Samsonov - Why not us?

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I'd rather gamble with these two guys then sign Jack to $5.5 x 4 or whatever it was, and I really liked Campbell, and Andersen too....

Goalie market is what it is so I think a gamble there isn't a bad idea on the short term.

 

[Drytoast]

It seems every time we have had a player with any potential, as soon as they moved on they reached it elsewhere.

I am here to ask, why not us for a change? A first round pick, formerly in the same tier of goalie prospect as Shesterkin and Sorokin. Goalies always take more time to develop. Why can't this guy become a true starter for us?

Playing great in pre-season

It has been us. Incase you havn't noticed our cast offs are getting signed 5 for 5. That's not cheap.

 

[Stephen]

Our track record with cast offs hasn't been perfect but Michael Bunting, David Kampf and Jack Campbell himself were good acquisitions that reached a new level after joining the Leafs.

 

[zeke]

Our track record with cast offs hasn't been perfect but Michael Bunting, David Kampf and Jack Campbell himself were good acquisitions that reached a new level after joining the Leafs.

Don't forget Hyman and Holl.

 

[Stephen]

Don't forget Hyman and Holl.

Yeah, could consider them too, though I usually credit our development system for their growth. They’re more or less home grown.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I mean...I was and am still very high on this guy. I think he'll be our goalie tbh but let's see, I hope he doesnt disappoint our team.

 

[TheRumble]

The word on Samsonov from Washington's fanabse is that he is a goalie who overly relies on his athleticism and reflexes and often overly compensates on his positioning. That's a fixable issue.

I don't know much about goalie development or coaching but Mitch Korn used to be the guy who developed goalies in Washington during the Trotz era and he has a long history of coaching Vezina candiates: Hasek, Rinne, Saaros, Grubauer, Varlamov, Vanacek, Sorokin, Lenher are all names under his belt.

Not too surprisingly, Washington's goaltending began to suffer upon his departure and the Islanders goaltending improved almost immediately after his hire.

 

[hotpaws]

The word on Samsonov from Washington's fanabse is that he is a goalie who overly relies on his athleticism and reflexes and often overly compensates on his positioning. That's a fixable issue.

I don't know much about goalie development or coaching but Mitch Korn used to be the guy who developed goalies in Washington during the Trotz era and he has a long history of coaching Vezina candiates: Hasek, Rinne, Saaros, Grubauer, Varlamov, Vanacek, Sorokin, Lenher are all names under his belt.

Not too surprisingly, Washington's goaltending began to suffer upon his departure and the Islanders goaltending improved almost immediately after his hire.

Trotz also had a lot of “luck” with getting good goaltending .

 

[TheRumble]

Trotz also had a lot of “luck” with getting good goaltending .

Do you just feel the need to turn every thread into garbage? Like I come in here, post a quality post and then you respond with this trash and pretend you have CTE to excuse it.

 

[Shooter2x]

Don't forget Hyman and Holl.

Hyman was not a cast off.

That was an amazing find that deserves a different (higher) tier of praise.

 

[zeke]

Hyman was not a cast off.

That was an amazing find that deserves a different (higher) tier of praise.

Not sure how the Hyman trade isn't in the same category as the marchment trade.

 

[Shooter2x]

Not sure how the Hyman trade isn't in the same category as the marchment trade.

It's definitely not.

Panthers were trying to sign Hyman and couldn't come to an agreement. Dubas identified Hyman in that "that's my guy" kinda way and brought him in.

I'm no longer in the business of wanting Dubas as GM but will not steal any credit away from his Hyman trade. I can't objectively let that trade fall into malgin territory

 

[zeke]

It's definitely not.

Panthers were trying to sign Hyman and couldn't come to an agreement. Dubas identified Hyman in that "that's my guy" kinda way and brought him in.

I'm no longer in the business of wanting Dubas as GM but will not steal any credit away from his Hyman trade. I can't objectively let that trade fall into malgin territory

They traded 23yr old Hyman PLUS futures for 23yr old Greg McKegg (3 nhl gms).

We traded 24yr old Marchment for 24yr old Malgin (100+ nhl gms).

 

[Shooter2x]

They traded 23yr old Hyman PLUS futures for 23yr old Greg McKegg.

That doesn't matter.

Dubas knew Hyman was a gem just in need of a chance to show it. His vision for Hyman doesn't get diminished just because Hymans price tag wasn't expensive. In fact getting Hyman when he cost nothing with the hunch of what you think he will become makes the trade even more great.

Also the conditional pic was in case Hyman gave us the same issues of rejecting our contract offers and became a UFA. We never received the pick obviously

 

[Shooter2x]

They traded 23yr old Hyman PLUS futures for 23yr old Greg McKegg (3 nhl gms).

We traded 24yr old Marchment for 24yr old Malgin (100+ nhl gms).

I see your edit but we are arguing if Hyman was a cast off. He was not. We can simplify this with the conditional pick. Remove Hyman from the equation and just state cast offs don't get conditional picks attached to them in the event you can't come to terms on a contract. And the other team doesn't try to sign the cast off before trading them. They just cast them away. Hyman would have remained a Panther if he agreed to sign their offer.

 

[zeke]

I see your edit but we are arguing if Hyman was a cast off. He was not. We can simplify this with the conditional pick. Remove Hyman from the equation and just state cast offs don't get conditional picks attached to them in the event you can't come to terms on a contract. And the other team doesn't try to sign the cast off before trading them. They just cast them away. Hyman would have remained a Panther if he agreed to sign their offer.

