Sarnia Sting 2022 Off-season Thread

[Ferda11]

The only thing that makes sense to is that maybe moldenhauer is coming or they want to go get a really good player

It could very well be Moldenhauer coming over. It would create a log jam in the top 6. You can't have Voit, Dann, Burke, Hill, Sickic, Namestnikov, Vilmanis, Limpar-Lantz and potentially Moldenhauer, playing outside the top 6 without creating major conflict with ice time. Something would have to give no?

 

[OHL4Life]

Thats my only hope with this. From the article it seems Dann was happy here. Hes been training with a large crop of the roster all summer, is playing top line, pp & on a hopeful contender. If its for a signee then it'll make sense but currently it makes none.


Voit, Dann, Moldenhaur, Burke, Namestnikov, Vilmanis, Lantz, Sikic all probably deserve top-6 minutes so it would make some sense one has to go. Moldenhaur would presumably play top line potentially taking Dann's spot.

sikic isnt a top 6 on a good team, hes ok but hes not outstanding, and you dont even know if lantz can play yet. whats wrong with having those two on a good third line?

 

[Ferda11]

@StingUpdates - exactly, if all this was just to free up some space and recoup picks to use later, then trade Burke and Hill 100000% over Dann. Use the OA spots for an upgrade on D if needed. This ain't it..at least not yet.

 

[StingUpdates]

sikic isnt a top 6 on a good team, hes ok but hes not outstanding, and you dont even know if lantz can play yet. whats wrong with having those two on a good third line?

Sikic had a 46 point pace with Sarnia given top-6 minutes. this after a slow start too (pointless his first 6 games w/Sting).. Full year playing with even better line mates he will push for 55+ points. Is dominant along the wall & arguably our best 2way F.

But your point is fair with Lantz still TBD but the Sting expect him to be a legitimate player for them. trust me I want them to not have done this haha. Dann might have been my favourite player honestly. Have to see if they have something else cooking or if they just made a massive blunder.

 

[StingUpdates]

@StingUpdates - exactly, if all this was just to free up some space and recoup picks to use later, then trade Burke and Hill 100000% over Dann. Use the OA spots for an upgrade on D if needed. This ain't it..at least not yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is still them trying to be a bit tougher, harder to play. I love Dann but he did play a bit perimeter, soft at times & as we've all complained about 100x they got bullied vs WSR, FLT last year cause of the lack of size. Burke a bit more tough, willing to do the dirty stuff.

This does give them enough picks later on to really go big name hunting which I imagine they will. But damn dude. This is a stunner. Hopefully they have something coming & they didn't just start off their season with a major blunder.

 

[Ferda11]

sikic isnt a top 6 on a good team, hes ok but hes not outstanding, and you dont even know if lantz can play yet. whats wrong with having those two on a good third line?

I don't know...maybe telling the kid leaving his home halfway around the world for Sarnia, Ontario to play for the Sarnia Sting in front of 2300 fans, that he's playing 3rd line mins when he was playing top mins at home?

 

[OHL4Life]

Sikic had a 46 point pace with Sarnia given top-6 minutes. this after a slow start too (pointless his first 6 games w/Sting).. Full year playing with even better line mates he will push for 55+ points. Is dominant along the wall & arguably our best 2way F.

But your point is fair with Lantz still TBD but the Sting expect him to be a legitimate player for them. trust me I want them to not have done this haha. Dann might have been my favourite player honestly. Have to see if they have something else cooking or if they just made a massive blunder.

ill disagree with sikic, i bet lots of teams have guys like him not play top 6. hes one of those guys if hes your 7/8th best forward, great. if hes your 6th, not so great. on owen sound or flint hes probably 9?
i guess its just where your team is at. he was on guelph and he played a low depth role, which is probably what he is.

I don't know...maybe telling the kid leaving his home halfway around the world for Sarnia, Ontario to play for the Sarnia Sting in front of 2300 fans, that he's playing 3rd line mins when he was playing top mins at home?

so the kid comes in and regardless of his abilities plays top 6? how does that work? players should earn what they get, not given to them. imports get scratched all the time if they are not good enough. youve seen it in sarnia with your imports that came from a long ways away, if they are not good enough, they dont play. there are no promises.

