Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Well, now what?

[Dipsy Doodle]

I said score goals.

Sprong had 2 goals in his last 15 NHL games. 10 goal pace woooooosh.

He didn't do that with less than 9 minutes until his 30th game either and he only did it twice all year too, so I'm not sure what point you think your distinction makes.

And for Sprong he scored 3 points in his first eight games and has yet to score a goal in seven and he has an “elite shot” which is easily “the second or third best on the team.l

Yep. But we're discussing opportunity here.

Sheary didn't get put on the first line after his first 7 games. That didn't happen until April.

Okay. How does that change what I said?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I wonder if something like a Sprong for Poopjuiceparty would be a good move?

Both likely need a change of scenery at this point.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yeah, but OZONE STARTS MANNNNNNNN.

And minutes. And production that hardly suggests "grabbing opportunity by the throat".

That's supposedly the difference between Sheary and Sprong, as argued here.

 

[Gurglesons]

And minutes. And production that hardly suggests "grabbing opportunity by the throat".

I have this image of you as Charlie from It’s Always Sunny pointing at a bunch of crumpled paper on a wall proving why Sprong is an NHLer at the end of the year.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I have this image of you as Charlie from It’s Always Sunny pointing at a bunch of crumpled paper on a wall proving why Sprong is an NHLer at the end of the year.

I can't control what images you conjure up. I'm just bringing facts.

 

[billybudd]

Okay. How does that change what I said?

You've referenced Sheary a number of times now as an example of a player who did similar things to Sprong yet got more opportunity. That isn't the case. After 7 games of doing nothing, he was still sitting there spinning his tires in the mud that was Kevin Porter. I suspect that's not the sort of opportunity you're looking for Sprong to get. It took Sheary months of better and better hockey to get a crack at the 87 job.

 

[Gurglesons]

I can't control what images you conjure up. I'm just bringing facts.

Facts: Daniel Sprong will be a third liner on a team like the Canucks by the end of next year and you’ll be acting like we lost in the 2nd round because we moved him.

While Kris Letang is laying down with a Norris.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You've referenced Sheary a number of times now as an example of a player who did similar things to Sprong yet got more opportunity. That isn't the case. After 7 games of doing nothing, he was still sitting there next to Kevin Porter. I suspect that's not the sort of opportunity you're looking for Sprong to get.

Minutes and zone starts like Sheary got right off the bat would be a nice start.

I just take issue with the idea that Sprong's floundering where Sheary grabbed opportunity by the throat. Through 7 games, Sprong's producing more with 4 fewer minutes a game and much harsher deployment.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Facts: Daniel Sprong will be a third liner on a team like the Canucks by the end of next year and you’ll be acting like we lost in the 2nd round because we moved him.

While Kris Letang is laying down with a Norris.

What's Sam Bennett gonna be doing, Nostradamus?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Facts: Daniel Sprong will be a third liner on a team like the Canucks by the end of next year and you’ll be acting like we lost in the 2nd round because we moved him.

While Kris Letang is laying down with a Norris.

I think Sprong can be a top 6 player, just not with us. He is one of those guys that will never reach his potential for this team because he has no idea what he needs to do even though its been told to him and its obvious.

It's like Kap, he was a guy that tried to deke his way through 4 players instead of using his team mates. Being traded was good for him and he's a better player now in Toronto for it. Pouliot is a guy that Vancouver manages the f*** out of for minutes and he's "useful" to them in that sense.

Sprong can be good.

But the realization has come for me anyway that he just won't be for us. He needs that kick in the ass and multiple benchings and scratches won't do it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think Sprong can be a top 6 player, just not with us. He is one of those guys that will never reach his potential for this team because he has no idea what he needs to do even though its been told to him and its obvious.

It's like Kap, he was a guy that tried to deke his way through 4 players instead of using his team mates. Being traded was good for him and he's a better player now in Toronto for it. Pouliot is a guy that Vancouver manages the **** out of for minutes and he's "useful" to them in that sense.

Sprong can be good.

But the realization has come for me anyway that he just won't be for us. He needs that kick in the ass and multiple benchings and scratches won't do it.

There's no amount of kicks in the ass that will get a player to produce with the way Sprong's being used. It isn't an issue of will.

 

[billybudd]

Minutes and zone starts like Sheary got right off the bat would be a nice start.

I just take issue with the idea that Sprong's floundering where Sheary grabbed opportunity by the throat. Through 7 games, Sprong's producing more with 4 fewer minutes a game and much harsher deployment.

By the end of the year, Sheary had. But it wasn't because of favorable treatment or glorious opportunities materializing out of nowhere. Sheary had a tough road to the first line. Any opportunities he got, he forced for himself out of bad circumstances. I can't imagine many worse circumstances for an aspiring scorer than an on-ice marriage to Kevin Porter.

I mean, the guy had one bad playoff game and Sullivan scratched him for Beau Bennett, a player who would ultimately demonstrate himself to not be good enough to lock down a roster spot on a third rate team in the Russian league.

Maybe Sprong, like Sheary, will do the same thing and force the Pens' hands, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Gurglesons]

What's Sam Bennett gonna be doing, Nostradamus?

