Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Yeah, I got nuthin' ....

[Ogrezilla]

Sounds boring, lets go trade for Kunitz and repurpose him at 3C.

There's nothing boring about Greg McKegg with a leg for an arm and an arm for a leg at 3C.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'd say a few things factor in to it.

1. Sheary is the better scorer for sure, but he really doesn't bring much else. Rust is a guy that is helping the team even when not scoring.
2. We have more guys that score than we have guys who can bring all the things Rust can bring imo.
3. While Sheary has dropped off in both playoff runs, Rust has stepped up huge.

I'd say they are on a similar level overall. But if you made me pick one to keep for the next 5 years, I'd pick Rust.

These are all great points, Ogre. I guess I'm just saying I can see Rust passing Sheary in the near future, especially because he's got wheels, more size and a touch more physicality. If he can elevate his production he could become a great Kunitz-esque complimentary wing.

That said, I think Sheary has way more value at the moment in terms of what we could get for him and what he'll bring during the regular season. By all means, Sheary is not irreplaceable, especially for the points you raise. But he's not less valuable, IMO. I dunno, it could be just semantics, but that's how I'd look at them on the roster.

Honestly speaking, I wouldn't be heartbroken if Sheary was shipped out as part of a deal, but if no good deal is there you keep him around and shuffle him around the lineup as necessary or as insurance if Guenzel stumbles.

edit: just saw your ninja edits, and I agree. But I think WHY Rust has been more effective in the postseason is size-- he's got a solid 20lbs on Sheary, so he's just better built for the postseason. Sheary got outmuscled a ton the last two postseasons and took some serious beatings because he's just not big enough. That's my worry.

 

[Peat]

I buy into the theory that Sheary's play-off struggles are a bit linked to LBIs, which of course is a bit linked to his size maybe, but we'll see. Their play-off production stats are quite close though and while Rust loves the game 7s, Sheary loves the finals, which is also useful.

Tbh I think we need another season of data to settle this argument and am quite taken with the idea of keeping both.

There's nothing boring about Greg McKegg with a leg for an arm and an arm for a leg at 3C.

But that sounds vaguely sensible. Down with that sort of thing.

p.s. Lower Body Injuries would be a great punk band name.

 

[Ogrezilla]

These are all great points, Ogre. I guess I'm just saying I can see Rust passing Sheary in the near future, especially because he's got wheels, more size and a touch more physicality. If he can elevate his production he could become a great Kunitz-esque complimentary wing.

That said, I think Sheary has way more value at the moment in terms of what we could get for him and what he'll bring during the regular season. By all means, Sheary is not irreplaceable, especially for the points you raise. But he's not less valuable, IMO. I dunno, it could be just semantics, but that's how I'd look at them on the roster.

Honestly speaking, I wouldn't be heartbroken if Sheary was shipped out as part of a deal, but if no good deal is there you keep him around and shuffle him around the lineup as necessary or as insurance if Guenzel stumbles.

edit: just saw your ninja edits, and I agree. But I think WHY Rust has been more effective in the postseason is size-- he's got a solid 20lbs on Sheary, so he's just better built for the postseason. Sheary got outmuscled a ton the last two postseasons and took some serious beatings because he's just not big enough. That's my worry.

I agree with all of that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I love a good Father Ted reference.

 

[Peat]

I wasn't expecting anyone to get that reference - that's kinda made my day

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Keep Sheary and Rust. Deal Hornqvist and Hagelin (eventually).

When the time is right, of course. And by that, I mean when Sprong and Aston-Reese are deemed ready for prime time.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I'd like to see a smaller deal for Sheahan. ex. Pouliot gets a chance in DET for him.
Waive Rowney. Very likely slips thru waivers imo and most likely out of him, Kuhn, Archie, Pooh...

Jake-Sid-Sheary
Hags-G-Phil
Rust-Sheahan-Horny
Wilson-McKegg-Reaves
Kuhn
Archie

Dumo-Tang
Cole-Schultz
Maatta-Hunwick
Ruh

Muzz
Niemi

Thats your max 23 man roster.

C Depth if Rowney passes waivers:
Rowney/Blueger/Johnson

D depth sans Pooh:
Corrado, Czuczman, Trotman, Tinordi, Summers, Bengtsson

And the 3C search continues so Sheahan settles in @ 4C/13thF.

 

[Peat]

I would far rather take the risk with Archibald than with Rowney and also think he's the lesser risk of getting picked up. Even if he wasn't though, I'd rather risk the winger than the centre.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We'll probably lose a couple forwards to injury in preseason before we even have to worry about waiving anyone.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Well, which ever one they waive, i just hope they get thru.
Shero would swipe Archie or Kuhn in a hot second.
Rowney...not so sure, imo.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Keep Sheary and Rust. Deal Hornqvist and Hagelin (eventually).