I don't get it - how does Florida ADDING to Hyman in a trade for cast-off mckegg make Hyman MORE valuable?

 

[Shooter2x]

I don't get it - how does Florida ADDING to Hyman in a trade for cast-off mckegg make Hyman MORE valuable?

I said that. Florida added to Hyman conditionally in the event we faced similar issues trying to sign him. You need to remember Florida was trying to sign Hyman before they moved to salvaging assets for him when it was clear Hyman was heading to UFA. Hyman had no trade value, no NHL experience, nobody even knew who he was except keen eyes at the time like Dubas, so the fact they got anything at all for him more highlights the potential Dubas saw in him.

Again, It's not about value. Dubas identified Hyman as a sleeper ready to take off and smartly took advantage of Panthers not being able to sign him. You can even say Dubas overpaid to get his guy. Dubas himself joked saying he thought Tallon was pulling a fast one on him asking for McKegg.

 

[zeke]

I said that. Florida added to Hyman conditionally in the event we faced similar issues trying to sign him. You need to remember Florida was trying to sign Hyman before they moved to salvaging assets for him when it was clear Hyman was heading to UFA. Hyman had no trade value, no NHL experience, nobody even knew who he was expect keen eyes at the time like Dubas, so the fact they got anything at all for him more highlights the potential Dubas saw in him.

Again, It's not about value. Dubas identified Hyman as a sleeper ready to take off and smartly took advantage of Panthers not being able to sign him. You can even say Dubas overpaid to get his guy. Dubas himself joked saying he thought Tallon was pulling a fast one on him asking for McKegg.

How is this different than the Panthers targeting Marchment tho?

 

[Shooter2x]

How is this different than the Panthers targeting Marchment tho?

Do we know who targeted who? Did Dubas identify Malgin as a target and used the poster boy of our new development system to get him, or did Panthers identify Marchment and leveraged Malgin's NHL experience and underlying possession metrics?

In either case both teams had no problem swapping the players. We got lucky with Hyman in that Panthers wanted to keep Hyman but Hyman made them cast offs and not the other way around.

You don't need to do any investigation for Hyman. Dubas identified Hyman as his guy and got him. To simplify it even further, It's not the same "vibe" as Malgin. I keep emphasizing Hyman became one of "Dubas' guys" when Dubas targeted him. The way Leafs utilized Hyman, the players they put him beside and let him grow from stone hands to a 20 goal scorer, none of it is the same as marchment for malgin.

 

[zeke]

Do we know who targeted who? Did Dubas identify Malgin as a target and used the poster boy of our new development system to get him, or did Panthers identify Marchment and leveraged Malgin's NHL experience and underlying possession metrics?

In either case both teams had no problem swapping the players. We got lucky with Hyman in that Panthers wanted to keep Hyman but Hyman made them cast offs and not the other way around.

You don't need to do any investigation for Hyman. Dubas identified Hyman as his guy and got him. To simplify it even further, It's not the same "vibe" as Malgin. I keep emphasizing Hyman became one of "Dubas' guys" when Dubas targeted him. The way Leafs utilized Hyman, the players they put him beside and let him grow from stone hands to a 20 goal scorer, none of it is the same as marchment for malgin.

Panthers wanted to keep Hyman so badly that they had to add to him to trade for Greg mckegg?

 

[Shooter2x]

Panthers wanted to keep Hyman so badly that they had to add to him to trade for Greg mckegg?

lol are you trolling me or something? This is the third time now I am stating the conditional pick was added in the event Hyman didn't sign. Hyman was declining Panthers offers so there was a slight chance he wanted to become a UFA instead of negotiating with one team.

We never received that pick because Hyman ended up signing.

I think I've proved beyond reasonable doubt that the Hyman trade is not equal to marchment for malgin.

From Hyman himself: I think early in my career — I try not to listen to the media — but it was like, ‘Why is he playing with those guys type of thing?’

Leafs believed in Hyman fully when they targeted him. Stop diminishing this great find.

 

[zeke]

lol are you trolling me or something? This is the third time now I am stating the conditional pick was added in the event Hyman didn't sign. Hyman was declining Panthers offers so there was a slight chance he wanted to become a UFA instead of negotiating with one team.

We never received that pick because Hyman ended up signing.

I think I've proved beyond reasonable doubt that the Hyman trade is not equal to marchment for malgin.

From Hyman himself: I think early in my career — I try not to listen to the media — but it was like, ‘Why is he playing with those guys type of thing?’

Leafs believed in Hyman fully when they targeted him. Stop diminishing this great find.

I know you keep repeating it as if it makes sense, but having to add something to your side of the deal makes the player you're trading less valuable in your eyes, not more valuable.

 

[Shooter2x]

I know you keep repeating it as if it makes sense, but having to add something to your side of the deal makes the player you're trading less valuable in your eyes, not more valuable.

The pick was added as compensation if Leafs couldn't come to terms with Hyman. (You're borderline trolling if we have to re-visit why the two sides think there's a chance Hyman doesn't sign with the Leafs either*). Read this as many times as necessary until it finally makes sense. This is not my opinion. It is fact.

We'll agree to disagree now.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

New team, new defence, new goalie coach.

Absolutely no reason Samsanov couldn't be the next great Leaf goalie, the talent and athleticism are there. He was a long, long way to go in other regards but he will never get a better opportunity than he is here in Toronto.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Am I still asleep and dreaming this convo. An anti-dubas guy going hard to preserve Dubas' Hyman accolade against a co-captain of the pro-dubas team?

I officially have no idea how the world works anymore.