Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

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brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,758
8,013
In the Panderverse
I took a LOT of heat earlier in the week for saying a trade for Tage should be on the table. A lot of that is basic human nature, which I see a lot in the stock market. Human nature is to want to buy a rapidly appreciating asset, only to sell once it inevitably falls. Buy high, sell low. Or keep until well after peak value.

Now, where I did deserve to be called out is in the fact I didn't say what I'd trade him for. Well, here is the offer. Please don't say this is a troll job, as it is not

Tage to Nashville for Juuse Saros, Tommy Novak, Dante Fabbro, and a first round pick (I wanted Forsberg, but he has a no movement clause)

<snip>
Others have rebutted with the lopsided value, battleships for rowboats, and the "players who want to be here" angles.

I'll use your stock price sell high buy low argument to rebut with:
1. I'd rather hold the blue-chip dividend-paying stock which has increased sales, earnings, and dividends quarter after quarter consistently.
2. In the Warren Buffet / Charlie Munger mold, (paraphrasing) "I don't think about buying the stock, I think about buying the company. Do I want to own the company?"

I want to own a Fortune 50 Tage Thompson more so than a couple Fortune 300 firms and a NASDAQ penny stock.
When you get a player like Tage on the contract he has…you do not, under any circumstances, trade him for a package of players. because you can get players the quality that you are trading for much easier than players like Tage at his age and contract. Much, much, much easier.

If you think Mittelstadt can produce like Tage if he had better linemates…you don’t trade Tage. You get him better linemates.
(and)
You can’t move Tage for parts. It’s hard to even make a top player for top player swap work because anyone in Tage’s weight class is making or will make a hell of a lot more than Tage does. His value is way above just elite 1C. He’s also paid like a 2C. And that’s in year ONE of a seven year deal that will only see him drop down the list of highest paid centers.

hes the 58th highest paid forward next year before an off-season of some forwards getting new deals. Think about that

not to mention…can you imagine Adams explaining how he went from “we want people who want to be here” to trading a guy who wanted to be here so badly that he didnt bet on himself to drive up the price and then got even better? For parts that he could have acquired in dozens of different ways?
I recognize I disagree with a fair number of your views, but I can't agree strongly enough with the above two points.

You move elite pieces for other elite pieces ie Turgeon for LaFontaine or Housley for Hawerchuk, moving them for a conglomeration of lessor pieces is inane. Now obviously extenuating circumstances may play a role but for an additional 7yrs of underpaid performance there's no number of row boats that returns that battleship
Exactly. There is no "held hostage" deal here like existed with Lindros, etc.

I want to use opportunity to say big Thank You to all Sabres forum members to not laughing about my English as English is my third language. You guys awesome.
Your English is better than over half the American citizens. Trust me.


Re-sign:
- Zemgus
- Jost

Let walk:
- Okposo
- Hino

Extension:
- Dahlin
- Mitts

Somehow get rid of (trade, to ROC, etc):
- UPL
- Olofsson
- Joker
- Bryson

Promote:
- Savoie

UFA/Trade:
- #4 D partner for Power
- Bottom pair partner for Boosh
- 1 middle-6 forward. Defensively responsible and can PK is a plus.

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
JJP- Cozens - Quinn
UFA - Mitts - Savoie
Greenway - Krebs - Girgs
Jost

Dahlin - Samuelsson
Power - UFA
UFA - Boosh
Stillman

Levi
Comrie
Agree with all the above with the exception of: re-signing Okposo instead of letting him walk and be willing to wait another year to re-sign Mitts (but would not be opposed to an extension).

