Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[Beerz]

lol, delusional.

Gudas provides double the impact that Joker does. Not to mention, it would be nice to have a banger with Power.

Of course the Sabres wouldn't want to add a scoring winger with grit. They would rather bring in a guy like Greenway, who provides neither.

I'd love Bertuzzi but I can't see a logical contract for him. The way he plays he is going to be hurt and break down. He is 28 right now .. someone is going to give him a 7 or 8 yr contract.. I don't want it to be us

 

[TageGod]

I am once again beating the lafrienere drum. Really wonder what that cost would be

Playoffs had to have killed some value

reclamation projects usually a bad idea, unless its Granato effect. He will still be too expensive though

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'd love Bertuzzi but I can't see a logical contract for him. The way he plays he is going to be hurt and break down. He is 28 right now .. someone is going to give him a 7 or 8 yr contract.. I don't want it to be us

His disinterest in defense is a bit concerning. I do like him though

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

The top line was back together by game #3 vs Oilers. The top line started the season apart 2gms, together 6gms, apart 5gms and then back together. They stayed together pretty much from then on until Tage’s injury.

At the start of the season Donny was jugging a lot. He was trying to figure out who fit where while also cycling young players in and out of lineup. The template he worked off while doing this….

Skinner/Tage/Tuch
_____/Cozens/____
_____/Mitts/Olofsson **
Girgs***/___/Okposo

** Olofsson first two games on top line, primarily with Mitts after
*** Girgs played as much at center as wing until Jost was claimed.

The 4 “openings” were filled with a rotation of Peterka, Quinn, Krebs, Asplund and Hino.

They were hoping Krebs would figure out wing + Asplund 4th line center. Neither worked out further complicating things and leading to even more shuffling that frequently had Girgs sliding to center.

Game #18 -> Last game of 8gm losing streak. Quinn returns to lineup from injury and the Tage/Kid lines making up the top 6 is in place for good. Jost is claimed off waivers at this time.

Game #19 -> Jost enters the lineup. They spend the next five games sorting out where he fits (wing or center + what line). They settle on 4th line center. Krebs sat for most, if not all, of this stretch.

Game #24 -> Krebs returns to line up centering the 3rd line between VO/Mitts. This is the start of Mitts on the wing as well.

Game #26 -> After two games of VO/Krebs/Mitts they decide its nor working. So they swap Jost and Krebs for this game. Thus creating the line structure we’ve had ever since.


You’re 100% correct when you say there won’t be the same level of chaos with the lines at the start of next year. But the cause of it wasn’t Donny tinkering with the top line. It was him trying to juggle multiple things with the forwards while trying to piece together a lineup.


EDIT: Jost turned out to be a huge waiver addition. He really helped stabilize things.

Tinkering...juggling multiple issues...same thing unless semantics matter that much. I don't really care the semantics because I totally acknowledge there were challenges to figuring out where some players fit in the FW group. IMO, not sticking with 53-72-89 from the start kind of added to the challenges instead of settling things. I don't agree with that but it's not something to heavily criticize Granato over. I brought it up in the context of the team being better off next season without so much confusion to sort out.

Sir, this is HFSabres. We don’t deal with facts here. Only hot takes.

Hot take? Oh brother. Pointing out that the top line wasn't settled until mid Nov, and not agreeing with that, is a hot take?

 

[Chainshot]

Am I the only one that feels like the Sabres are always a day or so behind trends in the league?

Other teams have been signing Russian players for a few days now it seems like. But not Buffalo.

Still plenty of folks to sign in many places - seems a few got a solid jump on their work though. I'd like to see them get it done so that they can have guys in for Dev Camp.

 

[Matt Ress]

I mean, it is kind of up to the players to sign too. You can’t just put a gun to their head and make them sign.

In Russia you can

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Tinkering...juggling multiple issues...same thing unless semantics matter that much. I don't really care the semantics because I totally acknowledge there were challenges to figuring out where some players fit in the FW group. IMO, not sticking with 53-72-89 from the start kind of added to the challenges instead of settling things. I don't agree with that but it's not something to heavily criticize Granato over. I brought it up in the context of the team being better off next season without so much confusion to sort out.


Hot take? Oh brother. Pointing out that the top line wasn't settled until mid Nov, and not agreeing with that, is a hot take?

My comment was in general, not about what you said.

 

[joshjull]

Tinkering...juggling multiple issues...same thing unless semantics matter that much. I don't really care the semantics because I totally acknowledge there were challenges to figuring out where some players fit in the FW group. IMO, not sticking with 53-72-89 from the start kind of added to the challenges instead of settling things. I don't agree with that but it's not something to heavily criticize Granato over. I brought it up in the context of the team being better off next season without so much confusion to sort out.