 

[Ferda11]

ill disagree with sikic, i bet lots of teams have guys like him not play top 6. hes one of those guys if hes your 7/8th best forward, great. if hes your 6th, not so great. on owen sound or flint hes probably 9?
i guess its just where your team is at.



so the kid comes in and regardless of his abilities plays top 6? how does that work? players should earn what they get, not given to them. imports get scratched all the time if they are not good enough.

First of all, he obviously has the ability or he wouldn't be sought after to play hockey on the other side of the world for one of the top developmental leagues for producing NHLer's. So stop pretending he can't play hockey or has zero ability. I would say almost all import picks are picks that teams expect to transpire to top 6 forwards or top 4 D immediately. These aren't 15/16 yo rookies coming over. They have already played against the same age level as the CHL back home. They don't come over for 3rd line mins, and when that happens, they don't stick around very long. I'm not saying it's right, but it's the way it goes.

 

[OHL4Life]

First of all, he obviously has the ability or he wouldn't be sought after to play hockey on the other side of the world for one of the top developmental leagues for producing NHLer's. So stop pretending he can't play hockey or has zero ability. I would say almost all import picks are picks that teams expect to transpire to top 6 forwards or top 4 D immediately. These aren't 15/16 yo rookies coming over. They have already played against the same age level as the CHL back home. They don't come over for 3rd line mins, and when that happens, they don't stick around very long. I'm not saying it's right, but it's the way it goes.

my point is normally 03 forwards who are thought to be high end are not playing u20 in sweden, please point me to those 18/19 year olds in sweden who end up being high end? i dont think youll find that many.

secondly, the top development leagues for producing nhlers is the swedish elite league, he wasnt playing there, and was not going to play there from what ive read. he was not playing in the second division.

he could be great, he could be bad, all im saying is its could, using hyperbole to suggest im saying anything else is dishonest.

 

[StingUpdates]

So with Dann out projected lines: (imo)

Burke-Lantz-Voit
Vilmanis-Namestnikov-Sikic
Filak-MacDonell-Martone
XXX-Wainwright-McIntyre

X: Lalkin, Cooksey, Doherty, Vogelsberg, Harper, Degelas.

Instantly you look at that roster & think who's gonna be the scorers. Burke, Voit, Vilmanis are the only 3 I can say with absolute confidence score 20+. I think Namestnikov, Sikic can but both gotta shoot more if they are to hit it. Martone could given proper ice time. Filak, MacDonell could with a bigger role but tough when your L3 all year with limited PP time.

Lantz is talked about as a playmaker, high IQ player so not sure what he'll bring for shooting but if he plays with Voit all year he would have around 20 id imagine.

Still a very deep lineup especially if Martone is an impact rookie, one of those extra's takes a step (you'd hope at least one does) & the two imports come as advertised, but it's not as deadly as it was with Dann who I think would've pushed for 40 goals playing with Voit all year. The only good thing to this deal is Martone probably plays T9 now. But if Moldenhauer isn't coming ill be very disappointed, confused with this move today.

 

[SpaceMan81]

First of all, he obviously has the ability or he wouldn't be sought after to play hockey on the other side of the world for one of the top developmental leagues for producing NHLer's. So stop pretending he can't play hockey or has zero ability. I would say almost all import picks are picks that teams expect to transpire to top 6 forwards or top 4 D immediately. These aren't 15/16 yo rookies coming over. They have already played against the same age level as the CHL back home. They don't come over for 3rd line mins, and when that happens, they don't stick around very long. I'm not saying it's right, but it's the way it goes.

Last year they had Geci, Tarasevich and Malyavin and either they weren't very good or got buried quickly by the coach. I wouldn't put too much stock in Euros coming over and being guaranteed minutes. Geci never really got anything but 4th line and press box before being moved.
You guys have watched enough hockey to know that some players come in and make a huge leap in their second year. McIntyre is 2 years older than Martone, physically bigger, has a year under his belt at this level, and rookies tend to have to work their way up throughout their 1st year-- MacDonnel was on the 4th line for the first half of last year. So there is my sleeper pick for top 9 mins and PP. I think Namestikov will also make a huge leap. He will be a better OHL player than Voit by mid-season. Sikic is what he is. With the amount of ice time he got, I want a more productive player in my top 6. He is a great 3rd line checking winger with good defensive awareness. Lastly, I would keep Hill over Burke any day of the week. IMO he just does more things well. Tough losing Dann..... That's a headscratcher unless he wanted out.

 

[Ogie Junior]

I'm not moving Dann even if McDavid in his prime is coming over. Got to think he wanted to move on regardless of what is said publicly. There is a hell of a lot of players I'm trading before I get to Dann.

