Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Well, now what?

[Dipsy Doodle]

That he was 7th in ES points 2016, with the same as Malkin and Rust, and 9th in ES points 2017, with the same as Bonino and Hornqvist, suggests it is overblown.

Too bad we don't parse effectiveness by isolating single years at even-strength and wishing away the years we don't want to acknowledge.

On balance, in the playoffs, Sheary was garbage at the one thing he was supposed to be good at.

 

[Peat]

I don't think Sheary is overpaid at $3 million, because $3 million is pretty insignificant in today's NHL. I didn't have a problem getting 30-40 points out of Sheary, mostly at ES, for $3 million. I thought he was a really good fit with Brassard, and despite their production in the playoffs, I think those two would have been a great duo on the 3rd line this year.

I don't think he's overpaid either. I just don't think he's going to be the best use of resources in the playoffs. And I don't care what he'd do in the RS either.

Sprong and Simon - we'll see. There's a lot of guys dogging it now, we'll see how it goes. But Sheary? We miss him, I like him as a player, but its still a complete no brainer to me.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Too bad we don't parse effectiveness by isolating single years at even-strength and wishing away the years we don't want to acknowledge.

On balance, in the playoffs, Sheary was garbage at the one thing he was supposed to be good at.

Why don't you? He produced just as well as every other top-6 forward did in 2016. He produced just as well as Hornqvist and Bonino in 2017. He produced just as poorly as everyone else did in 2018. I'm not wishing away any years, I'm pointing out that his production was right in line with everyone else every single year. To say he was garbage in the playoffs is just comically untrue, it's looking at the stats and saying they're wrong.

Like I said, he produced the same as Malkin and Rust at ES in 2016. He produced the same as Hornqvist and Bonino in 2017. He produced just as badly as everyone else minus Crosby's line in 2018. Those are actual arguments for Sheary's playoff struggles being overblown. Just repeating "he was garbage" or pointing out how he was 13th in total points isn't an argument against that.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Why don't you? He produced just as well as every other top-6 forward did in 2016. He produced just as well as Hornqvist and Bonino in 2017. He produced just as poorly as everyone else did in 2018. I'm not wishing away any years, I'm pointing out that his production was right in line with everyone else every single year. To say he was garbage in the playoffs is just comically untrue, it's looking at the stats and saying they're wrong.

He didn't on balance, Empo. That's why he was 13th. If he were as productive as those other players over that period, he wouldn't be behind them. He was.

That's a problem, particularly since unlike his competition, he had no defensive or special teams value.

Simon came in last playoffs and outproduced him in 4 fewer games and far lesser offensive opportunity. It was that easy.

 

[chethejet]

One trick Pony and when he was not that good at using his speed and ability to impact the play it was over. He has skill and is capable. But was redundant on the Pens. Pens still need to address LW and now the loss of Schultz. Plus is Brassard going to be the player the Pens brass expected him to be.

 

[Shady Machine]

We do miss Sheary right now, regardless of the back and forth debate on his playoff performances.

And unfortunately, we had to trade him to get rid of Hunwick. I don't know that Sheary was JR's only option to move, but something of value was going to Buffalo to dump Hunwick and obviously JR had JJ in mind to spend the cap on, which I think was a clear mistake.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

We do miss Sheary right now, regardless of the back and forth debate on his playoff performances.

And unfortunately, we had to trade him to get rid of Hunwick. I don't know that Sheary was JR's only option to move, but something of value was going to Buffalo to dump Hunwick and obviously JR had JJ in mind to spend the cap on, which I think was a clear mistake.

Not sure who "we" is, but I certainly do not miss him.

Our issues so far this year haven't been production...right?

 

[Tom Hanks]

It was the right time to move on from Sheary. JR wanted/wants an upgrade and I think we saw what we’d ultimately get from Sheary. Good player but it’s just how the timing and his overall game worked out.

 

[Son Goku]

I don't think anyone is missing Conor freaking Sheary right now. Jeez.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Not sure who "we" is, but I certainly do not miss him.

Our issues so far this year haven't been production...right?

Ya, Pens are scoring plenty of goals. They are third in the league in GPG at 3.71 which is pretty astounding.

Sheary was a spazz and can’t say I miss him TBTH.

Pens aren’t playing with structure and it’s like a virus that spreads throughout your lineup.

That’s the issue, not some guy that fell down every other shift.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Not sure who "we" is, but I certainly do not miss him.

Our issues so far this year haven't been production...right?

Brassard probably does. A Sheary-Brass-Horny line would be pretty good right about now.

It was worth the gamble on on having Simon, Sprong as fall backs if JR couldn’t get a deal done in the preseason.