The lines are fine, but the season's end forced some other options which weren't bad. I remain open-minded for next year.
 

paulmm3

Registered User
Mar 29, 2014
1,220
695
Watching the Bruins game last night and having his contract status and the Bruins' cap situation dawn on me, Tyler Bertuzzi is someone I'd be interested in pursuing this summer. He brings some controversy with the last name and the vaccine thing I guess, but he seems well liked by his teammates and would bring needed sandpaper and skill at LW.
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
79,204
41,760
Hamburg,NY
"You guys"? $9.2M on 11.04% of cap hit would be fine with me. There are a few people who are talking about 10-12M AAV. I don't see many pushing for things in the 9's, we have folks speculating that it will be more which doesn't fit the salaries of most of the league's best already. There is a case to be made that Fox is more of a % of cap hit than Dahlin should get because Dahlin doesn't have the hardware. It would be great if he came in at something starting with an 8, I just don't see it happening. And nothing more than starting with a 9.
I don’t see how

Using % of the cap as a direct comparison only works comparing like to like. Dahlin with only 1 yr of RFA left is a different situation than Fox signing with 3 RFA years left (Or Makar with 4 left for that matter). Dahlin has WAY more leverage.

Fox only played 2 seasons (D+4 and D+5) before his extension. Dahlin outperformed him in both of his comparable seasons. Dahlin is the only one of the two at that point of their careers with a 70+ point full NHL season. Fox showed he had the potential for it but hadn’t done it yet. That came after the extension.


I feel sometimes Dahlin is being punished in these discussions for being in the NHL immediately as a 18yr old. I don’t think it’s intentional, just that posters forget. Or don’t factor it in when doing these comparisons.
 
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SharkInABoloTie

Registered User
Sponsor
Mar 8, 2016
3,408
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The Heart of Darkness
My plan for offseason has slowly morphed into:

f*** the Bruins

Like Bill Murray in Rushmore, I'm taking dead aim at the rich boys



Swayman? Offersheet.

UFAs. Give me Nosek (59% on faceoffs this year). Give me Clifton. Throw in Hathaway for good measure. Let's start Boston Bruins survivor support group over here.

You going to sign away Ullmark? You going to tell Taylor Hall to only accept a trade there?

The bill has come due, f***heads.

I'd love Clifton. Is he a top 4 guy or can he be on this team? On a slight tangent, what does Tom Wilson make these days...
 
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Jacob582

Registered User
Oct 16, 2012
10,011
3,609
Also I doubt a guy like Tanev is waiving his trade protection to come not only to the east coast, but specifically to Buffalo.
Is his wife from the west coast? He was born and played near Toronto. Played in Rochester. Why no east coast?
 
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brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,758
8,013
In the Panderverse
For all the talk on the Rangers D-men (the Fox contract comparisons for Dahlin, Lindgren or Schneider off-season trade for BUF, etc.)...
Does anyone think K'Andre Miller could be pried away? I know he's a NY fan favorite, but surely the Rangers can't pay all their d-men and forwards...

What about a strategy for BUF to target Miller but then "settle" for Schneider?? (make Rangers think they 'won'...)
 

Dingo44

We already won the trade
Sponsor
Jul 21, 2015
11,468
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Greensboro, NC
Watching the Bruins game last night and having his contract status and the Bruins' cap situation dawn on me, Tyler Bertuzzi is someone I'd be interested in pursuing this summer. He brings some controversy with the last name and the vaccine thing I guess, but he seems well liked by his teammates and would bring needed sandpaper and skill at LW.

I'd LOVE Bertuzzi. He's something this team needs. My Red Wing loving wife and her family are PISSED they traded him, though I graciously say he could always come back next season as a UFA - but why not us? No way Boston can afford him.
 

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
154,019
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Tarnation
I'd love Clifton. Is he a top 4 guy or can he be on this team? On a slight tangent, what does Tom Wilson make these days...

Carlo's the better pure defenseman on the Bruins but Clifton is ferocious and might be able to handle the 2nd pairing role. It would be a gamble I've been advocating for.

As for Wilson, the Caps are going to get a haul next deadline if he's made available. Looking at what teams spent on getting toughguys to injure their way through the opening rounds, someone likely pays close to Jeannot silliness to have him (or even more).
 

dortt

Registered User
Sep 21, 2018
5,343
2,685
Houston, TX
Others have rebutted with the lopsided value, battleships for rowboats, and the "players who want to be here" angles.