It’s not semantics pointing out you were wrong about the top line not being together until mid November. I’m assuming you didn’t know they were together from game #3 to game #8.

You’ve also posted a few times that Donny made a “head scratching decision” tinkering with the top line. The implication being he caused the issues with line stability. As opposed to instability coming from the very nature of the situation itself. It was literally one of the focuses of the season to figure out who goes where.

Not being willing to move guys off the top line as part of that makes little sense. They can always been out back together. There was nothing “head scratching” about what he did.

Hot take? Oh brother. Pointing out that the top line wasn't settled until mid Nov, and not agreeing with that, is a hot take?

I didn’t think your previous post was was a hot take. But you’re certainly moving the goalposts. Now it’s the top line wasn’t “settled” until mid November. As opposed to not together at all until then.


It’s also a bit much to blame the teams struggles during the losing streak on anything Donny did with the top line. Our defense was battered during those games. We were missing Sammy, Joker, Boosh and Dahlin for all or some of those games.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

It’s not semantics pointing out you were wrong about the top line not being together until mid November. I’m assuming you didn’t know they were together from game #3 to game #8.

You’ve also posted a few times that Donny made a “head scratching decision” tinkering with the top line. The implication being he caused the issues with line stability. As opposed to instability coming from the very nature of the situation itself. It was literally one of the focuses of the season to figure out who goes where.

Not being willing to move guys off the top line as part of that makes little sense. They can always been out back together. There was nothing “head scratching” about what he did.



I didn’t think your previous post was was a hot take. But you’re certainly moving the goalposts. Now it’s the top line wasn’t “settled” until mid November. As opposed to not together at all until then.


It’s also a bit much to blame the teams struggles during the losing streak on anything Donny did with the top line. Our defense was battered during those games. We were missing Sammy, Joker, Boosh and Dahlin for all or some of those games.

Uh yeah this is getting dumb. Next time I bring up FW combos I'll be sure to dig into the spreadsheet and make sure who the @#$% was on the ice for every minute of every game. I knew that line didn't finally stay together until Nov, but I sure as hell didn't believe that the three of them never stepped on the ice together at the same time for 18 straight games or whatever (I'm sure you'll stat check and then say it was 17 games and how I'm exaggerating out of total malice to drag Granato's good name through the mud). Together for a few games, not together for others...damn the general point is clear enough and you go pretending to be the "gotcha" man. Spare me.

Then for the bolded - how exactly did you make this up in your head? I never said the team's overall struggles were due to the top line not being together. Never even hinted at that. I already stated what the context of the comment was about.

 

[Ehran]

Still plenty of folks to sign in many places - seems a few got a solid jump on their work though. I'd like to see them get it done so that they can have guys in for Dev Camp.

See !

I bitched and GMKA listened! At least half way that is, so far!

 

[TehDoak]

Looking at potential growth from the forward group just merely on goal production just goes to how you view the potential for growth much differently than Adams likely looks at it.

For primarily offensive players (Skinner, Thompson, Tuch, Dahlin, etc) it's fine to look at them in terms of production.

It's not like Tage is going to become a shutdown player or skinner is going to be a selke nominee. Sure they can improve in their own zone a bit, but that is likely going to take a coaching staff change.

And as far as Chychrun getting injured, nobody should be too surprised. And it just goes to how additions are not guaranteed to improve a team. Just like how largely standing pat does not mean that a team will stagnate.

Regardless of the path that Adams takes this summer, or at the TDL, results are not guaranteed.

I mean, using that logic why make any trade ever?

Adams could make a big move or two that the fanbase celebrates and it doesn't work out for a variety of reasons. <cough>Chychrun trade</cough>

Adams could make minimal changes and they make the playoffs next year because Levi is a unicorn and the kids take much bigger steps than many expect.

Only time will tell what moves Adams makes and the impact they have.

I mean, some things are predictable. We didn't actively work to improve the PK....we stayed at the bottom of the PK. We didn't take any steps to improve the goaltending...the goaltending still was bad. We didn't add anyone who was good at faceoffs....we stayed bad at faceoffs.

There is low hanging, "easy" (in terms of acquisition and salary spend) fixes available to us.

The median PK was 79.01%. We were at 73.1%. We had 226 power play opportunities against. Just improving to the median would reduce our goals against by 14. That's 5% reduction in goals against without any ES system changes. That is just changing an assistant coach and adding some utility players to your 4th line.