See, I can admit that I read what I saw in glimpses of a player wrong.

It’s okay to admit it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

There's no amount of kicks in the ass that will get a player to produce with the way Sprong's being used. It isn't an issue of will.

Even in the limited minutes he gets, he doesn't look like a player that is trying to make it harder to play him less, rather he's making it easier to play him less.

I have made it clear my stance with Sullivan and his usage with young players, but Sprong makes it hard to really defend him right now.

The Riikola thing though, what the f***?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

See, I can admit that I read what I saw in glimpses of a player wrong.

It’s okay to admit it.

Hey I still think Sam Bennett can be a good player, if the Flames ever figure out how to do him a favor and move him.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

By the end of the year, Sheary had. But it wasn't because of favorable treatment or glorious opportunities materializing out of nowhere. Sheary had a tough road to the first line. Any opportunities he got, he forced for himself out of bad circumstances.

I mean, the guy had one bad playoff game and Sullivan scratched him for Beau Bennett, a player who would ultimately demonstrate himself to not be good enough to lock down a roster spot on a third rate team in the Russian league.

Injury's a hell of a thing.

Like I said, at this point I'd take Sprong starting out with the chances Sheary had. That should be baseline deployment for a scoring wing prospect. But he isn't even getting that.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Injury's a hell of a thing.

Like I said, at this point I'd take Sprong starting out with the chances Sheary had. But he simply isn't getting them.

As much as you hate it and I hate it, he will never get that chance.

At this point, I want JR to move him so he doesn't get screwed with the return like he did for Pouliot.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

See, I can admit that I read what I saw in glimpses of a player wrong.

It’s okay to admit it.

Ditto. I've been pretty candid about how wrong I was wrt Letang's start.

Sprong's a different animal. He's simply not getting the opportunity. If he does and struggles I'll be the first to admit it, but this exact situation is what I was warning about all summer.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ditto. I've been pretty candid about how wrong I was wrt Letang's start.

Sprong's a different animal. He's simply not getting the opportunity. If he does and struggles I'll be the first to admit it, but this exact situation is what I was warning about all summer.

But, Sprong hasn’t been the player he was the first four or so games he was up last season since those games.

He had a bad camp, he had a poor preseason and it’s culminating in a terrible regular season. Obviously, he’s getting shafted in TOI, but he has to show something.

And no random assists are not it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

But, Sprong hasn’t been the player he was the first four or so games he was up last season since those games.

He had a bad camp, he had a poor preseason and it’s culminating in a terrible regular season. Obviously, he’s getting shafted in TOI, but he has to show something.

And no random assists are not it.

I haven't seen anything to support that. As I recall, he was producing pretty well in camp scrimmages.

He had one preseason game in the top 9 and that's been the extent of his legitimate chances after camp. Since then it's been 4th liners, d-zone starts, and 8 minutes per. That's not opportunity, that's sandbagging. I don't know of anyone who's produced with that kind of deployment and I don't think anyone else does either, but I'm open to counter-examples.

 

[Riptide]

My thinking is, we could use another rh d-man, im not a big fan of Ruh. And with Sullivan seemingly not willing to give Sprong a shot in the top six, i'd prefer getting something of value, before he's traded for a late pick, like Pouliot..

Even if you're not a fan of Ruh (although why I would not know), the situation you'd be putting Honka in would be even worse then that of Sprong - at least Sprong is playing regularly. There's no guarantee of that with Honka - and that's with us missing Schultz.

 

[LiffLaff]

Even if you're not a fan of Ruh (although why I would not know), the situation you'd be putting Honka in would be even worse then that of Sprong - at least Sprong is playing regularly. There's no guarantee of that with Honka - and that's with us missing Schultz.

Would'nt it make us able to trade one of our lhd for that lw so many here seems to want tho?

 

[Riptide]

I seriously think it's time to move on from Sprong if by December he hasn't figured it out. He's spent whatever good will the coaching staff had on him with the games so far and yeah that's not a lot of games, but the things he's done, it'd almost take a miracle set of games for Sprong to get back into the good graces and I don't know if I see that happening.

Honestly, if JR doesn't move him, he's going to have to take the hit he did with moving Pouliot for scraps later on in the season. At this point, Sullivan should bench him and play Grant to see if that sparks him. It would be a multiple game benching though imo, he has to review game tape and sit and practice, the talent is there, but holy crap, the kid is just not putting it together and while he could use some AHL time, we can't without losing him.

Why? He could just as easily play all season, and figure it out later on in the year or next season. It's not like we have a ton of prospects who are so good that they're pushing him out. I mean I'd move him if we were getting someone good in return... but not just for the sake of moving him.

 

[Riptide]

Would'nt it make us able to trade one of our lhd for that lw so many here seems to want tho?

Why? What has Honka done to make Rutherford want to trade an established blueliner?

 

[Riptide]

There's no amount of kicks in the ass that will get a player to produce with the way Sprong's being used. It isn't an issue of will.

How about just not playing like crap? Not even talking about his production or goals or anything... just not playing poorly? Because it doesn't matter what line you're on or where you start your shift... That's something he has full control over - and so far has for the most part been doing a poor job of it.