Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Well, now what?

[Turin]

Proposed this on the main board aswell, but thought i'd get you guys opinion, how'd you feel about a Sprong-Honka swap with Dallas? Is my mancrush on Honka clouding my judgment, or good deal?

No thanks. Shoot higher or keep him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No thanks. Shoot higher or keep him.

I can see why he'd have interest in Honka, he seems to be a casualty of the Dallas mismanagement of "hey we have youth? cool, lets get vets!"

Dallas has been doing it to their forwards as well, a lot were up in arms about Comeau being brought in and even Polak (lol what?). Dallas is in a desperate spot, they need to make it happen this year, make the playoffs and at least advance to the 2nd round at worst. Nill is on the hot seat, their new coach is safe for now, but that entire core needs that, Seguin hasn't even been sold on an extension yet because of the constant failures of moving forward with being a properly built contender.

And it appears you think we need to shoot higher on a prospect that has top pairing potential, is a slick skater, very good shot, right handed, can play well positionally and is a guy that can handle the rougher game. If anything, we would honestly be lucky if we could get him for Sprong and I would be more so looking at a Nuke + Honka deal for Maatta + Sprong. It solves two things for us.

A LW'er (I know Nuke plays RW/LW) and a RHS on D that isn't slow as a constipated turd.


Guentzel, Crosby, Hornqvist
Nichushkin/Hagelin, Malkin, Kessel
Hagelin/Nichushkin, Brassard, Rust
Grant/Simon, Cullen, Grant/Simon

Dumoulin, Letang
Riikola, Oleksiak
Johnson, Honka

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I seriously think it's time to move on from Sprong if by December he hasn't figured it out. He's spent whatever good will the coaching staff had on him with the games so far and yeah that's not a lot of games, but the things he's done, it'd almost take a miracle set of games for Sprong to get back into the good graces and I don't know if I see that happening.

His choices for where to be on the ice is just not up to par and jokes aside with his minutes and benchings (he's earned them, I joke about it, but he's earned what Sully has done to him with cutting minutes and benching him), he's a kid that will likely flourish in the NHL when he's moved and has that kick in the rear that he needs from that experience of not being wanted anymore.

He makes bad choices with battling for the puck and losing his man in his own zone far too often. It's not even like the kid doesn't try, he tries, he actually does try and you see it, but it's like he's just not taught to do it correctly or if he was taught, it's not sinking in. The 4th line stuff, I get it, the guy needs to be better 1 on 1 with his defending and knowing who to cover when he's in his own zone.

Honestly, if JR doesn't move him, he's going to have to take the hit he did with moving Pouliot for scraps later on in the season. At this point, Sullivan should bench him and play Grant to see if that sparks him. It would be a multiple game benching though imo, he has to review game tape and sit and practice, the talent is there, but holy crap, the kid is just not putting it together and while he could use some AHL time, we can't without losing him.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I seriously think it's time to move on from Sprong if by December he hasn't figured it out. He's spent whatever good will the coaching staff had on him with the games so far and yeah that's not a lot of games, but the things he's done, it'd almost take a miracle set of games for Sprong to get back into the good graces and I don't know if I see that happening.

His choices for where to be on the ice is just not up to par and jokes aside with his minutes and benchings (he's earned them, I joke about it, but he's earned what Sully has done to him with cutting minutes and benching him), he's a kid that will likely flourish in the NHL when he's moved and has that kick in the rear that he needs from that experience of not being wanted anymore.

He makes bad choices with battling for the puck and losing his man in his own zone far too often. It's not even like the kid doesn't try, he tries, he actually does try and you see it, but it's like he's just not taught to do it correctly or if he was taught, it's not sinking in. The 4th line stuff, I get it, the guy needs to be better 1 on 1 with his defending and knowing who to cover when he's in his own zone.

Honestly, if JR doesn't move him, he's going to have to take the hit he did with moving Pouliot for scraps later on in the season. At this point, Sullivan should bench him and play Grant to see if that sparks him. It would be a multiple game benching though imo, he has to review game tape and sit and practice, the talent is there, but holy crap, the kid is just not putting it together and while he could use some AHL time, we can't without losing him.

Yeah I’d look at trading him for or as part of a LW deal. Simon is capable of going on the RW and getting pushed down to L4. That chemistry might work better for him too. He’s not a top 9 guy now only has really looked good with Crosby in the top 9.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah I’d look at trading him for or as part of a LW deal. Simon is capable of going on the RW and getting pushed down to L4. That chemistry might work better for him too. He’s not a top 9 guy now only has really looked good with Crosby in the top 9.

I would try to go back to that Dallas well that JR has cultivated and Shero has with great to mediocre success.

Honka & Nichushkin would be a fantastic "get" for Maatta + Sprong.