And sure, making those changes doesn't guarantee that kind of jump in goals against. But....it'd be encouraging to see that front office isn't just going to sit back and hope for the best this summer. You can't just look at other teams making an effort to improve and say "See, it doesn't work". The Devils are a glaring example of what can happen if you combine player development with aggressive team improvement.

 

[Jim Bob]

And sure, making those changes doesn't guarantee that kind of jump in goals against. But....it'd be encouraging to see that front office isn't just going to sit back and hope for the best this summer. You can't just look at other teams making an effort to improve and say "See, it doesn't work". The Devils are a glaring example of what can happen if you combine player development with aggressive team improvement.

It won't be encouraging if Adams makes moves that blow up in his face.

There are times when the best move you make is not making a move. The rumor about Thompson being available for a 5th round pick and nobody taking the Sabres up on it is one of the best examples ever.

All I am saying is that Adams could once again make minimal moves. And they could make the playoffs next year without the volume or "splashiness" that many fans or media want.

Maybe Adams takes a different approach and makes more moves this off season than he has the previous two. That would surprise me, but it could happen.

I just think we see things play out like the trade deadline did with rumors being out there that Adams is interested in guys. But, he doesn't land them because he is unwilling to give up the picks and/or prospects that the other GM(s) want. I think every GM will be asking for Savoie and Kulich this summer. And my guess is that Adams will not move off of his stance that they are untouchable.

 

[TehDoak]

It won't be encouraging if Adams makes moves that blow up in his face.

I'm not sure how you would describe missing the playoffs because you failed to to address the two glaring problems with your roster (goaltending and the PK), but him doing nothing pretty much just blew up in his face. So it cuts both ways.

There are times when the best move you make is not making a move. The rumor about Thompson being available for a 5th round pick and nobody taking the Sabres up on it is one of the best examples ever.

All I am saying is that Adams could once again make minimal moves. And they could make the playoffs next year without the volume or "splashiness" that many fans or media want.

Maybe Adams takes a different approach and makes more moves this off season than he has the previous two. That would surprise me, but it could happen.

I just think we see things play out like the trade deadline did with rumors being out there that Adams is interested in guys. But, he doesn't land them because he is unwilling to give up the picks and/or prospects that the other GM(s) want. I think every GM will be asking for Savoie and Kulich this summer. And my guess is that Adams will not move off of his stance that they are untouchable.

......and the idea that we have any untouchable prospect at this point is silly. Varying degrees of expensive, sure. But there isn't a franchise altering guy in our pipeline. Sadly you are probably right about what he will actually do, which is the bare minimum.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'm not sure how you would describe missing the playoffs because you failed to to address the two glaring problems with your roster (goaltending and the PK), but him doing nothing pretty much just blew up in his face. So it cuts both ways.

When it comes to goaltending, he tried to address it last off season.

But, at least one goalie, and reportedly two goalies, did not want to come here before he settled on signing Comrie. We know that Murray used his movement clause to block a trade that Adams had agreed to. And Chad D has hinted at information he has that Adams targeted a different UFA goalie. But, that goalie felt that signing elsewhere was a better fit.

That talks to how playing behind this team is not attractive to goalies who have options.

And as far as the PK goes, some of that goes with the goaltending and some of that goes with the decision to have a young, high event team.

Things like PK ability, defensive awareness, and faceoff ability develop over time. And a team with the youngest roster in the NHL is likely to go through challenges in those areas as we have seen.

I think that Adams will shift his approach to roster building eventually. Before last season, I thought it would be this off season. But, given how things went, I am now starting to expect the shift to be next season. Only time will tell.

 

[Diaspora]

When it comes to goaltending, he tried to address it last off season.

But, at least one goalie, and reportedly two goalies, did not want to come here before he settled on signing Comrie. We know that Murray used his movement clause to block a trade that Adams had agreed to. And Chad D has hinted at information he has that Adams targeted a different UFA goalie. But, that goalie felt that signing elsewhere was a better fit.

That talks to how playing behind this team is not attractive to goalies who have options.

And as far as the PK goes, some of that goes with the goaltending and some of that goes with the decision to have a young, high event team.

Things like PK ability, defensive awareness, and faceoff ability develop over time. And a team with the youngest roster in the NHL is likely to go through challenges in those areas as we have seen.

I think that Adams will shift his approach to roster building eventually. Before last season, I thought it would be this off season. But, given how things went, I am now starting to expect the shift to be next season. Only time will tell.

I agree with most of what you're saying.