 

[StingUpdates]

I'm not moving Dann even if McDavid in his prime is coming over. Got to think he wanted to move on regardless of what is said publicly. There is a hell of a lot of players I'm trading before I get to Dann.

As I said above it wouldn't surprise me if they wanna be a bit more "playoff ready" with the roster.

Not saying i agree with it but having Voit, Dann, Namestnikov in your T6 is limiting vs teams like FLT/OS who are big, physical, mean to play against.

But u don't move a guy like Dann just to create space for youngsters. Really hoping they have something else in mind. Cause unless they go after the top guy at the deadline/are signing Moldenhauer what the hell was the point.

 

[Dougie Daryl Clark]

I knew Seca would move out a top 6 left shot forward for his new imports but Dann was prob third on my list. I'm pretty sure he wanted to stay as Niagara is a dumpster fire. My guess is Seca uses those picks for a big name pickup before the trade deadline. I'm thinking like Wyatt Johnston, Brandt Clarke or Tyson Foerster...

 

[OHL4Life]

I'm not moving Dann even if McDavid in his prime is coming over. Got to think he wanted to move on regardless of what is said publicly. There is a hell of a lot of players I'm trading before I get to Dann.

thats what im saying, why move your second best forward to make room for guys who have never played for you? something is up

 

[SarniaStingFan]

This is what happens when you tie up picks in a player that may not come (Moldenhauer). They were never going to have enough picks to make a big splash at the trade deadline this coming season without making a trade for some picks. It doesn't surprise me that it was Dann that was traded. As much as he was a great goal scorer he didn't fit into Letang's system. Obviously the Sting are counting on their two imports Vilmanis/Limpar Lantz to be top 6 contributors and players like Filak/MacDonell/Namestnikov/Sikic to make a jump. As others have mentioned maybe this trade is to make room for a player not currently committed to the team. One name that hasn't been mentioned is Gabriel Perreault, Jacob's brother. Maybe he leaves the USNDTP to play on a contending Sting team in his draft year.

 

[Devin]

I knew Seca would move out a top 6 left shot forward for his new imports but Dann was prob third on my list. I'm pretty sure he wanted to stay as Niagara is a dumpster fire. My guess is Seca uses those picks for a big name pickup before the trade deadline. I'm thinking like Wyatt Johnston, Brandt Clarke or Tyson Foerster...

Tyson Foerster is an OA. He’s not coming back.

Barrie won’t be selling anyway

 

[StingUpdates]

This is what happens when you tie up picks in a player that may not come (Moldenhauer). They were never going to have enough picks to make a big splash at the trade deadline this coming season without making a trade for some picks. It doesn't surprise me that it was Dann that was traded. As much as he was a great goal scorer he didn't fit into Letang's system. Obviously the Sting are counting on their two imports Vilmanis/Limpar Lantz to be top 6 contributors and players like Filak/MacDonell/Namestnikov/Sikic to make a jump. As others have mentioned maybe this trade is to make room for a player not currently committed to the team. One name that hasn't been mentioned is Gabriel Perreault, Jacob's brother. Maybe he leaves the USNDTP to play on a contending Sting team in his draft year.

Solid take that I agree with for the most part. I think Letang's system is in part the way it is because the team lacked skill. He said that a ton of times throughout last season that they didn't have a roster that could play a risk taking/super creative style which was accurate. This years team should be much more skilled/able to score.

They clearly have confidence/faith in the Vilmanis/Lantz/MacDonell/Filak/Sikic/Martone & it's not that I don't, I do, but guys with Dann's scoring ability aren't super easy to find. He's a threat every time he gets on the ice. Last year was only his first season & he was one off 30 goals on a terrible team that couldn't score.. There's a real chance he scores upwards of 40 goals this year then u flip him next summer coming off a huge year.

I think it'll be a blunder of epic proportions if they don't have something lined up with a Moldenhauer. You don't trade older players away so younger guys can play more when your in an all-in/go for it year. Realistically come the deadline there's a chance we r sitting here saying man we need true sniper on Voit's wing or Namestnikov depending on where Vilmanis plays. So unless they give up every pick they have + Martone for a Wyatt Johnston/Shane Wright (if either are back) they'd be practically replacing the hole Dann leaves.

