Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Yeah, I got nuthin' ....

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BlindWillyMcHurt

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May 31, 2004
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Ryan Reaves is here though.

Man, I really want to like him, but he seems so unnecessary.

I have to agree.

I get the thought process. I'm happy to wait and see how it pans out. And I also don't exactly see Sundqvist as some sort of Naslund-in-the-making (far from it). But I don't think they are going to get the bang for their buck they were hoping for. I see Reaves as an interesting player but ultimately still quite limited.
 

Gurglesons

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I have to agree.

I get the thought process. I'm happy to wait and see how it pans out. And I also don't exactly see Sundqvist as some sort of Naslund-in-the-making (far from it). But I don't think they are going to get the bang for their buck they were hoping for. I see Reaves as an interesting player but ultimately still quite limited.

It isn't really even the fact that Reaves is not a solid player. It is just like.. we could potentially have Rust as our 4th line RW if Sprong steps into the 3rd line role and impresses.
 

mpp9

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Dec 5, 2010
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Put Kuhn on waivers. Not seeing the problem.
 

PensandCaps

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May 22, 2015
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It isn't really even the fact that Reaves is not a solid player. It is just like.. we could potentially have Rust as our 4th line RW if Sprong steps into the 3rd line role and impresses.

And we'd have Kostin. And still have Sundqvist who was improving. Not like he was stagnating like DP. The trade really made no sense, since he isn't a clear upgrade over anybody and he is more expensive than a Kuhn, Rowney or Archibald. That's 3 RWs alone who are capable of bringing NHL play, and that's not including Sprong,ZAR or Johnson. I don't get why the pens thought they needed ANOTHER 4th line RW who isn't even an upgrade.

You could've even have used the 1st towards a centre or Dman. Like Scandella or something.
 
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SCPens

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Feb 9, 2008
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And we'd have Kostin. And still have Sundqvist who was improving. Not like he was stagnating like DP. The trade really made no sense, since he isn't a clear upgrade over anybody and he is more expensive than a Kuhn, Rowney or Archibald. That's 3 RWs alone who are capable of bringing NHL play, and that's not including Sprong,ZAR or Johnson. I don't get why the pens thought they needed ANOTHER 4th line RW who isn't even an upgrade.

Well let me try to shed a little light on this for you. Reeves IS a clear upgrade on those wingers you listed when you finally wrap your head around the reason WHY he was acquired. Rutherford picked him up to help deter some of the BS that the players have had to endure over the past 2+ seasons. There's actually been LOTS of discussion on this topic here over the past couple of months if you'd like to do a little research and try to educate yourself on the topic...
 
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Gurglesons

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And we'd have Kostin. And still have Sundqvist who was improving. Not like he was stagnating like DP. The trade really made no sense, since he isn't a clear upgrade over anybody and he is more expensive than a Kuhn, Rowney or Archibald. That's 3 RWs alone who are capable of bringing NHL play, and that's not including Sprong,ZAR or Johnson. I don't get why the pens thought they needed ANOTHER 4th line RW who isn't even an upgrade.

You could've even have used the 1st towards a centre or Dman. Like Scandella or something.

Yeah, I mean. That is hypothetical, the fact is we had Sprong knocking on the door and Rowney, Rust, Hornqvist, Kessel, and Sheary as RWs on the roster. As well as fringe options like Archibald.

So bizarre.
 

SCPens

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Feb 9, 2008
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And we'd have Kostin. And still have Sundqvist who was improving. Not like he was stagnating like DP. The trade really made no sense, since he isn't a clear upgrade over anybody and he is more expensive than a Kuhn, Rowney or Archibald. That's 3 RWs alone who are capable of bringing NHL play, and that's not including Sprong,ZAR or Johnson. I don't get why the pens thought they needed ANOTHER 4th line RW who isn't even an upgrade.

You could've even have used the 1st towards a centre or Dman. Like Scandella or something.

He obviously wasn't improving enough to keep the guy. And as a matter of fact one could make the case that he WAS stagnating like DP. Great post though...
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary
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Archibald

Put Kuhn on waivers. Not seeing the problem.

I'd probably waive Archibald before Kuhnhackl, but my preference would to trade both Kuhnhackl and Pouliot for a 3C.

With no moves, I'd probably want to see:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust/Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary-McKegg-Hornqvist/Rust
Wilson-Rowney-Reaves
 

SCPens

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Yeah, I mean. That is hypothetical, the fact is we had Sprong knocking on the door and Rowney, Rust, Hornqvist, Kessel, and Sheary as RWs on the roster. As well as fringe options like Archibald.

So bizarre.

Well when Rutherford trades away some of these wingers for that 3rd line centre that you've had your panties in a bunch over you'll FINALLY realize how it wasn't bizarre.....AT ALL.
 

Empoleon8771

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Including all of Rowney, Rust and Sheary as RWers on the roster seems pretty disingenuous. Sheary is actually a LWer primarily, Rust can play both wings equally as well and Rowney is mostly a center. The only pure RWers on the team were Hornqvist and Kessel.