Only adjustment I'd add is that Buffalo's situation in summer 23 is far, far different from what it was in summer 22. We should expect to be a more desirable landing spot for UFAs and that our assets (outside of draft picks) should be more highly valued in trades by other teams. So I can understand where someone could support higher expectations for Adams to improve the team.

Where I think he should tread lightly is in making moves that would interfere with the developing leadership in the room. Core leaders still must be nurtured and be given the opportunity to establish a long-term identity. An addition can be made to supplement that, but bringing in a big personality to supplant them would be a bad idea right now. They've earned another year to see if they can progress towards being contenders, or if they're just buddies.

 

[Jim Bob]

I agree with most of what you're saying.

Only adjustment I'd add is that Buffalo's situation in summer 23 is far, far different from what it was in summer 22. We should expect to be a more desirable landing spot for UFAs and that our assets (outside of draft picks) should be more highly valued in trades by other teams. So I can understand where someone could support higher expectations for Adams to improve the team.

Where I think he should tread lightly is in making moves that would interfere with the developing leadership in the room. Core leaders still must be nurtured and be given the opportunity to establish a long-term identity. An addition can be made to supplement that, but bringing in a big personality to supplant them would be a bad idea right now. They've earned another year to see if they can progress towards being contenders, or if they're just buddies.

When it comes to UFAs, handing out big money, long term deals works out poorly for the team more often than it ends up being a good idea.

PLAYER	AGE	POS	TEAM	DATE	TYPE	STRUCTURE	LENGTH	VALUE	CAP HIT
Frans Nielsen	32	C, LW	DET	Jul. 1, 2016	Standard	1-way	6	$31,500,000	$5,250,000
Loui Eriksson ​	30	LW, RW	VAN	Jul. 1, 2016	Standard	1-way	6	$36,000,000	$6,000,000
David Backes ​	32	C, RW	BOS	Jul. 1, 2016	Standard	1-way	5	$30,000,000	$6,000,000
Andrew Ladd	30	LW	NYI	Jul. 1, 2016	Standard	1-way	7	$38,500,000	$5,500,000
Milan Lucic	28	LW, RW	EDM	Jul. 1, 2016	Standard	1-way	7	$42,000,000	$6,000,000
Kyle Okposo ​	28	RW	BUF	Jul. 1, 2016	Standard	1-way	7	$42,000,000	$6,000,000

Here are the six big money, long term deals that were handed out to UFAs on July 1, 2016.

I do not see Adams giving out a big money 1 year deal like he did with Taylor Hall or Anaheim did with Klingberg. And I doubt he wants to give anyone a big money, long term deal with the extensions he will be trying to work on this summer.

And as far as attractiveness as a destination, I think a lot will depend on opportunity that a player sees here, even beyond thinking the team is a playoff contender.

 

[Diaspora]

When it comes to UFAs, handing out big money, long term deals works out poorly for the team more often than it ends up being a good idea.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]PLAYER[/TD]
[TD]AGE[/TD]
[TD]POS[/TD]
[TD]TEAM[/TD]
[TD]DATE[/TD]
[TD]TYPE[/TD]
[TD]STRUCTURE[/TD]
[TD]LENGTH[/TD]
[TD]VALUE[/TD]
[TD]CAP HIT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

​

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Frans Nielsen[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE][/TD]

[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]C, LW[/TD]

[TD]

​

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]DET[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE][/TD]

[TD]Jul. 1, 2016[/TD]
[TD]Standard[/TD]
[TD]1-way[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]$31,500,000[/TD]
[TD]$5,250,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Vancouver Canucks signed Loui Eriksson (6 Years / $6,000,000 AAV) - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps​

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Loui Eriksson[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]

[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]LW, RW[/TD]
[TD]VAN[/TD]
[TD]Jul. 1, 2016[/TD]
[TD]Standard[/TD]
[TD]1-way[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]$36,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$6,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Boston Bruins signed David Backes (5 Years / $6,000,000 AAV) - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps​

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]David Backes[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]

[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]C, RW[/TD]
[TD]BOS[/TD]
[TD]Jul. 1, 2016[/TD]
[TD]Standard[/TD]
[TD]1-way[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]$30,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$6,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

​

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Andrew Ladd[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE][/TD]

[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]
[TD]NYI[/TD]
[TD]Jul. 1, 2016[/TD]
[TD]Standard[/TD]
[TD]1-way[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]$38,500,000[/TD]
[TD]$5,500,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

​

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Milan Lucic[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE][/TD]

[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]LW, RW[/TD]
[TD]EDM[/TD]
[TD]Jul. 1, 2016[/TD]
[TD]Standard[/TD]
[TD]1-way[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]$42,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$6,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Buffalo Sabres signed Kyle Okposo (7 Years / $6,000,000 AAV) - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps​

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Kyle Okposo[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]

[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[TD]BUF[/TD]
[TD]Jul. 1, 2016[/TD]
[TD]Standard[/TD]
[TD]1-way[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]$42,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$6,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Here are the six big money, long term deals that were handed out to UFAs on July 1, 2016.