 

[Andy99]

We do miss Sheary right now, regardless of the back and forth debate on his playoff performances.

And unfortunately, we had to trade him to get rid of Hunwick. I don't know that Sheary was JR's only option to move, but something of value was going to Buffalo to dump Hunwick and obviously JR had JJ in mind to spend the cap on, which I think was a clear mistake.

We don't really miss "him" (and we won't miss him the POs for sure)...what we miss is having someone with his offensive talents playing on the third line...Brass played better with someone like Sheary and Horny on the other side and Simon doesn't have the same offensive skill...Sheary could find the soft spot to get open for a pass and often connected when he wasn't falling down...Simon has difficulties finding the net and we have no one in WBS that seems ready to do much better there..

 

[Peat]

I think Hanks and Andy have it right. We don't miss him as a team in terms of results, but in terms of getting that 3rd line going, he was a valuable option. Not just in terms of skill, but also speed.

I'm sure things will get sorted in time.

 

[EightyOne]

Sheary had 1 less ES point in 2016 and 2017 combined than Hornqvist had in those 2 runs, and Hornqvist played just as much with Crosby as Sheary did. Sheary was 7th among forwards in ES points in 2016 with 9 ES points, which was the same as Malkin and Rust and 1 behind Crosby and Hornqvist. He was 9th among forwards in 2017 with 7 ES points, he was tied with Bonino and Hornqvist. The only year he struggled in the playoffs was in 2018, when everyone outside of Crosby, Guentzel and Hornqvist had 3 or less ES points. He only had 1 ES point in the playoffs last year, but Malkin and Brassard had 2 and Kessel and Rust had 3.

Yes, his "playoff struggles" are way overblown. The only difference in ES production between Malkin and Sheary in the playoffs over those 3 years comes from 2017. The only difference in ES production between Hornqvist and Sheary comes from 2018. Compared to guys like Hornqvist, Sheary just didn't have that 1 insane run that other guys had.

Um. I know points matter to wins, you need goals etc etc..but..holy shit..every one of the players you brought up here BRING SO MUCH MORE to the ice and team every night than Sheary. f*** ES points if you think he's equal to or better than Hornqvist.

Like. Dude. Come on. You know this. You're just twisting starts to make him seem more important than he is. Come on....

 

[Empoleon8771]

Um. I know points matter to wins, you need goals etc etc..but..holy ****..every one of the players you brought up here BRING SO MUCH MORE to the ice and team every night than Sheary. **** ES points if you think he's equal to or better than Hornqvist.

Like. Dude. Come on. You know this. You're just twisting starts to make him seem more important than he is. Come on....

No, I'm saying his "playoff struggles" are way overblown by comparing his production to guys who produced around the same. I never said he was just as good or just as important, I was saying comments about his struggles are way overblown. And they are way overblown.

Not sure who "we" is, but I certainly do not miss him.

Our issues so far this year haven't been production...right?

From the 3rd line, that has been a massive problem. Seeing how Sheary would be on the 3rd line with Brassard, who's struggling a ton right now, it's not hard to connect the dots.

Brassard probably does. A Sheary-Brass-Horny line would be pretty good right about now.

It was worth the gamble on on having Simon, Sprong as fall backs if JR couldn’t get a deal done in the preseason.

Yeah, and the problem now is that Simon has shown he can't be that guy and Sprong hasn't looked good this year (and isn't a LW, even though he should be), so they're back to square 1 of needing a LWer if their play continues.

 

[EightyOne]

So a purely offensive player scoring at about the same rate as other players who bring those tasty intangibles to the table is success?

Shouldn't he have way way more ES points that Horny who battles along the boards or in front of the net without looking like a sack of potatoes?

Guentzel at least threw hits and played defense too.

Malkin had way more babysitting duties and responsibilities.

It's not just the point totals. It's that he did nothing else but get points. And didn't outscore anyone else much while doing that. That's where his fail is.

 

[Peat]

So a purely offensive player scoring at about the same rate as other players who bring those tasty intangibles to the table is success?

Shouldn't he have way way more ES points that Horny who battles along the boards or in front of the net without looking like a sack of potatoes?

Guentzel at least threw hits and played defense too.

Malkin had way more babysitting duties and responsibilities.

It's not just the point totals. It's that he did nothing else but get points. And didn't outscore anyone else much. That's where his fail is.

It's not a huge success, it's just not a massive fail either.

