Blue Jays Discussion: Saunders > Bruce; Tulo and Bautista trade DL spots

[Sokil]

Like Osuna? We'll also have Sanchez then. Cecil should be pitching better at that point.

if we're in the playoffs, Sanchez is starting

 

[Discoverer]

Connor Greene to AA. I'm guessing either Harris or Perdomo will be moved up to Dunedin to fill the spot.

Perdomo had 12 K's last night. He's about 50 innings from reaching his inning limit...would be a good time to fast track him to the bigs as a reliever for the rest of the season (can put him back to starting in AA next year). He has the best stuff of any lefty in this organization and we badly need another lefty behind Cecil for late in games. I'm telling you right now this kids stuff will play up out of the pen against Major league hitters. I'm guessing the organization will be too stiff to consider this but he's likely the best option internally if you're looking to add some high leverage stuff to the back of the bullpen.

When's the last time any team moved a prospect from A-ball to the majors in the middle of a season? Even Daniel Norris started his meteoric rise a level higher.

 

[Radiohead]

Connor Greene to AA. I'm guessing either Harris or Perdomo will be moved up to Dunedin to fill the spot.

Perdomo had 12 K's last night. He's about 50 innings from reaching his inning limit...would be a good time to fast track him to the bigs as a reliever for the rest of the season (can put him back to starting in AA next year). He has the best stuff of any lefty in this organization and we badly need another lefty behind Cecil for late in games. I'm telling you right now this kids stuff will play up out of the pen against Major league hitters. I'm guessing the organization will be too stiff to consider this but he's likely the best option internally if you're looking to add some high leverage stuff to the back of the bullpen.

He's apparently Rule-5 eligible again next year. Can't believe he's 6'6".

Tall left-handers tend to develop slowly, Angel Perdomo is no exception. The native of San Cristobal, Dominican Republic signed as a 17-yr-old international free agent in 2011 and was left unprotected in this off-season’s Rule 5 draft. Thankfully teams decided to shy away from a slow developing LHP.

http://jaysfromthecouch.com/2016/01...cts-honorable-mention-mlb-milb-news-rankings/

 

[Mach85]

if we're in the playoffs, Sanchez is starting

Not according to Gibbons and the rest of the organization. But regardless we have Osuna and Cecil. If the org does change their mind on Sanchez, I'd be interested in someone like Will Smith from Milwaukee.

 

[Discoverer]

Reid-Foley having another great start in Dunedin (5 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 7 K). He made huge strides in Lansing this year by cutting his walks in half from last year, and he's cut them even further (and increased his K-rate) since his promotion. His progress has been a really nice development this year.

And Alford with a homer, too.

 

[Bad News Benning]

When's the last time any team moved a prospect from A-ball to the majors in the middle of a season? Even Daniel Norris started his meteoric rise a level higher.

Osuna and Castro both made it to the bigs with no experience above A ball.

Perdomo should be in AA right now (should've been in Lansing last year and Dunedin/New Hampshire this year) but that's another story. You can easily fast track a pitcher in the pen.

He's 22 and will need to be placed on the 40 man roster in the fall....this isn't a 19 year old pup we are dealing with here.

 

[Discoverer]

Osuna and Castro both made it to the bigs with no experience above A ball.

Perdomo should be in AA right now (should've been in Lansing last year and Dunedin/New Hampshire this year) but that's another story. You can easily fast track a pitcher in the pen.

He's 22 and will need to be placed on the 40 man roster in the fall....this isn't a 19 year old pup we are dealing with here.

Both Osuna and Castro had innings (thought very few, admittedly) at A+. They skipped two levels. Perdomo would have to skip three.

More importantly, though, I meant specifically moving up that quickly after starting a season at such a low level. Osuna and Castro both made the team out of spring training. It may seem like semantics, but I think it's a pretty significant difference given how much can change over the course of an offseason.

