Value of: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins to Carolina

[Voight]

Edmonton would probably want Hanifin or Faulk and I can't say I blame them. RNH is still fairly young and is a solid number one centre on most teams in the league due to his two way play.

Carolina fans will likely balk at those demands and thus the thread is over before it begins.

Well yea they can ask just for the sake of it but I doubt Chiarelli thinks hes going to get one of them.

 

[Homesick]

Not Hanifin or Faulk. Oilers would have to add if they wanted one of those 2. Fleury + 2nd in 2017 is fair value imo, but don't really know what canes fans needs are.

would you take Fleury +2nd for Marner/Nylander?

 

[belair]

would you take Fleury +2nd for Marner/Nylander?

 

[ellismate]

Edmonton would probably want Hanifin or Faulk and I can't say I blame them. RNH is still fairly young and is a solid number one centre on most teams in the league due to his two way play.

Carolina fans will likely balk at those demands and thus the thread is over before it begins.

Well edmonton would certainly need to add someone who isn't an underachiever on a bloated contract to make that work.

 

[Draiskull]

Wasn't interested from a Canes standpoint even before I saw Oilers fans asking again for Faulk. (I get it since that's their need, but it's still a crazy ask.) RNH is just a guy I do not want unless the price is ridiculously-low.

I don't see him being an improvement on what we have...a glut of 2Cs with nobody that looks like a 1C. RNH also doesn't seem to have 1C upside anymore either.

same goes both ways... No one is bringing down Fleury just because he isnt a need in Edmonton. This is how pissing matches start.

I can claim that the Oilers may not want Fluery unless the price ridiculously low like a 4th rd pick .. He isnt proven blah blah .. Just let this die unless a pissing is the intention.

RNH has higher upside than any CAR C.

 

[Seachd]

Why would the Oilers trade Nugent-Hopkins for Hanifin, much less Fleury?

 

[AvroArrow]

would you take Fleury +2nd for Marner/Nylander?

No, but i definitely wouldn't take RNH for either of Marner/Matthews alone. He's really not as good as oiler fans think he is. Another case of over-rating your player just because he went 1st overall. We saw the proposals by oilers fans involving Hall, and we saw what they actually got in return. He's a good player but nowhere close to elite.

 

[Chan790]

same goes both ways... No one is bringing down Fleury just because he isnt a need in Edmonton. This is how pissing matches start.

I can claim that the Oilers may not want Fluery unless the price ridiculously low like a 4th rd pick .. He isnt proven blah blah .. Just let this die unless a pissing is the intention.

RNH has higher upside than any CAR C.

No, RNH definitely has more upside...I don't think he's the difference between competing and not competing though. We really have a lot of interchangeable parts upfront and a lack of top-line talent.

I agree Fleury doesn't seem to be what you need either. It's a conversation that is going nowhere...we don't have what the other would need to make a deal.

 

[Mr Positive]

seems like it would be like Carolina's Hall-Larsson trade, with RNH being the Larsson. Both players have less than impressive surface stats, but the more you dig the better they look.

I sympathize with Carolina here. They need a 1C and RNH isn't that. He's a project 1C. He's a very smart player who plays responsibly, not to pad his stats. I think it's inevitable that he will be a late bloomer like the Sedins were, but it's impossible to know for sure. Good luck getting an established 1C. It's something you can't count on, just like how Jersey would have laughed and hung up if we offered Hall for Larsson if he made that jump to 1D status.

 

[Roboturner913]

I like RNH, but I'm not giving up a d-man right now.

The only player I'd be willing to put on the table as a centerpiece is Elias Lindholm at this point - and I'd cringe while doing it because I think Lindholm is about to break out in a big way. Makes sense for Edm as they'd shed a big contract and get a younger/cheaper/more durable player while retaining the bulk of RNH's production. Makes sense for Carolina as they get a much-needed legit high-end player that won't look out of place on a 1st line. Bit of a gamble for both sides, but the risk is basically equal.

Honestly though I don't think Carolina is a particularly good trading partner on any front right now. Faulk, Staal and Skinner are too important to the team's on-ice success. Any trade for Hanifin has major backfire potential (keep in mind this is the franchise that traded away 20-year-old Chris Pronger). And young proven supporting cast type players like Slavin and Rask are far too valuable to a small-market small-budget team.

Now, a year from now, if Hanifin and Slavin continues progressing, they make Faulk expendable and the potential return from trading him is far too tempting to pass on (in theory).