I do not see Adams giving out a big money 1 year deal like he did with Taylor Hall or Anaheim did with Klingberg. And I doubt he wants to give anyone a big money, long term deal with the extensions he will be trying to work on this summer.

And as far as attractiveness as a destination, I think a lot will depend on opportunity that a player sees here, even beyond thinking the team is a playoff contender.

In no way do I want to see them sign long-term big money UFAs this summer. Or maybe even ever.

The point I was making is that our competitive stance has improved in the market. Some excellent players (not all) who would have never considered signing at market-value in Buffalo in 22 might consider it in 23 because of projections and, yes, vibes. Our players would get better trade returns for the same reasons.

Improvement in market position rightly leads to higher expectations regarding Adams' performance because now he will have more and better options. But that doesn't recommend any particular course of action.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Preface: this is all top of the head, stream of consciousness stuff and could be way off in relative value, but here goes:


My off-season would include trying to acquire a fairly established goalie on a 2 or 3 year deal, whether that's a UFA like Korpisalo or a trade. I'd move UPL to Seattle for Will Borgen to add toughness to the blueliners. I assume Girgs is going to want to test UFA and am 50/50 on whether or not KO comes back. I'd take him back as a 12th forward and leader at 1m for the year, but that's up to him. I like Jost but am also fine with letting him move on if he wants more than 1.25m for 1 year. He's going to be blocking guys before too long anyway.

I look to move Joker and Olofsson out, possibly as a package deal, for whatever I can get. Ideally I want a Samuelsson clone, but if the Sabres only get picks, then so be it. I look to not draft in the first round, instead flipping the 1st + picks acquired for Joker/VO for a later 1st and a defenseman or a lesser pick and a goalie (Saros?).

I'm also reaching out to Miles Wood in UFA to be a 4th line energy guy to replace one of KO/Girgs, assuming both don't return. JT Compher and Ryan Graves also receive phone calls. Korpisalo as well if there isn't a goalie acquired at the draft.

I think next season, Rousek and Savoie make the team. I don't like rushing a guy from juniors to the NHL but he's so far beyond the WHL it's ridiculous, and he's not Rochester eligible. He also plays like an NHLer in a lot of ways and should be treated as such .

Prospect wise, I try to get Novikov and Huglen inked. The longer this goes on the less likely Johnson signs, so either include him in a trade as a 2nd round pick value equivalent or just take the pick.

 

[DatDude44]

What's it like going from the biggest joke in hockey 3 seasons ago to being arguably the healthiest top to bottom franchise in the league now?

Playoffs next year, Deep talent wise at every position in the system and now that might include goaltending.

Super excited for this team next year. Tuch might be the most slept on player in the NHL

 

[RefsIdeas]

I thought this was a little interesting. There’s an app called “The Sports Aux”. Players/coaches/management have to be verified in order to leave a review. I went and took a look at the Sabres coaching staff. Don Granato had one review which was a 10/10, but it wasn’t as kind for Jason Christie:

 

[TageGod]

What's it like going from the biggest joke in hockey 3 seasons ago to being arguably the healthiest top to bottom franchise in the league now?

Playoffs next year, Deep talent wise at every position in the system and now that might include goaltending.

Super excited for this team next year. Tuch might be the most slept on player in the NHL

Alex Tuch may be the most aggressive and effective forechecker in the entire league. O'Reilly level takeaways to boot.

 

[Chainshot]

I thought this was a little interesting. There’s an app called “The Sports Aux”. Players/coaches/management have to be verified in order to leave a review. I went and took a look at the Sabres coaching staff. Don Granato had one review which was a 10/10, but it wasn’t as kind for Jason Christie:

View attachment 702410

That's savage.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

That's savage.

and concerning

 

[BuffaloGooner]

I thought this was a little interesting. There’s an app called “The Sports Aux”. Players/coaches/management have to be verified in order to leave a review. I went and took a look at the Sabres coaching staff. Don Granato had one review which was a 10/10, but it wasn’t as kind for Jason Christie:

View attachment 702410

Been wondering about reviews for our coaching staff since I saw this on Reddit

 

[RefsIdeas]

Been wondering about reviews for our coaching staff since I saw this on Reddit

That's exactly what prompted me to search it lol