The age is the one factor that makes it more reasonable, to me, but even then I think they would be better off to move him aggressively, one level at a time, and see how he does, rather than forcing him up to the majors so early when he's walking 4+/9IP in Lansing.

 

[metafour]

Perdomo should be in AA right now (should've been in Lansing last year and Dunedin/New Hampshire this year) but that's another story.

You are making quite obtuse statements about a pitcher that you have likely never seen actually pitch. Perdomo is raw; just take the development he's shown and be happy. They've been slow playing him for a reason.

 

[zeke]

Young Core Update: No Youth Jays vs Elite Youth Red Sox

Career numbers so far:

Hitter WAR = average of fwar & bwar per 650pa
Starter WAR = average of fwar & ra9war per 32 starts
Reliever WAR = average of fwar & ra9war per 65ip

Only players who have a prorated average war over 1.0 listed.



Travis (25): 350pa, 126wrc+, 6.1war -- Betts (23): 1228pa, 120wrc+, 5.5war
Pillar (27): 1172pa, 86wrc+, 4.1war ---- Bradley (26): 1081pa, 94wrc+, 3.6war
Stroman (25): 40gs, 96era-, 3.6war --- Shaw (26): 548pa, 108wrc+, 3.7war
Sanchez (23): 26gs, 81era-, 3.6war - Bogaerts (23): 1645pa, 104wrc+, 3.4war
Pompey (23): 146pa, 88wrc+, 2.5war - Swihart (24): 383pa, 92wrc+, 2.2war
Osuna (21): 103.0ip, 59era-, 1.7war --- Rodriguez (23): 27gs, 111era-, 1.7war
Hutch (25): 72gs, 121era-, 1.3war ------ Vazquez (25): 363pa, 59wrc+, 1.3war

 

[Sokil]

Not according to Gibbons and the rest of the organization.

They never commented on what they'd do with him in the playoffs, just that he'll be taken out of the rotation at some point

 

[Mach85]

They never commented on what they'd do with him in the playoffs, just that he'll be taken out of the rotation at some point

Well, if he's put in the pen it's because he's hitting his innings limit. It seems unlikely that they'd put him in the pen, then stretch him out AGAIN for the postseason. I can't think of a time that's ever happened.

 

[Discoverer]

They never commented on what they'd do with him in the playoffs, just that he'll be taken out of the rotation at some point

I can't imagine moving him to the pen for 2-3 months and then having him stretched out enough to throw more than a few innings per start.

 

[Bad News Benning]

Both Osuna and Castro had innings (thought very few, admittedly) at A+. They skipped two levels. Perdomo would have to skip three.

More importantly, though, I meant specifically moving up that quickly after starting a season at such a low level. Osuna and Castro both made the team out of spring training. It may seem like semantics, but I think it's a pretty significant difference given how much can change over the course of an offseason.

The age is the one factor that makes it more reasonable, to me, but even then I think they would be better off to move him aggressively, one level at a time, and see how he does, rather than forcing him up to the majors so early when he's walking 4+/9IP in Lansing.

Perdomo is dominating Midwest hitters. I think he would be doing just fine against FSL hitters and even handling his own against AA hitters as a starter. I want to see him challenged because his stuff is clearly too good for that level.

I have no doubt if you moved him to the pen he could move very quickly. His stuff will be even better when he doesn't have to worry about a 3rd pitch and his fastball sits in the mid-high 90's.

The only reason i suggest we consider this is because Perdomo has an innings limit and I think very highly of his stuff.

 

[Scrub*]

They never commented on what they'd do with him in the playoffs, just that he'll be taken out of the rotation at some point

Unlikely. They are taking him out of the rotation to save his arm, and it's very difficult to go from pitching 1-2 innings a game back to 5+ in short period of time.

Am hoping their is a trade for a SP out there similar to when we traded Barreto+ for JD.