 

[Roboturner913]

there you have it boys, Adam Larsson (best defensive d in the league) > Faulk, you learn something new every day on these boards.

It is apparent to me that the only logical way his formula makes any sense is that all Oiler players are automatically rewarded 50x percentage points as opposed to players from any other team.

Theres' that, and the fact that HSCA was only ever designed to account for a relatively miniscule percentage of scores that fall into the gap between GF% and CF% and applying it across the board is deliberately misleading.

Like I've said before, it's like watching 3 skinny people come out of a doughnut shop and assuming that doughnuts make one skinny...in the meantime you've totally ignored the 7 fat slobs coming out of the same doughnut shop.

 

[Draiskull]

No, but i definitely wouldn't take RNH for either of Marner/Matthews alone. He's really not as good as oiler fans think he is. Another case of over-rating your player just because he went 1st overall. We saw the proposals by oilers fans involving Hall, and we saw what they actually got in return. He's a good player but nowhere close to elite.

maybe hold off on Marner love til he actually crosses the 50pt mark in NHL.
RNH > Marner for atleast 2 more yrs and would be Oilers #1C if we hadnt lucked out on McDavid.

Also by your logic Marner wouldnt return **** because Hall >> Marner.

 

[Draiskull]

I like RNH, but I'm not giving up a d-man right now.

The only player I'd be willing to put on the table as a centerpiece is Elias Lindholm at this point - and I'd cringe while doing it because I think Lindholm is about to break out in a big way. Makes sense for Edm as they'd shed a big contract and get a younger/cheaper/more durable player while retaining the bulk of RNH's production. Makes sense for Carolina as they get a much-needed legit high-end player that won't look out of place on a 1st line. Bit of a gamble for both sides, but the risk is basically equal.

Honestly though I don't think Carolina is a particularly good trading partner on any front right now. Faulk, Staal and Skinner are too important to the team's on-ice success. Any trade for Hanifin has major backfire potential (keep in mind this is the franchise that traded away 20-year-old Chris Pronger). And young proven supporting cast type players like Slavin and Rask are far too valuable to a small-market small-budget team.

Now, a year from now, if Hanifin and Slavin continues progressing, they make Faulk expendable and the potential return from trading him is far too tempting to pass on (in theory).

it really doesnt make sense for Oilers no matter how you spin it. RNH is not a cap dump. By your logic CAR should trade Faulk for a younger cheaper worse Dman. Makes no sense since neither the Oilers nor the Canes are in cap trouble.

 

[AvroArrow]

maybe hold off on Marner love til he actually crosses the 50pt mark in NHL.
RNH > Marner for atleast 2 more yrs and would be Oilers #1C if we hadnt lucked out on McDavid.

Also by your logic Marner wouldnt return **** because Hall >> Marner.

Is 50 pts the new milestone for #1C s ? Just cause RNH would have played on your top line doesn't mean he's a #1C. We had Bozak as our top C for years. Just cause he played that position didn't mean he was a true 1C.

And no that's not my logic at all, don't try and put words in my mouth. My logic is oilers fans (or at least the vocal ones) heavily over-rate and over value their players picked #1 (excluding McDavid). Hall is a much better player than RNH and Larsson is a very good return. Not a ridiculously high return like so many asked but a good return.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

canes offer fleury+
oilers ask for faulk
thread it rightfully over.

This guy gets it. I'd sooner add to RNH and land Faulk than eat crap on Fleury + a pick as a return.

 

[Draiskull]

Is 50 pts the new milestone for #1C s ? Just cause RNH would have played on your top line doesn't mean he's a #1C. We had Bozak as our top C for years. Just cause he played that position didn't mean he was a true 1C.

And no that's not my logic at all, don't try and put words in my mouth. My logic is oilers fans (or at least the vocal ones) heavily over-rate and over value their players picked #1 (excluding McDavid). Hall is a much better player than RNH and Larsson is a very good return. Not a ridiculously high return like so many asked but a good return.

Every fan overrates players of its team. change the milestone to 40 or 60 pts if you want but the fact remains.. Marner has proven jack all and is you are overrating him by putting him in the same category as a potential franchise player like Matthews or a proven NHLer like RNH.

The RNH is worth Fluery + 2nd proposal was a joke and borderline flaming. Not a single CAR fan would think it would make sense for Oilers yet you (assuming you are the TML fan who proposed it) think it does..