Nuke plays LW/RW.
Honka is a smooth skating RHD that seems to be growing more and more frustrated in Dallas. They got Carrick, they have Johns, the RD side is so muddled there, JR would be an idiot not to swoop in and pluck him off before someone else does.

Not sure how that works cap wise though, I think we'd have to take back someone.

I would think someone like Comeau which at that cap hit and length, I don't know about. I'd rather they added Ritchie and it should work out closer cap wise.

Edit: Ok so maybe not.


Nuke - 2.95
Honka - 863k
Total: 3.813
for

Maatta - 4.08
Sprong - 750k
Total: 4.83k

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I mean, once Sprong proves he can actually get a shot on net, I’m assuming that would be his usage on most teams.

If he was taking Rust or Hornqvist’s spot on our line-up he would be somewhere along those lines.

He should be getting sheltered and used 13-15 minutes a night, but isn't close on either front.

Until that happens and Sprong flounders like Sheary did last year, there's no valid comparison or legitimate criticism to be made.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He should be getting sheltered and used 13-15 minutes a night, but isn't close on either front.

Until that happens and Sprong flounders like Sheary did last year, there's no valid comparison or legitimate criticism to be made.

It's odd to see guys like Sheary get more rope than someone like Sprong, but I think Sheary earned more rope because of his first stint with the team, there were times in the playoffs he was definitely benched and he was shifted from L1-4 all of last year. It seems like Sullivan just wants to keep Sprong on L3 and L4 for the most part.

It sucks, I get it, the guy has made some bone headed defensive mistakes with bad reads, but I mean, throw the kid a bone too.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's odd to see guys like Sheary get more rope than someone like Sprong, but I think Sheary earned more rope because of his first stint with the team, there were times in the playoffs he was definitely benched and he was shifted from L1-4 all of last year. It seems like Sullivan just wants to keep Sprong on L3 and L4 for the most part.

It sucks, I get it, the guy has made some bone headed defensive mistakes with bad reads, but I mean, throw the kid a bone too.

Sheary was nearly as good as Sprong in the AHL and played with way more urgency in his time up. He also actually scored goals when he was being given below nine minutes a night.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sheary was nearly as good as Sprong in the AHL and played with way more urgency in his time up. He also actually scored goals when he was being given below nine minutes a night.

Well, yeah. That's why I get why Sheary got more rope. He earned it. Sprong needs to show more of it. If he knows he has only 2 periods and a limited amount of minutes...

Go.For.f***ing.Broke.

Edit: I am as frustrated with everyone else, whether it is the positive aspects of Sprong and his potential or the negative aspects of him just not being what we think he is.

The guy can shoot, yet he's dicking around trying to pretend play defense and doing a piss poor job of it, be more active with the puck, be more aggressive with getting to the scoring areas. Even if Sprong doesn't score but causes a ruckus in front of the net or in the slot, I am happy. That shows some urgency. But he seems like he's in a f***ing coma.

Makes me wonder if the kid really wants this. Sheary for all his spastic falling, always seemed like he was trying to make himself be seen by the coaching staff, whether good or bad from trying to be good. He was noticeable.

Half the time, I forget Sprong is even in the line-up.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well, yeah. That's why I get why Sheary got more rope. He earned it. Sprong needs to show more of it. If he knows he has only 2 periods and a limited amount of minutes...

Go.For.****ing.Broke.

It’s just weird, because Sheary, Simon, Rust all followed similar paths to Sprong. Got a couple shifts at 15-18 minutes when they first got called up then got shafted on the fourth line for a stretch with insanely low minutes.

Jake is the only one who got different treatment and we all know why.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It’s just weird, because Sheary, Simon, Rust all followed similar paths to Sprong. Got a couple shifts at 15-18 minutes when they first got called up then got shafted on the fourth line for a stretch with insanely low minutes.

Jake is the only one who got different treatment and we all know why.

Well, no with Jake.

Jake got his call-up scored and looked good with Sid & Geno, then he had a few games where he looked invisible, but the timing of players coming back and him being sent down worked out. But yeah with the rest.

Sprong plays like he's just trying to fill the minutes rather than trying to earn more. You know what I mean?

 

[Gurglesons]

Well, no with Jake.

Jake got his call-up scored and looked good with Sid & Geno, then he had a few games where he looked invisible, but the timing of players coming back and him being sent down worked out. But yeah with the rest.

Sprong plays like he's just trying to fill the minutes rather than trying to earn more. You know what I mean?

Yes, it is incredibly frustrating because he has flashes like the Montreal goal. It’s obvious he’s just not a consistent player and that is going to be a huge hurdle to overcome in the NHL.