 

[Bad News Benning]

You are making quite obtuse statements about a pitcher that you have likely never seen actually pitch. Perdomo is raw; just take the development he's shown and be happy. They've been slow playing him for a reason.

excuse me? I've seen him pitch many times in person. I mentioned it last year that he should've been starting in Lansing and was too good for Vancouver. We were very lucky another team didn't snap him up for their bullpen this past fall.

I don't know why everyone's arms are up on my suggestion. I at no point suggested that we turf the idea of him as a starter (I even said he should start in AA next season). Look we have 40-50 innings out of him, let's throw him in the Dunedin or New Hampshire bullpen and see how he performs. If he dominates like I expect he will than promote him to Buffalo and eventually Toronto in September. This team has been searching for another lefty arm behind Cecil for two seasons now....and well Loup, Girodo, etc aren't the answer. Give the kid a chance and he will open peoples eyes like Osuna did.

 

[Discoverer]

excuse me? I've seen him pitch many times in person. I mentioned it last year that he should've been starting in Lansing and was too good for Vancouver. We were very lucky another team didn't snap him up for their bullpen this past fall.

I don't know why everyone's arms are up on my suggestion. I at no point suggested that we turf the idea of him as a starter (I even said he should start in AA next season). Look we have 40-50 innings out of him, let's throw him in the Dunedin or New Hampshire bullpen and see how he performs. If he dominates like I expect he will than promote him to Buffalo and eventually Toronto in September. This team has been searching for another lefty arm behind Cecil for two seasons now....and well Loup, Girodo, etc aren't the answer. Give the kid a chance and he will open peoples eyes like Osuna did.

Did you notice his control problems when you saw him?

 

[metafour]

excuse me? I've seen him pitch many times in person. I mentioned it last year that he should've been starting in Lansing and was too good for Vancouver. We were very lucky another team didn't snap him up for their bullpen this past fall.

I don't know why everyone's arms are up on my suggestion. I at no point suggested that we turf the idea of him as a starter (I even said he should start in AA next season). Look we have 40-50 innings out of him, let's throw him in the Dunedin or New Hampshire bullpen and see how he performs. If he dominates like I expect he will than promote him to Buffalo and eventually Toronto in September. This team has been searching for another lefty arm behind Cecil for two seasons now....and well Loup, Girodo, etc aren't the answer. Give the kid a chance and he will open peoples eyes like Osuna did.

You don't believe that a pitcher with obvious control inconsistencies may not be the best idea for the bullpen, wherein appearances are so short that control pitfalls are therefore exaggerated, because there is no time for a reliever to "find his stuff"?

I'm sorry, but I can't help but chuckle at the idea of you dictating what level he "SHOULD" be at. He walked 16 in 21.1 innings in Vancouver last season. That is nearly 7 walks per 9...but he should have been in Lansing? This kid walked 10.03 per 9 and 6.07 per 9 in his two seasons in the DSL before moving state-side. That is why they have been taking their time with him. That doesn't make sense to you? His 4.13 BB/9 this season is an improvement, but hardly something that suggests that he should be in AA. For all you know, the clearly more advanced hitters in AA would lay off the stuff that he's blowing past A-ball hitters with right now.

The other problem is that once you move a starter to the bullpen, even "short term", it often becomes hard to move them back down to starting...especially if they show success in the bullpen. Do you really want to pigeon-hole a 6'6 LHP with plus stuff into a bullpen role?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Perdomo had 12 K's last night. He's about 50 innings from reaching his inning limit...would be a good time to fast track him to the bigs as a reliever for the rest of the season

Interesting.

Not according to Gibbons and the rest of the organization. But regardless we have Osuna and Cecil. If the org does change their mind on Sanchez, I'd be interested in someone like Will Smith from Milwaukee.

Cecil is pure wild card.
10% he'll be awesome.
90% he's not going to do well.

 

[Jack Bauer]

if we're in the playoffs, Sanchez is starting

We're in an era of protecting arms over winning.

