Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Well, now what?

[LiffLaff]

Proposed this on the main board aswell, but thought i'd get you guys opinion, how'd you feel about a Sprong-Honka swap with Dallas? Is my mancrush on Honka clouding my judgment, or good deal?

 

[Riptide]

I agree that Sheary's playoff struggles are overblown - but I don't think you have to overblow them to say he didn't bring enough to stay. That 17 points in 45 games also makes him the 9th most productive forward to play both. If its solid, then solid is not enough from a 3m guy with little defence.

Just imagine if Sheary had been able to round out his defensive game to be more like Hagelin/Rust. Him at 3m to play in the top 9 and PK and bring things to the table even when not scoring...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I really don’t get why Sprong must be played in the top nine or he won’t succeed, management is ruining him, blah blah blah.

And then in that same breath Sheary is one dimensional and brought nothing to the ice. He led the league in ES PPG one year was 4th in ES goals in a terrible ES year last year an admittedly bad year for him and he was relatively solid in spurts in the 15-16 cup run.

Sheary and Sprong have different skill sets, but the end product is likely pretty similar.

Sheltered, 13-15 minutes most night and completely offensive players.

I just don’t get how Sprong’s misusage is a calamity, but trading Sheary made 100% sense and he is terrible..

Not even a huge Sheary fan, but he is the exact type of player that helps win cups in a support role even at 3 mil.

 

[Riptide]

Why don't you? He produced just as well as every other top-6 forward did in 2016. He produced just as well as Hornqvist and Bonino in 2017. He produced just as poorly as everyone else did in 2018. I'm not wishing away any years, I'm pointing out that his production was right in line with everyone else every single year. To say he was garbage in the playoffs is just comically untrue, it's looking at the stats and saying they're wrong.

Like I said, he produced the same as Malkin and Rust at ES in 2016. He produced the same as Hornqvist and Bonino in 2017. He produced just as badly as everyone else minus Crosby's line in 2018. Those are actual arguments for Sheary's playoff struggles being overblown. Just repeating "he was garbage" or pointing out how he was 13th in total points isn't an argument against that.

Because it doesn't fit WC's argument that he was trash if he doesn't.

We do miss Sheary right now, regardless of the back and forth debate on his playoff performances.

And unfortunately, we had to trade him to get rid of Hunwick. I don't know that Sheary was JR's only option to move, but something of value was going to Buffalo to dump Hunwick and obviously JR had JJ in mind to spend the cap on, which I think was a clear mistake.

Not sure about that. Even if we could have kept him, we would have been over the cap. I mean when healthy this fall, we had what... 1.3m in cap space? Sheary was likely gone either way.

I think Hanks and Andy have it right. We don't miss him as a team in terms of results, but in terms of getting that 3rd line going, he was a valuable option. Not just in terms of skill, but also speed.

I'm sure things will get sorted in time.

Several of us said this summer that we would miss this aspect of his game.

 

[Riptide]

Proposed this on the main board aswell, but thought i'd get you guys opinion, how'd you feel about a Sprong-Honka swap with Dallas? Is my mancrush on Honka clouding my judgment, or good deal?

I don't think the value is wrong... I just don't see why Pittsburgh does it. We already have 7 NHL caliber D, and that's with Schultz on IR.

 

[Gurglesons]

Just imagine if Sheary had been able to round out his defensive game to be more like Hagelin/Rust. Him at 3m to play in the top 9 and PK and bring things to the table even when not scoring...

I think he was actually one of our better defensive forwards this playoffs.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

From the 3rd line, that has been a massive problem. Seeing how Sheary would be on the 3rd line with Brassard, who's struggling a ton right now, it's not hard to connect the dots.
Yeah, and the problem now is that Simon has shown he can't be that guy and Sprong hasn't looked good this year (and isn't a LW, even though he should be), so they're back to square 1 of needing a LWer if their play continues.

Brassard is being mismanaged. There just isn't any question in my mind. Would Sheary help? Probably. But again the struggles of this team is defensively not scoring. So, all things considered Sheary makes L3 better but does nothing in terms of the real issues they face atm as a team.

As far as Sprong, and perhaps I am the last person holding onto hope here, he is not being put into the right place at all. He hasn't from the start. And that's fine, but really do not hold a roster spot for a guy you are not going to trust except in the first period of any game.

 

[LiffLaff]

I don't think the value is wrong... I just don't see why Pittsburgh does it. We already have 7 NHL caliber D, and that's with Schultz on IR.

My thinking is, we could use another rh d-man, im not a big fan of Ruh. And with Sullivan seemingly not willing to give Sprong a shot in the top six, i'd prefer getting something of value, before he's traded for a late pick, like Pouliot..

 

[Turin]

I really wish the Pens got Domi in the off-season.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

I really wish the Pens got Domi in the off-season.

I would been happy with Skinner too...

 

[Gurglesons]

I really wish the Pens got Domi in the off-season.

Domi - Malkin - Rust would’ve been real nice.

Too bad Rust was rumored to be part of the deal. Also, probably means we can’t afford Jack Johnson.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, once Sprong proves he can actually get a shot on net, I’m assuming that would be his usage on most teams.

If he was taking Rust or Hornqvist’s spot on our line-up he would be somewhere along those lines.

 

[Turin]

I would been happy with Skinner too...

Would have been nice since he went for so little, I just feel the team could have used the speed, youth and jam of Domi more.

 

[Turin]

Domi - Malkin - Rust would’ve been real nice.

Too bad Rust was rumored to be part of the deal. Also, probably means we can’t afford Jack Johnson.

That’s half the reason I wish it happened.