When the time is right, of course. And by that, I mean when Sprong and Aston-Reese are deemed ready for prime time.

What if ZAR is never ready for prime time? I see a lot of posters assuming an awful lot about him. He may never be an NHL player let alone a top six player. And even if he did find a way to contribute like a top 6 player, can he physically handle it?

There's a reason there's only a few guys like PH in the league.

 

[MrBrightside]

The amount of people that obsess over line combinations on this forum is astonishing to me. You'd think that after all the angst last year over where Kunitz or whomever was playing in January and how it turned out would suggest that worrying about this stuff in SEPTEMBER is probably not all that useful. The lines will change a million times. People will get hurt. People will come and go. I really don't understand the obsession with it.

 

[Peat]

What if ZAR is never ready for prime time? I see a lot of posters assuming an awful lot about him. He may never be an NHL player let alone a top six player. And even if he did find a way to contribute like a top 6 player, can he physically handle it?

There's a reason there's only a few guys like PH in the league.

Then the plan changes.

That said, the continual reports about ZAR from scouts, the organisation, reporters, everyone, is NHL ready. I'd say its odds against that he turns out not to be an NHL player.

He might not become a top 6 player, but that's okay as we've got plenty of top 6 calibre wingers, albeit all of a fairly similar model. Where we need him as a Hornqvist replacement is PP net front, and he can do that as a 3rd/4th liner.

Guess we'll find out whether he can constantly take that beating down the line.

 

[StaalForOne]

The amount of people that obsess over line combinations on this forum is astonishing to me. You'd think that after all the angst last year over where Kunitz or whomever was playing in January and how it turned out would suggest that worrying about this stuff in SEPTEMBER is probably not all that useful. The lines will change a million times. People will get hurt. People will come and go. I really don't understand the obsession with it.

I think the concern is more over who is going to be lost before the season begins. There are too many serviceable players subject to waivers, and not enough spots for said players.

 

[MrBrightside]

I think the concern is more over who is going to be lost before the season begins. There are too many serviceable players subject to waivers, and not enough spots for said players.

And that's a legitimate concern. No doubt. Although I think people who are worried about guys like Rowney or Archibald getting claimed overrate them a bit - pretty much everyone has a bunch of guys like them.

 

[Shady Machine]

What if ZAR is never ready for prime time? I see a lot of posters assuming an awful lot about him. He may never be an NHL player let alone a top six player. And even if he did find a way to contribute like a top 6 player, can he physically handle it?

There's a reason there's only a few guys like PH in the league.

Agreed. I'm pretty sick of seeing Hornqvist continually downplayed by some posters. He is still an integral part of this team. Let's cool our jets on trading him.

 

[Saints11]

I think the argument of Rust over Sheary is similar to the argument which could be raised on the 4th line when looking at Archie, Kuhnhackl, Wilson, and even Rowney, who I still think is better on the wing than at center. It becomes a question of versatility.

Although Sheary is a better shooter/scorer straight up than Rust; he does get totally lost in his own zone. Rust, who at times suffers from Tyler Kennedy syndrome in that he never met a shot he didn't like, uses his speed to play defense and is good on the PK. That gives him the versatility Sheary lacks and the reasoning why Sheary could be a HS in the cup finals.

Regarding the lower end guys, the defensive versatility is provided by Rowney and Kuhnhackl who are equally effective offensively and defensively, both could be used on the PK. It seemed in Sully's eyes .that Rowney had passed Kuhnhackl on the depth chart, based on last spring. It may still be true, with both ahead of crowd favorite Archibald, who seems more cut from the Sheary/Guentzal mold. Unlike the rest, Wilson seems to be cut from the Chris Kunitz cloth. He is a little more physical, opportunistic, and someone who will provide a key goal at the random time. Unlike S and G; I find myself surprised by Wilson goals. Like Kunitz, Wilson, the only true LW in the group, is a 3rd or 4th liner who could be effective in the top 6 because of his style, ala Rust.

I didn't even add in Reeves, who provides even more of a dimension than the rest. Again versatility.

The numbers game will catch up to at least two, possibly 3 to 4 of these guys. When a 3C is brought in, a McKegg might be keep as the 4 C, thus pushing Rowney back to the wing. Thus, further blocking 34 & 45. If Geno gets his way and Zaripov is brought in, Wilson is now blocked on the left side, if we assume Rust and Hags drop to 3 & 4.

All of this makes the next 2 weeks very interesting for the champs.

