the very least, each goalies' respective play has earned a more even split.

I think the way you started this post off, doesn't really help considering where half the best goalies even come from.

 

[Atoyot]

You keep throwing around the term confirmation bias like it applies to anyone who disagrees with you.

It was a direct response to the quote "nobody wants Pavelec to fail." No, consciously you don't want him to fail, but if you believe that he is poor, you are going to recognize the things he does poorly a lot more than the things he does well. That is how the human brain works. It had nothing to do with whether he disagreed with me (which in this case, I would have been disagreeing with him as he made the original statement, which I don't. I don't believe Pavs is a starter or a very good goaltender.) He made the statement, and I provided him with the information as to why people would "want" a goalie to fail.

 

[Gm0ney]

Didn't really listen to 1290 during the game but I did a bit. One thing I caught was Lawless commenting on Scheifele ,but it applies to Trouba as well.

He was talking about how well he is and has been playing and then mentioned about the father weekend and seeing Mark's dad . I think his comment was "he's a mountain of a man " . I remember at the draft and seeing him and thinking , major fill out ahead for Scheifele in the next 4 years or so . Of course we all know the borderline giant status of Trouba's family tree.

Lawless said wait till Scheifele gets that Jagr back end to throw around, and he has a good point. Pair that with the smarts , instincts , shot , hands , and 200 foot game and we have our number one C . What a ballsy , brave selection to start his tenure in Winnipeg by Cheveldayoff.

I think the most that can be said of Chevy's contribution to the Scheifele pick, was he let the scouts do their job...and to be fair, I was saying the same thing when people were tearing out their hair about passing up on Couturier and Hamilton.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/top-scout-will-run-draft-show-123983754.html

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sp...-still-out-there-148837215.html?device=mobile

Mark Scheifele: His inherited scouts pushed hard and Cheveldayoff called Scheifele's name last June in Minnesota. So far, the GM hasn't uttered any regrets, even though he sent Scheifele back to the OHL's Barrie Colts after seven NHL games last fall.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

In North America, the way hockey is coached, I feel, is very mechanical. Players are taught to do things and think and react a certain way from a young age. Defencemen have it drilled into their skulls if you see x, do y, because the goalie is doing z. Vice versa for goalies. Seems to me that Pavelec's fundamentals are so far off anything resembling predictable goaltending that it makes it hard for the d to play in front of him. To me, they play better in front of Montoya and I think this is a large part of it. Montoya may not be the best, but he's sound fundamentally. He does what guys expect back there. Pavelec doesn't get a lot of help some games, but he flops around like he's playing street hockey out there. His positioning is especially atrocious, wandering all over the slot or committing too early and leaving an open net with a numbers mismatch in front. And people like to blame the d for not taking the man. How about he covers the net? He's the freakin' goalie, it's only his job. Help your d help you.

At the very least, each goalies' respective play has earned a more even split.

Spot on post. Nailed it.

Pavelec is up there with MA Fleury as the worst technical goalie in the NHL. Pavs actually reminds me a tonne of Steve Shields back in the day; huge frame and lots of athleticism, but terrible lateral movement and a tendency to completely lose their fundamentals when things get scrambly.

Do you think it's a coincidence that there seem to be fewer "quality chances" when Montoya starts? Is it because the Jets play harder in front of Montoya? Is it because Montoya plays easier teams?

Your post highlights such an important point, that goalie style and ability really changes the way a team looks in front of them.

 

[tbcwpg]

I'd say Res, Truck, Jet and myself are all in the top 10 of Pav's toughest critics... but all of us have congratulated Pavelec when done well. We (some far more than others) just point out when the results have been as would generally expect.

I think that some of the posters you've listed do not say anything really positive about him. One suggested that he was not the main reason for the win over the Ducks. Also, to the fact that Pavelec detractors don't want him to fail, one in your list has said "I hope Pavelec gets shelled tonight" in one GDT. There is a faction that don't mind him failing because it's one more game to him supposedly being out the door.

Typical Noel game. Goaltending subpar at best (only the 4th I'd say wasn't really on him), defensive zone coverage atrocious as well, one definite stinker from Hutton and one awful defensive zone play from the Preds made this game seem closer than it was. Lots of buzzing around, not a lot of finish.

I will say one thing about the Pavelec/d-zone stuff as I'm sure I'm in the "pro-Pavs" camp by some for some reason, when I've said he's been bad overall in his career. I understand the stats that day defence doesn't really affect sv%, and I would agree. But there's this mindset amongst many in the "I h8 Pavelec" club that seem to think that mentioning how Trouba was awful in his own zone, or that all bar Toby had glaring defensive errors tonight, is somehow making excuses for, and/or absolving Pavelec from criticism. He did not do his job. There were mistakes from almost everyone defensively, from forwards back to the goalie. I think it's just poor debate when we're supposed to think that Pavelec should be bailing out the defence for their mistakes but that the defence doesn't deserve criticism for making those mistakes in the first place.

Pavelec is bad. The defence was bad as well. One does not excuse the other.

 

[broinwhyteridge]

hey look pavs is #1...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
In loses. And 60th in sv%

mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp mvp

 

[blueandgoldguy]

what a total dodge on my question re: 1290

What question?

And what did Lawless say?

 

[Jet]

So when Rich Clune dove and took that penalty in the 1st I tweeted him. Nice that he favorited my tweet

 

[WinnipegWinter*]

So once again people pile on Pavelec when the defensive coverage didn't exactly do him favors. Maybe Montoya would have played better, maybe he wouldn't have. He isn't a godsend.

Look at his numbers. Chances are, he would have played better