Perreault's original plan was 2 years in the USA then a good chance he comes here next season (2023-2024) so im not sure he leaves that especially cause its no guarantee he gets good minutes here as a 17 yr old.

Here is Sarnia's draft board for the next 5 years (I believe) after the Thornton deal.

2023-
1st
2nd (FLT)
No 3rd or 4th
5th* (Moldenhauer), two 6ths
No 7th
Have all 8-15 picks + a conditional 15th (Nolet, KIT) but it wasn't released what that became or what the condition was.

2024-
1st
2nd* (Moldenhauer), 3rd* (Moldenhauer), 3rd (NIA)
4th, 5th, No 6th
7th, 8th, Two 9ths, 10th, Two 11ths, 12-15

2025-
1st
2nd* (Moldenhauer), 3rd* (Moldenhauer), 4th* (Moldenhauer)
5th, 6th, Two 7ths, Have all 8-15

2026-

Have every pick + BAR 5th but we sent a conditional 5th back to BAR which I assume is based on if Thornton back as OA & if he isn't we swap 5ths.

2027-
Have every pick

From a drafting standpoint they are fine. Have the normal 15 picks for opening 3 rounds over the 5 & average 15 picks a draft. Problem is we have 6 picks (Four 2nds/3rds) glued to Moldenhauer that we can not trade. Gotta think that'll loom large come trade deadline (if he doesnt come) as they simply won't be able match what other teams are offering with only one 2nd/one 3rd available to trade in the next 3 drafts.

One thing that they do have tho is young talent. Depending on the yr they are having Wainwright & Cooksey could make up for some picks we lack (think Ang or Dineen trade with Hinz/Henderson.) Then if your swinging big (McTavish big) u have Martone or MacDonell. Though I really dislike trading recent 1sts especially with our track record.

Add a 2nd (KIT) in 2023, 2nd (OSH) in 2025 & a 5th (NIA) in 2026 after the deal.

 

[StingUpdates]

Sting trade Dann to IceDogs for three draft picks

The Sarnia Sting traded 29-goal scorer Nolan Dann to the Niagara IceDogs for three draft picks Tuesday.

www.theobserver.ca

Seca on why he made the move. They clearly want Martone playing top-9 minutes. As we've said they think pretty highly of the two imports & what kind of impact they'll have. Honestly the vibe I get is they don't view Dann as highly as I (and some of you I think) do.

The quote that gives me those vibes is “He had a strong season. His value was clearly really high,” Seca said. “That return is excellent. The two seconds and a fifth for a player like Nolan in the middle of summer is a great return."

That sounds like a GM who likes the player but doesn't love him. Which once again *may* double back to the teams skill players being smaller, little perimeter based in their play & them not being thrilled with it. No chance u move Voit & Namestnikov is younger & a centre. So that leaves Dann. The final few quotes also definitely give off the vibe they are gonna be rather aggressive come the deadline.

I see the reasoning. It makes sense. It doesn't change the expectation they'll compete for the division or conference. They now have enough assets to go all-in for a MVP caliber player which is massive come January. But damn it's a tough one to accept. They are putting a TON of faith in Martone, the imports along with 2nd year jumps (Namestnikov, MacDonell, Filak,) so we'll see if they prove him right or if this move ages badly.

 

[Generalsupdates]

I see the reasoning. It makes sense. It doesn't change the expectation they'll compete for the division or conference. They now have enough assets to go all-in for a MVP caliber player which is massive come January. But damn it's a tough one to accept. They are putting a TON of faith in Martone, the imports along with 2nd year jumps (Namestnikov, MacDonell, Filak,) so we'll see if they prove him right or if this move ages badly.

Do they? You don't often get an MVP calibre player if you're not willing to trade your rookie 1st rounder, which it sounds like SAR won't be. Going to be a lot of good teams this year it seems so likely some of them will be willing to trade their 1st rounders which will put them ahead for those MVP candidates in the trade line. If a Brennan Othmann type becomes available, I don't see a team really being in the mix without offering their most recent 1st rounder

 

[StingUpdates]

Do they? You don't often get an MVP calibre player if you're not willing to trade your rookie 1st rounder, which it sounds like SAR won't be. Going to be a lot of good teams this year it seems so likely some of them will be willing to trade their 1st rounders which will put them ahead for those MVP candidates in the trade line. If a Brennan Othmann type becomes available, I don't see a team really being in the mix without offering their most recent 1st rounder

Might not be willing to now but if come January they are looking like a truly top team that with 1 big addition would be primed for a run they may do it. Especially if it's the decider in them getting the player over OS, FLT, KIT who they'd play in the playoffs.