 

[billybudd]

While I'm not crazy about Sprong's minutes, insinuating that Sheary was given more opportunity is not correct. Anything Sheary got, he got because he grabbed it by the throat. Nobody sat there wondering if Sheary might score if he had more minutes--he forced their hand by scoring pretty regular in garbage ice time.

 

[Turin]

While I'm not crazy about Sprong's minutes, insinuating that Sheary was given more opportunity is not correct. Anything Sheary got, he got because he grabbed it by the throat. Nobody sat there wondering if Sheary might score if he had more minutes--he forced their hand by scoring pretty regular in garbage ice time.

Sully did the same thing with him. Put him with Sid immediately, he did ok, then moved him down when he slowed. After he was good with Cullen he was bumped up again. Sprong doesn’t even need to score. Just do anything.

 

[Tom Hanks]

While I'm not crazy about Sprong's minutes, insinuating that Sheary was given more opportunity is not correct. Anything Sheary got, he got because he grabbed it by the throat. Nobody sat there wondering if Sheary might score if he had more minutes--he forced their hand by scoring pretty regular in garbage ice time.

Sheary had an easier roster to crack too and was part of the new speed identity for the Pens.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sheary was nearly as good as Sprong in the AHL and played with way more urgency in his time up. He also actually scored goals when he was being given below nine minutes a night.

Looks to me like Sheary didn't produce a single point in a game where he played less than 9 minutes until his 30th in '15-'16, and only managed to do it twice all year:

Conor Sheary 2015-16 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Sprong's already done it twice in 7 games.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

While I'm not crazy about Sprong's minutes, insinuating that Sheary was given more opportunity is not correct. Anything Sheary got, he got because he grabbed it by the throat. Nobody sat there wondering if Sheary might score if he had more minutes--he forced their hand by scoring pretty regular in garbage ice time.

Through his first 7 games in '15-'16, Sheary averaged 12 minutes a game, had 70% o-zone starts, and scored 2 points. And he didn't score another point for another 4 games after that.

 

[billybudd]

Sully did the same thing with him. Put him with Sid immediately, he did ok, then moved him down when he slowed. After he was good with Cullen he was bumped up again. Sprong doesn’t even need to score. Just do anything.

Nah. Sheary started on a fourth line with Scott Wilson and, I think, Kuhnhackl.

Edit: It was a collection of guys--Porter (yes, Porter), Kuhnhackl, Fehr, Wilson. He spent three months regularly chipping in with that group before he got a crack at locking down a job with 87.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yes, it is incredibly frustrating because he has flashes like the Montreal goal. It’s obvious he’s just not a consistent player and that is going to be a huge hurdle to overcome in the NHL.

It's a sense of urgency. I honestly, might be brutal, try to bench him and call his ass out for his lack of urgency and that someone with that kind of talent should be working harder to be on lines he would be playing on if he had shown that sense of urgency and his talents.

If he responds well, great, if he doesn't, oh well...JR do your thing.

 

[Gurglesons]

Looks to me like Sheary didn't produce a single point in a game where he played less than 9 minutes until his 30th in '15-'16, and only managed to do it twice all year:

Conor Sheary 2015-16 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Sprong's already done it twice in 7 games.

I said score goals.

Sprong had 2 goals in his last 15 NHL games. 10 goal pace woooooosh.

 

[Gurglesons]

Through his first 7 games in '15-'16, Sheary averaged 12 minutes a game, had 70% o-zone starts, and scored 2 points. And he didn't score another point for another 4 games after that.

And for Sprong he scored 3 points in his first eight games and has yet to score a goal in seven and he has an “elite shot” which is easily “the second or third best on the team.l

 

[Turin]

Nah. Sheary started on a fourth line with Scott Wilson and, I think, Kuhnhackl.

Edit: It was Kevin Porter, not Kuhnackl. Sheary managed to score enough goals to get noticed playing with Kevin Porter, of all people.

That was his second stint then, wasn’t it? His first goal was ES assisted by Crosby.

 

[billybudd]

Through his first 7 games in '15-'16, Sheary averaged 12 minutes a game, had 70% o-zone starts, and scored 2 points. And he didn't score another point for another 4 games after that.

Sheary didn't get put on the first line after his first 7 games. That didn't happen until April.

 

[billybudd]

That was his second stint then, wasn’t it? His first goal was ES assisted by Crosby.

That was right in the middle of the mumps outbreak (as well as Dupuis' heart thing and Bennett's "whatever the Hell was wrong with him that time"). That wasn't a legitimate look at prime ice time--he just happened to be a warm body available to a club that didn't have any other ones.

I mean, he produced and they sent him down, anyway, as soon as the first player came off injured reserve. He wasn't even the first call-up once guys started getting traded.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sheary didn't get put on the first line after his first 7 games. That didn't happen until April.

Yeah, but OZONE STARTS MANNNNNNNN.