 

[Empoleon8771]

His playoff struggles were overblown

His playoff struggles were overblown

His playoff struggles were overblown

I'm going to keep repeating this until people get the point that it is what I'm saying. Did he have struggles in the playoffs? Yes. Are they comically blown out of proportion on here? Hell yes, the perfect evidence is saying that Sheary was "garbage" in the playoffs for the Penguins. Sheary produced virtually the same as Rust did in all 3 runs. Yes, Sheary doesn't have the extra stuff in his game that Rust brings, but the fact that he produced the same completely invalidates the thought that Sheary was horrible in the playoffs. If he wouldn't have been producing, you'd have a point. But the reality of it is that he produced right in line with everyone else in each playoff run. Do you want more from him since he doesn't bring the defensive game of Hagelin or Rust, or the grit of Hornqvist? Obviously, but he still produced the exact same as them. The extra stuff in their games don't take their playoff results to a success and Sheary to "garbage".

 

[Gurglesons]

I really don’t get why Sprong must be played in the top nine or he won’t succeed, management is ruining him, blah blah blah.

And then in that same breath Sheary is one dimensional and brought nothing to the ice. He led the league in ES PPG one year was 4th in ES goals in a terrible ES year last year an admittedly bad year for him and he was relatively solid in spurts in the 15-16 cup run.

Sheary and Sprong have different skill sets, but the end product is likely pretty similar.

Sheltered, 13-15 minutes most night and completely offensive players.

I just don’t get how Sprong’s misusage is a calamity, but trading Sheary made 100% sense and he is terrible..

Not even a huge Sheary fan, but he is the exact type of player that helps win cups in a support role even at 3 mil.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

His playoff struggles were overblown

His playoff struggles were overblown

His playoff struggles were overblown

I'm going to keep repeating this until people get the point that it is what I'm saying. Did he have struggles in the playoffs? Yes. Are they comically blown out of proportion on here? Hell yes, the perfect evidence is saying that Sheary was "garbage" in the playoffs for the Penguins. Sheary produced virtually the same as Rust did in all 3 runs. Yes, Sheary doesn't have the extra stuff in his game that Rust brings, but the fact that he produced the same completely invalidates the thought that Sheary was horrible in the playoffs. If he wouldn't have been producing, you'd have a point. But the reality of it is that he produced right in line with everyone else in each playoff run. Do you want more from him since he doesn't bring the defensive game of Hagelin or Rust, or the grit of Hornqvist? Obviously, but he still produced the exact same as them. The extra stuff in their games don't take their playoff results to a success and Sheary to "garbage".

Fact is, Sheary got scratched because his play was so awful for a good stretch. So yes, he was playing like garbage. Enough so that his coach (who has some familial connection to this player) benched him for very important games.

I'm not sure what your threshold is for bad play but Sheary exhibited it

 

[canadianguy77]

I wouldn't have had a problem with keeping Sheary if he played for half of that salary, because the truth of the matter is, he spent half of his minutes on his ass. I went to a game in Raleigh last season, and it was freaking embarrassing. He killed any sort of momentum in the offensive zone. The puck didn't even have to be near him. He just fell when there was any sort of contact.

That guy isn't even going to be in the league in 2 years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fact is, Sheary got scratched because his play was so awful for a good stretch. So yes, he was playing like garbage. Enough so that his coach (who has some familial connection to this player) benched him for very important games.

I'm not sure what your threshold is for bad play but Sheary exhibited it

Hagelin also got scratched in the playoffs. Guentzel was nearly scratched, if he wasn't outright scratched. Maatta got scratched in the playoffs. To point out Sheary being scratched is a pretty weak argument for Sheary being a massive failure in the playoffs.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Hagelin also got scratched in the playoffs. Guentzel was nearly scratched, if he wasn't outright scratched. Maatta got scratched in the playoffs. To point out Sheary being scratched is a pretty weak argument for Sheary being a massive failure in the playoffs.

Hags was coming off a major foot injury- there's at least some reasoning behind the poor play

Maata was flat out bad and he was rightfully scratched. I'm not sure how that's supporting your argument here?

And what in the world does "nearly scratched" mean?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hags was coming off a major foot injury- there's at least some reasoning behind the poor play

Wasn't Sheary injured in 2016 and that negatively impacted his play? If you want to bring up the injury excuse, why wouldn't that apply to Sheary when he had his knee on knee hit with Wilson?

Maata was flat out bad and he was rightfully scratched. I'm not sure how that's supporting your argument here?

Because no one argues Maatta was a massive failure in the playoffs in the last 3 years because he was healthy scratched.

And what in the world does "nearly scratched" mean?

Guentzel was demoted to the 4th line against Ottawa and a lot of people were thinking he was going to be a healthy scratched in the ECF. It's why he was dead last in ice time in the game 7 OT win against the Senators that year.

 

[Peat]

Getting scratched because of bad play doesn't mean you had a bad play-offs overall as long as you come back strong. 2 goals and 4 points in the last 7 games of the play-offs is a decent return.