Sundqvist sucks, he's a nothing loss and he's not better than any of McKegg, Rowney or anyone like that. The Penguins were probably not going to take Kostin anyway, even if they kept the pick. They were probably going with a defenseman with that pick.

Sundqvist apparently learned how to skate this summer, his skating looked good according to Blues fans. I also think his skating might look good because St. Louis plays a slower game than the Penguins do.
 
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BrokenStick

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Feb 8, 2004
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And we'd have Kostin. And still have Sundqvist who was improving. Not like he was stagnating like DP. The trade really made no sense, since he isn't a clear upgrade over anybody and he is more expensive than a Kuhn, Rowney or Archibald. That's 3 RWs alone who are capable of bringing NHL play, and that's not including Sprong,ZAR or Johnson. I don't get why the pens thought they needed ANOTHER 4th line RW who isn't even an upgrade.

You could've even have used the 1st towards a centre or Dman. Like Scandella or something.

We wouldn't have had Kostin. If the team had wanted him, they wouldn't have made the trade.

I don't buy the BS that they would have taken Lauzon there, but if they liked Kostin they would have found another way to make the Reaves deal and still drafted Kostin.

I do wonder whether they would've still made the deal if Nashville hadn't taken Tolvanen, though.
 

Shaftception

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Apr 6, 2011
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I think that has more to do with Crosby not wanting to play with Hornqvist.

Sheary-Sid-Horny was murdering the league last year. Helped Sid get another Rocket.

I don't think we see that next year though for any significant amount of time no matter how much I want to.

I guess I have to preface that I don't have a beef against Horny before I say the following, primarily because last I said it there seemed to be quite a loud fanclub that took any opposing viewpoint to their own as an unfair slight against him worth condemning. I'm simply offering my research of the quoted claim.

With that said, the above claim was not entirely factual at the time, at least the attributing significant credit to Sid's wingers bit. The analytics at the time were pretty favorable for that combo, which makes sense because they're both good wingers, but I watched with my own eyes every replay of Sid's first 30ish goals at the time when I was trying to come up with my own opinion on the matter. When his wingers were shifting between Sheary, Horny, Hags, and Wilson. The amount of 5v5 goals I was willing to give Horny specifically for instance direct credit for helping create (meaning he was directly involved in setting up the goal, whether it be the crucial pass or screen) was about 5-7 of those early season goals. The rest came on the powerplay or when Hagelin or Wilson was playing there. If you won't take my word for it go watch the highlights on the Pens site yourself. Some really seemed to want to attribute Sid's goal scoring pace primarily to Hornqvist or Sheary, and the actual in game footage just didn't match up with the staunchness of that belief.

That's not to say he's not a valuable part of the team like some will inevitably take from the above for whatever reason, but attributing Crosby's unsustainable pace to either of his wingers at the time is disingenuous at best. When they weren't coming on the powerplay, a good number of them were scored almost entirely due to Crosby's own individual effort, whether they be shots off the goalie's back or deflections in tight. Goals that would not have happened without Crosby primarily creating the scoring chance himself, regardless of who was on his wing at the time.

About the only combo I'd be confident in having real potential to replicate similar goal scoring success if it's at all controllable and not a string of fortuitous bounces, is Guentzel playing with him, as he's capable of playmaking independent of whoever else is on his line and thus can create for Crosby and not just primarily rely on him (he's a natural center so it makes sense). This compared to Horny who while providing his own unique contributions to a line that benefit his linemates, is undeniably more reliant on others to create scoring chances than not.

If this is what Crosby has an issue with (if the assumed is true) and he desires a winger with more individual creativity, short of requesting Kunitz be reacquired from Tampa I'm not about to state definitively he's wrong in that preference.
 
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Saints11

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Jan 24, 2012
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And we'd have Kostin. And still have Sundqvist who was improving. Not like he was stagnating like DP. The trade really made no sense, since he isn't a clear upgrade over anybody and he is more expensive than a Kuhn, Rowney or Archibald. That's 3 RWs alone who are capable of bringing NHL play, and that's not including Sprong,ZAR or Johnson. I don't get why the pens thought they needed ANOTHER 4th line RW who isn't even an upgrade.

You could've even have used the 1st towards a centre or Dman. Like Scandella or something.

Except they wanted Reeves, period. They also did not feel that Sundqvist was improving; who in their eyes had already been passed by Rowney and Blueger.

You are right in that they have a lot of young wings, but none who provides what Reeves provides; thus, the reason he was their #1 off season target.
 

cheesedanish87

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Jun 27, 2012
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Friedman saying the same thing as Mackey, it would be nice if AA could sign so we can get our 3rd line center in camp.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/jason-blake-knows-well-whats-ahead-brian-boyle/

5. Ferris also represents Andreas Athanasiou. The longer this takes, the more you think a Detroit-Pittsburgh trade is contingent on his signing with the Red Wings. At his season-opening media conference, Penguins GM Jim Rutherford indicated there were three options for the Penguins to consider. Riley Sheahan is one, and I think the parameters are all but agreed to. (I’m wondering if Derrick Pouliot is a possibility, he seems like a sensible gamble for Detroit.) But, I don’t know how the Red Wings feel about potentially losing both Athanasiou and Sheahan, which could be holding up the deal. Of course, Pittsburgh could decide to move on, too.