 

[BrokenStick]

I think the concern is more over who is going to be lost before the season begins. There are too many serviceable players subject to waivers, and not enough spots for said players.

And people vastly overestimate the chance of players getting claimed on waivers.

Seriously, every single year fans of all teams assume that every player who gets put on waivers is gone. Every time a player is put on waivers the fans freak out, fans of other teams scream that their they should claim him... and then he clears and no one understands why.

There is a significant reason for this. If a player is put on waivers it's because he isn't good enough to make his team, and he should be in the minors.

The key is that any team that would claim him has to keep him on their NHL roster!

So the claiming team has to believe that a player is good enough to play in the NHL *right now* when their original team just declared that he isn't. The new team can't send the guy to the minors without essentially giving him back to the original team as if he'd originally cleared.

This is also why you'll see a player traded after he clears waivers. A cleared player has way more value than one who is still on the NHL roster, even though fans immediately cry that they could have just gotten him for free when he was on waivers.

Waiver claims aren't free assets like people seem to think. They're desperation moves to fill holes. And often temporary.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is both more eloquently said and less snarky than I. But it's crazy to me how people don't even want to give that first line a chance because of reasons.

No line is going to be 100% on all the time, and in the playoffs, teams key in on lines that produce. That's the time to switch up lines. But why not actually give Sid a winger that actually has chemistry with him for once? There's an entire season to try line combinations if they falter. Might as well actually not shoot ourselves in the foot to start a season for once, IMO.

I don't think Rip or I are advocating to pull Jake from Crosby, just that if we bring in a marginal 3C we have a coach that likes to spread the talent and we will likely see either Jake or Kessel pushed to the third line to create more depth.

 

[Peat]

I don't think Rip or I are advocating to pull Jake from Crosby, just that if we bring in a marginal 3C we have a coach that likes to spread the talent and we will likely see either Jake or Kessel pushed to the third line to create more depth.

Given that Kessel is less glued to Malkin's wave length than Guentzel is to Crosby, and has more experience of driving his own line, that would seem to be the obvious place to start if we go there.

 

[Riptide]

So we should never give lines that have had chemistry in the past a chance because Bonino and Kessel and Hagelin each became a flaming pit of garbage for various other reasons?

No. I'm just saying that HBK is a perfect example as to why we shouldn't get married to a line just because it worked last year. I mean Sheary - Crosby - Hornqvist worked amazingly... yet everyone seems more than willing to toss that away... So the double standards when it comes to Guentzel seem a little odds is all.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This is both more eloquently said and less snarky than I. But it's crazy to me how people don't even want to give that first line a chance because of reasons.

No line is going to be 100% on all the time, and in the playoffs, teams key in on lines that produce. That's the time to switch up lines. But why not actually give Sid a winger that actually has chemistry with him for once? There's an entire season to try line combinations if they falter. Might as well actually not shoot ourselves in the foot to start a season for once, IMO.

This forum seems to have a thing about wanting to take away Crosby's best winger every time he shows a bit of chemistry with them "for the sake of balance".

It's just weird to me how people go from one extreme to the other. For years folks complain about how management has made Crosby (and Malkin) play with lesser players, failing to get them adequate wingers. But as soon as Sid finally has a winger with skill, people have to move him off Sid's line.

(Note: there may be some exaggeration when I say "every time")

 

[SEALBound]

No. I'm just saying that HBK is a perfect example as to why we shouldn't get married to a line just because it worked last year. I mean Sheary - Crosby - Hornqvist worked amazingly... yet everyone seems more than willing to toss that away... So the double standards when it comes to Guentzel seem a little odds is all.

I think that has more to do with Crosby not wanting to play with Hornqvist.

Sheary-Sid-Horny was murdering the league last year. Helped Sid get another Rocket.

I don't think we see that next year though for any significant amount of time no matter how much I want to.

Sheary-Sid-Horny
Jake-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-3C-Rust
Wilson-4C-Reaves

would be my more ideal realistic lineup. Sign Zaripov:

Jake-Sid-Horny
Zaripov-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary-3C-Rust
Hags-4C-Reaves

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

No. I'm just saying that HBK is a perfect example as to why we shouldn't get married to a line just because it worked last year. I mean Sheary - Crosby - Hornqvist worked amazingly... yet everyone seems more than willing to toss that away... So the double standards when it comes to Guentzel seem a little odds is all.

Everyone's dismissing any combination with Hornqvist because, for reasons only those to the club know, they don't want to play Hornqvist with Sid. So why even discuss something the club is almost dead set against?

Guentzel next to Sid, however, seems to be something the coaching staff likes very much. So it's not even remotely the same thing.