 

[dirty12]

Might not be willing to now but if come January they are looking like a truly top team that with 1 big addition would be primed for a run they may do it. Especially if it's the decider in them getting the player over OS, FLT, KIT who they'd play in the playoffs.

Is OS really veteran enough to be ‘all-in’? The core of the team seems to be 2004-05 born. NB is kinda similar, but have four maybe five really good 2002-03 born with a possible opening for another OA.

 

[OHL4Life]

Is OS really veteran enough to be ‘all-in’? The core of the team seems to be 2004-05 born. NB is kinda similar, but have four maybe five really good 2002-03 born with a possible opening for another OA.

depends on your definition of all in is? there are in a position to add and try to win, much like flint. they have point a game guys who could be on their third line. maybe not 'all in' but really why would you not make a run for two years. the entire team is around for that period.

 

[StingUpdates]

After thinking part of the reasoning for the Dann trade was they didn't want so many smaller guys playing big roles I decided to take a look at the final 8 teams rosters for last years playoffs.

Combined the 8 rosters had 7 forwards who consistently played that were under 5'10". Of the 7 only 3 played significant minutes for their team. The rest were depth guys. Flint had the most with 2 (Giroux, Kressler) but they also had some absolute beasts in Keppen, Piercey, Othmann, Bertuzzi who are all bigger, physical guys. Sarnia doesn't have guys as mean/physical as them to help out those smaller guys.

Sarnia with Dann would have 3 in their top-6, four in their top-9 & Wainwright on line 4. So potentially 5 Fs under 5'10" + there's a chance Cooksey, Lalkin or Harper make the team so it could be up to 6 or 7. So they'd nearly match what all 8 teams had combined..

Hockey has changed but we see it every single season. When you get to the playoffs you have to be able to play physical, handle the other teams physicality, win those board battles & hold up over 2, 3, 4 rounds if you go on a run. We saw it first hand vs Windsor. 5on5 we couldn't generate any traffic, get to the net, make it tough on a average goalie. Things you absolutely have to do to win in the playoffs.

I for sure may be grasping at straws but I'll say the deal makes more sense than I first thought & i've come around to it more. End of the day it'll still come down to the imports, Martone, 2nd-year guys being as impactful as the Sting expect/hope & come the deadline Seca will have to make good with the picks he's acquired this summer.

 

[Ferda11]

After thinking part of the reasoning for the Dann trade was they didn't want so many smaller guys playing big roles I decided to take a look at the final 8 teams rosters for last years playoffs.

Combined the 8 rosters had 7 forwards who consistently played that were under 5'10". Of the 7 only 3 played significant minutes for their team. The rest were depth guys. Flint had the most with 2 (Giroux, Kressler) but they also had some absolute beasts in Keppen, Piercey, Othmann, Bertuzzi who are all bigger, physical guys. Sarnia doesn't have guys as mean/physical as them to help out those smaller guys.

Sarnia with Dann would have 3 in their top-6, four in their top-9 & Wainwright on line 4. So potentially 5 Fs under 5'10" + there's a chance Cooksey, Lalkin or Harper make the team so it could be up to 6 or 7. So they'd nearly match what all 8 teams had combined..

Hockey has changed but we see it every single season. When you get to the playoffs you have to be able to play physical, handle the other teams physicality, win those board battles & hold up over 2, 3, 4 rounds if you go on a run. We saw it first hand vs Windsor. 5on5 we couldn't generate any traffic, get to the net, make it tough on a average goalie. Things you absolutely have to do to win in the playoffs.

I for sure may be grasping at straws but I'll say the deal makes more sense than I first thought & i've come around to it more. End of the day it'll still come down to the imports, Martone, 2nd-year guys being as impactful as the Sting expect/hope & come the deadline Seca will have to make good with the picks he's acquired this summer.

Fair enough, It's an odd trade that no one saw coming. Trying to make sense of it is normal lol.

I agree about the lack of size. It really isn't much of an issue in today's game anymore, until you get to playoffs it seems. It makes sense though, the battles are more intense, the days off are shorter. It's just hard to justify sending a guaranteed 30+ goal scorer packing, when that is usually the type of guy you want to bring in to help contend. I think this is a trade we play the "wait and see" game with and come back to as the season rolls on.