I'll use your stock price sell high buy low argument to rebut with:
1. I'd rather hold the blue-chip dividend-paying stock which has increased sales, earnings, and dividends quarter after quarter consistently.
2. In the Warren Buffet / Charlie Munger mold, (paraphrasing) "I don't think about buying the stock, I think about buying the company. Do I want to own the company?"

I want to own a Fortune 50 Tage Thompson more so than a couple Fortune 300 firms and a NASDAQ penny stock.

(and)

That is a very fair assessment. You want the fortune 50 (thompson) vs a fortune 100 (saros), fortune 500 (novak), a solid russell 2000 company (fabbro), and a biotech that should be profitable soon (the first round pick)

Far less risk to stay with the already well proven player
 

Rowley Birkin

Registered User
Oct 31, 2004
10,892
4,049
For all the talk on the Rangers D-men (the Fox contract comparisons for Dahlin, Lindgren or Schneider off-season trade for BUF, etc.)...
Does anyone think K'Andre Miller could be pried away? I know he's a NY fan favorite, but surely the Rangers can't pay all their d-men and forwards...

What about a strategy for BUF to target Miller but then "settle" for Schneider?? (make Rangers think they 'won'...)
Can someone sell me on Schneider? I get that he's young & has draft pedigree. Is he really much of an upgrade over Jokiharju at this point though?
 

Jacob582

Registered User
Oct 16, 2012
10,011
3,609
My plan for offseason has slowly morphed into:

f*** the Bruins

Swayman? Offersheet.

UFAs. Give me Nosek (59% on faceoffs this year). Give me Clifton. Throw in Hathaway for good measure. Let's start Boston Bruins survivor support group over here.

You going to sign away Ullmark? You going to tell Taylor Hall to only accept a trade there?

The bill has come due, f***heads.
Makes me wish that someone (us?) claimed Nick Foligno back in October. Also Jordan Martinook (Carolina). A warning to the spenders not to play too fast and loose with the salary cap.

Of course Foligno was coming off a horrendous season last year so a claim would have been viewed as a salary cap favor to the Bruins.
 

Zman5778

Moderator
Oct 4, 2005
26,322
24,762
Cressona/Reading, PA
Can someone sell me on Schneider? I get that he's young & has draft pedigree. Is he really much of an upgrade over Jokiharju at this point though?
Plays a drastically different type of game than Jokiharju. There's certainly questions on if he's ready for 20 min/game with Power. If we're looking for a Cobra clone...........Schneider is pretty close.

That said, there's ZERO chance he's available this offseason -- NYR needs more contributors on ELCs, not less.
 
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Rowley Birkin

Registered User
Oct 31, 2004
10,892
4,049
Plays a drastically different type of game than Jokiharju. There's certainly questions on if he's ready for 20 min/game with Power. If we're looking for a Cobra clone...........Schneider is pretty close.

That said, there's ZERO chance he's available this offseason -- NYR needs more contributors on ELCs, not less.
My only comment would be that he gets very different usage to Samuelsson in NY behind Fox & Trouba. Only 12th in team TOI. Easily 6th of their defenceman.

That plus the fact that he's so young would give me slight cause for concern.

But... last point is true. Seems that the only way NY trade him would be for another instant contributor on a longer ELC?

Maybe a guy like Savoie or Kulich straight up if NY thought either were ready & were happy icing another cheap bottom pair RD behind their two studs ? 3 ELC years vs 1 ELC year...

If we're talking about a 21 yo, righty Samuelsson clone I'd trade either one of Savoie or Kulich for that in a heartbeat, given our respective strengths & weaknesses.
 

Jim Bob

RIP RJ
Feb 27, 2002
58,253
38,950
Rochester, NY
AD396794-0060-49C0-942D-B4055B6865B7.png


Well, it’s at least UPL, Sammy, and JJP down in HH.
 
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