6. Part II of this whole scenario is the Penguins may be waiting to figure out this move before making Evgeni Malkin happy and taking the plunge with Danis Zaripov.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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That's literally just repeating what Mackey said on Madden yesterday. So one of those guys is either stealing from the other guy or they're both talking to the same guy.
 

Riptide

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Dec 29, 2011
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Waiver claims aren't free assets like people seem to think. They're desperation moves to fill holes. And often temporary.

All depends on the team doing the waiving, the player involved and who's claiming him. So while for the most part you're correct... it's really dependent on the teams and players. Most teams are not so deep that the players they're waiving are all that special. Some guys (usually blueliners) might have potential, but haven't put it together yet. But the team claiming the player needs to have an actual use for them, and not just them trying to get the player into the minors.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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May 31, 2004
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I really hope this whole Zaripov thing is just a bunch of talk. Aside from anything else... he's never played a lick of NHL hockey and is almost as old as me. Which is old.
 

Empoleon8771

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I really hope this whole Zaripov thing is just a bunch of talk. Aside from anything else... he's never played a lick of NHL hockey and is almost as old as me. Which is old.

Meh, if it makes Malkin happy, I don't really care. He's not going to be making any sort of significant money, especially if he's the one that wants to come here (because I can't imagine the Penguins want him all that much), and there's a chance he can be an effective player for the Penguins. If it fails, either let him walk after the year or trade him to Arizona for some help for your AHL team.
 

Shaftception

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Is there any indication a 36 year old Zaripov would benefit this team at this point to such a degree to make it him worth actually acquiring? I've not watched anything on him. Is the likelyhood of such an acquisition happening solely because Malkin wants to play with him? Seems an unreasonable priority if so, at least with Reaves they made clear the reason and the "supposed" benefit his acquisition would provide. Can he still skate at his age like say Cullen at least?
 

Empoleon8771

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Is there any indication a 36 year old Zaripov would benefit this team at this point to such a degree to make it him worth actually acquiring? I've not watched anything on him. Is the likelyhood of such an acquisition happening solely because Malkin wants to play with him?

Yeah, basically. I can't see any single reason the Penguins would want him, but a free player is a free player. If he costs $700k a year, why not? Best case scenario is you just pulled off a top-6 forward rental for free. Worst case scenario is you put him in the AHL.
 

cheesedanish87

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I really hope this whole Zaripov thing is just a bunch of talk. Aside from anything else... he's never played a lick of NHL hockey and is almost as old as me. Which is old.


I feel the same way.

It makes me nervous that were less then 2 weeks away from the season and he hasn't signed with anyone.

It feels like he might we waiting for us to sign him.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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May 31, 2004
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Honestly (and I'm a big Malkin fan... really, I am) if he needs Danis flipping Zaripov to make him happy on this team he can **** off. That's ridiculous. I admit that I'm not exactly bursting with knowledge on this particular player... but does he even qualify as a has-been? It just seems like yet another way to potentially muddy the waters.

Whatever. Wait and see, I guess.
 

Saints11

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Jan 24, 2012
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Is there any indication a 36 year old Zaripov would benefit this team at this point to such a degree to make it him worth actually acquiring? I've not watched anything on him. Is the likelyhood of such an acquisition happening solely because Malkin wants to play with him? Seems an unreasonable priority if so, at least with Reaves they made clear the reason and the "supposed" benefit his acquisition would provide. Can he still skate at his age like say Cullen at least?

Malkin seems very confident that he would make the team better, and he more than you and I has earned the benefit of the doubt. Would there be any questions at all if 87 was doing the asking?
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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May 31, 2004
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Malkin seems very confident that he would make the team better, and he more than you and I has earned the benefit of the doubt. Would there be any questions at all if 87 was doing the asking?

Speaking for myself, yes.

Great players are great players. That doesn't necessarily make them great pro scouts.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Honestly (and I'm a big Malkin fan... really, I am) if he needs Danis flipping Zaripov to make him happy on this team he can **** off. That's ridiculous. I admit that I'm not exactly bursting with knowledge on this particular player... but does he even qualify as a has-been? It just seems like yet another way to potentially muddy the waters.

Whatever. Wait and see, I guess.

He probably doesn't need him to be happy, but signing him would be happy. Why does he need to **** off for wanting one of his buddies on the team? There is literally no risk with signing him. Could it not work? Yeah, completely, but there's literally no risk in giving him a contract. I could understand if we were talking a 4 year, $4.5 million deal, but it's going to be a 1 year deal at probably close to league minimum.

This has been the opinion I've had on Zaripov for the entire time. Does he fill a need for the Penguins? Not in the least. But what hurts with adding a free player that has at least the potential to work out here? Yeah, he's 36, big whoop. He's also only going to be on a 1 year deal. You're basically saying no to a free lottery ticket because you already have a lot of money.
 
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