 

[Chet Manley]

IMO RNH isn't as available as some posters/media think. The Oilers would be going into the season with 19-20 yr old centres with no plan b. Sink or swim, team's recipe for failure the last 8-10 years. It would take a very attractive deal to move him this summer, just like NJ required Hall to lose a player they were in no hurry to move.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

IMO RNH isn't as available as some posters/media think. The Oilers would be going into the season with 19-20 yr old centres with no plan b. Sink or swim, team's recipe for failure the last 8-10 years. It would take a very attractive deal to move him this summer, just like NJ required Hall to lose a player they were in no hurry to move.

Drai can play RW with solid results so there is no need to deal one of RNH or Drai. Center depth is never a bad thing.

 

[McSuper]

Not really an Edmonton fan, but the reason they want Hanifin is that he has higher upside than Fleury. He doesn't necessarily fill as large of a void but he's an upgrade for them on the left side regardless.

You seem to get it . Hanifin is not a need but with his up side I would take him and move a lessor D man out .

Not saying this would happen but something along the lines of

Hanifin for RNH

LHD for a 3rd line C or a RHD

Top pairing in a year or 2

Hanifin Larsson
Klefbom Sekera
Davidson Fayne /upgrade

Starts looking like a real good NHL D .

As I said it not likely to happen and if I am a Carolina fan I say no to trading any D at this time . You don't know if their young D will continue on their paths . We see it time and time again young D looking great then taking a major step back and never really recovering . keep them all once they no what they got deal away the excess D to balance out their team . It a better plan then they Oilers trying to deal forwards to fill out their D as we see by the Larsson trade .

 

[McSuper]

Drai can play RW with solid results so there is no need to deal one of RNH or Drai. Center depth is never a bad thing.

I agree and I really thing Chia values C and D over wingers . I don't see him moving a C unless it a deal a GM can't say no to . I actually can see him adding one more C and rolling with

Lucic McDavid Eberle
Pouliot RNH Draisaitl
Maroon New C Pulju

Unless as I say a deal too good to say no to or a can't miss top pairing prospect in offered . Hanifin ?

 

[flyersfan018]

RNH has been criminally underrated by many in this thread. Hilarious.

 

[AvroArrow]

Every fan overrates players of its team. change the milestone to 40 or 60 pts if you want but the fact remains.. Marner has proven jack all and is you are overrating him by putting him in the same category as a potential franchise player like Matthews or a proven NHLer like RNH.

The RNH is worth Fluery + 2nd proposal was a joke and borderline flaming. Not a single CAR fan would think it would make sense for Oilers yet you (assuming you are the TML fan who proposed it) think it does..

Self contradictory ? And i didn't put him in the same category as Matthews. I simply said i wouldn't trade either 1 of them straight up for RNH.

Also go read my OP. I never once said it made sense for the oilers, simply that the value is fair. As you mentioned you have other needs that need to be addressed, but the value is still there. You should stop, pause take a minute to read before you get all riled up and start arguing.

There are tons of proven NHLers. Matt Martin is a proven 4th liner. Just cause RNH is "proven" doesn't mean he's as good as you think he is. He's a proven 2C, nothing more and nothing less. Is that his ceiling ? Probably not, but given how his development has been going and the notorious culture related to prospects and development in Edmonton, it's a reasonable concern.

 

[Roboturner913]

it really doesnt make sense for Oilers no matter how you spin it. RNH is not a cap dump. By your logic CAR should trade Faulk for a younger cheaper worse Dman. Makes no sense since neither the Oilers nor the Canes are in cap trouble.

Nobody is saying RNH is a cap dump, but you're paying $6 million for a 50-point player, Carolina is paying $2.5 million for a 40-point player. Granted Lindholm is not the all-around two-way guy that RNH is, but he's not that far off.

And yes, if Carolina wanted to deal Faulk for another RHD who had 80% of the production at 42% of the price, I would take that deal and hope like hell you didn't change your mind before pen hit paper. That's not even a hard decision, that's just basic math.

 

[gwh]

When did Carolina stop being a cap floor team? Why they are trading 2 years of ELC D for 6 mil player with average production?

The premise of the trade is warped. Carolina probably wants to drop expensive players for ELC players, not the otherway around.

 

[GoldiFox]

When did Carolina stop being a cap floor team? Why they are trading 2 years of ELC D for 6 mil player with average production?

The premise of the trade is warped. Carolina probably wants to drop expensive players for ELC players, not the otherway around.

3 years of ELC on Fleury.

Canes are already at the floor. I hate to break it to you, but EVERY NHL team would prefer to drop expensive players for ELC players all things equal. Your blanket statement is meaningless. That's just Cap economics. Don't let that stop your transparent jabs though.