Sanchez will be in the bullpen and won't be starting again until April very soon.

 

[Mach85]

Interesting.


Cecil is pure wild card.
10% he'll be awesome.
90% he's not going to do well.

Cecil started similarly bad last year and then was one of the best relievers in baseball the rest of the way through - I suggest looking up his monthly splits from last season, or hell his career numbers, then re-evaluate those percentages. A bullpen with Osuna, Sanchez, and Cecil is pretty intimidating.

 

[Eyedea]

Cecil is pure wild card.
10% he'll be awesome.
90% he's not going to do well.

Wow, is he really that much of a wild card? I'd love to see the process that led to these numbers if you mind sharing!

 

[Bad News Benning]

Did you notice his control problems when you saw him?

His control wasn't that bad from the starts i watched. It's pretty rare for most young strike out pitchers to have pin point control if that's what you're thinking. Kershaw and Syndergaard are very very rare creatures. I think control is overblown when dealing with young pitchers. The only time i really worry about a young pitchers control is when they aren't missing bats/getting hit around. When I'm evaluating a pitcher I look at swinging strike%, k/9 rate, avg against, etc well before bb/9. Control is generally the last thing to come for a young power pitcher.

 

[TF97]

If Atkins is looking to improve the bullpen. I'd be giving Houston a call and try to buy low on Josh Fields.

 

[Bad News Benning]

You don't believe that a pitcher with obvious control inconsistencies may not be the best idea for the bullpen, wherein appearances are so short that control pitfalls are therefore exaggerated, because there is no time for a reliever to "find his stuff"?

I'm sorry, but I can't help but chuckle at the idea of you dictating what level he "SHOULD" be at. He walked 16 in 21.1 innings in Vancouver last season. That is nearly 7 walks per 9...but he should have been in Lansing? This kid walked 10.03 per 9 and 6.07 per 9 in his two seasons in the DSL before moving state-side. That is why they have been taking their time with him. That doesn't make sense to you? His 4.13 BB/9 this season is an improvement, but hardly something that suggests that he should be in AA. For all you know, the clearly more advanced hitters in AA would lay off the stuff that he's blowing past A-ball hitters with right now.

The other problem is that once you move a starter to the bullpen, even "short term", it often becomes hard to move them back down to starting...especially if they show success in the bullpen. Do you really want to pigeon-hole a 6'6 LHP with plus stuff into a bullpen role?

I'm saying try it out in the minors and see how he responds. If he responds well to the challenge continue to challenge him at higher levels. I have no doubts his stuff can play out of the bullpen.

He won't be pigeon holed under this regime. The only reason i'm suggesting it this year is because he has limited innings left and I think his stuff can play up. There isn't exactly a ton of options behind Cecil and I'd rather not trade prospects for a bullpen arm.

 

[Discoverer]

His control wasn't that bad from the starts i watched. It's pretty rare for most young strike out pitchers to have pin point control if that's what you're thinking. Kershaw and Syndergaard are very very rare creatures. I think control is overblown when dealing with young pitchers. The only time i really worry about a young pitchers control is when they aren't missing bats/getting hit around. When I'm evaluating a pitcher I look at swinging strike%, k/9 rate, avg against, etc well before bb/9.

I'm not asking for pinpoint control, but you need to show an ability to consistently throw strikes to be aggressively pushed through the system. He walked 6.75/9IP with Vancouver last year; this year, he's sitting at 4.14/9IP, which is reasonable.

Control is generally the last thing to come for a young power pitcher.

I completely agree with this. But that doesn't mean you just ignore it and move someone up multiple levels when it's still an issue.

Perdomo has been outstanding this year. I would love to see them move him to Dunedin and push him to New Hampshire relatively quickly if it works out. But trying to push him through to the majors seems kind of pointless. I would be absolutely shocked if he's a better option than Loup/Girodo/Venditte right now.