Yea it was Sheary or Rust from what I remember. Probably wouldn’t have dealt Rust. I still can’t tell if Sheary is actually good or if Crosby Andy Hilbert’d him.

 

[Gurglesons]

That’s half the reason I wish it happened.

Yea it was Sheary or Rust from what I remember. Probably wouldn’t have dealt Rust. I still can’t tell if Sheary is actually good or if Crosby Andy Hilbert’d him.

He’s good. He’s just.. Sheary.

He’s doing decent in Buffalo albeit mainly on the powerplay, but he’s the type of player that can make two goals happen out of nothing and win a game while being complacent in his own zone.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

He’s good. He’s just.. Sheary.

He’s doing decent in Buffalo albeit mainly on the powerplay, but he’s the type of player that can make two goals happen out of nothing and win a game while being complacent in his own zone.

Why did I think of Oleksiak when you said this...?

 

[Gurglesons]

Why did I think of Oleksiak when you said this...?

I think ideally I’d roll a Riikola - Oleksiak pairing. Let Oleksiak be an offense player and let Riikola be a solid defensive player behind him.

 

[Shady Machine]

We don't really miss "him" (and we won't miss him the POs for sure)...what we miss is having someone with his offensive talents playing on the third line...Brass played better with someone like Sheary and Horny on the other side and Simon doesn't have the same offensive skill...Sheary could find the soft spot to get open for a pass and often connected when he wasn't falling down...Simon has difficulties finding the net and we have no one in WBS that seems ready to do much better there..

That's what I meant although didn't make clear. Maybe that player is Simon, but he's not there yet.

 

[Turin]

He’s good. He’s just.. Sheary.

He’s doing decent in Buffalo albeit mainly on the powerplay, but he’s the type of player that can make two goals happen out of nothing and win a game while being complacent in his own zone.

I think that’s true but that 17 season looks like it’s going to be a huge career outlier.

 

[vikingGoalie]

i know the ship sailed. but i much rather have Cole then JJ on the team right about now. JJ might pan out to early to tell, from my viewpoint he's had some good and some bad. So to early to really judge things imo. Just cole looked pretty damn good on Colorado the other night, I'd probably swap Oli for Cole straight up.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

i know the ship sailed. but i much rather have Cole then JJ on the team right about now. JJ might pan out to early to tell, from my viewpoint he's had some good and some bad. So to early to really judge things imo. Just cole looked pretty damn good on Colorado the other night, I'd probably swap Oli for Cole straight up.

Maybe, but Cole takes a lot of penalties, and needing to go through Washington and Toronto with one of your main PK guys being one of your big penalty guys is not great. I like Cole in general, and am not a huge Olli fan, but we can solve our issues in other ways. JJ is being forced to play 20 minutes a night here recently, and I don't think that was anyone's intention when bringing him in. As we get healthier and as Riikola gains experience, I'm hoping to see JJ with less minutes and easier assignments.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Proposed this on the main board aswell, but thought i'd get you guys opinion, how'd you feel about a Sprong-Honka swap with Dallas? Is my mancrush on Honka clouding my judgment, or good deal?

The problem with Honka is that they already have too many defensemen who are waiver eligible, and that just makes the problem worse. If he can be sent to the AHL, I'd change my tone, but I believe he's waiver eligible.

i know the ship sailed. but i much rather have Cole then JJ on the team right about now. JJ might pan out to early to tell, from my viewpoint he's had some good and some bad. So to early to really judge things imo. Just cole looked pretty damn good on Colorado the other night, I'd probably swap Oli for Cole straight up.

I would genuinely rather have Johnson at the contract that the Penguins gave him than Cole at the contract the Avs gave Cole.

 

[Shady Machine]

B
Not sure about that. Even if we could have kept him, we would have been over the cap. I mean when healthy this fall, we had what... 1.3m in cap space? Sheary was likely gone either way.

Not if we didn't sign Johnson, which was also in my post. JR had to give up an asset of value to dump Hunwick on a team and it had to be Sheary because JR also wanted more cap space to replace Hunwick at a more expensive hit.

I think Hunwick sucked, but it's fair to wonder if the team would be better at this juncture wit Sheary+Hunwick vs no Sheary + JJ.

I was in favor of the trade after it was made because JR rid himself of one mistake, but he might have made a bigger one in the process.

 

[Shady Machine]

Maybe, but Cole takes a lot of penalties, and needing to go through Washington and Toronto with one of your main PK guys being one of your big penalty guys is not great. I like Cole in general, and am not a huge Olli fan, but we can solve our issues in other ways. JJ is being forced to play 20 minutes a night here recently, and I don't think that was anyone's intention when bringing him in. As we get healthier and as Riikola gains experience, I'm hoping to see JJ with less minutes and easier assignments.

Honestly, I actually believe the team was thinking they got a middle pairing Dman with JJ. They don't have to play him 20 minutes a night, even with Schultz out, but they are because he is viewed as their current 3rd best dman.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Honestly, I actually believe the team was thinking they got a middle pairing Dman with JJ. They don't have to play him 20 minutes a night, even with Schultz out, but they are because he is viewed as their current 3rd best dman.

It's partially to do with just how bad Maatta has been, and their lack of confidence in Oleksiak with tough defensive assignments. If Maatta can't reliably handle defensive situations, then that's our #1 issue on D. Johnson has had positive and negative while playing a bit over his head. I'm not sure I've seen a lot of positive out of Maatta. But if Riikola continues to gain some confidence, and I've been pretty happy with him so far despite the analytics, then we may be in a position to just trade Maatta for some value or healthy scratching him when Schultz comes back.

JR is probably just planning on dealing with Maatta in the offseason though once he has more data on all fronts.