Value of: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins to Carolina

[Connor]

Oilers are keeping RNH.

 

[Roboturner913]

When did Carolina stop being a cap floor team? Why they are trading 2 years of ELC D for 6 mil player with average production?

The better question would be, when did Carolina start being a cap floor team. Answer would be, when they started to rebuild two seasons ago. Otherwise they have been closer to the ceiling to the floor since the salary cap was instituted, so let's discontinue this inaccurate narrative, please.

The premise of the trade is warped. Carolina probably wants to drop expensive players for ELC players, not the otherway around.

A. Carolina doesn't really have many expensive players to drop;
B. Not everybody on a roster can be dirt cheap, there's a thing called the cap floor which you mentioned earlier;
C. I don't feel I should have to explain this because common sense, but teams are generally willing to pay more to shore up areas of relative weakness than they are relative strengths.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

If there's a deal around Faulk and RNH, Edmonton better be adding a ton. Faulk is so underrated.

 

[Homesick]

Not Hanifin or Faulk. Oilers would have to add if they wanted one of those 2. Fleury + 2nd in 2017 is fair value imo, but don't really know what canes fans needs are.

would you take Fleury +2nd for Marner/Nylander?

No, but i definitely wouldn't take RNH for either of Marner/Matthews alone. He's really not as good as oiler fans think he is. Another case of over-rating your player just because he went 1st overall. We saw the proposals by oilers fans involving Hall, and we saw what they actually got in return. He's a good player but nowhere close to elite.

So Oiler fans overate their players because they don't think Fleury +2nd is fair value for Nugent-Hopkins who's been a consistent 50+ point NHL centre in all but two seasons(lockout year and last season when he broke his hand blocking a shot)? But you wouldn't trade unproven prospects for the same package

Don't worry; the Oilers would never offer RNH for Marner(Schremp2.0)

 

[Roboturner913]

FWIW, if I were an Oilers fan I wouldn't take Fleury + a 2nd for RNH either. I would ask for Slavin.

 

[Draiskull]

If there's a deal around Faulk and RNH, Edmonton better be adding a ton. Faulk is so underrated.

sadly there is no deal around RNH and Faulk..
And on these boards Faulk really isnt underrated. Everyone including the Oilers fans know that it would take an arm and a leg to pry him out of CAR.

 

[AvroArrow]

So Oiler fans overate their players because they don't think Fleury +2nd is fair value for Nugent-Hopkins who's been a consistent 50+ point NHL centre in all but two seasons(lockout year and last season when he broke his hand blocking a shot)? But you wouldn't trade unproven prospects for the same package

Don't worry; the Oilers would never offer RNH for Marner(Schremp2.0)

That would be more credible if he had more than 3 full and 2 half seasons under his belt. And 50 points a season isn't really that good.

And no some oiler fans over rate their players because they want a ridiculously unreasonable return for them. Mainly because once upon a time that guy was a #1 overall pick. He's a good 2nd line center, so no i wouldn't trade the top prospect in the world or another top 10 prospect for a "consistent 50 point center".

 

[gwh]

3 years of ELC on Fleury.

Canes are already at the floor. I hate to break it to you, but EVERY NHL team would prefer to drop expensive players for ELC players all things equal. Your blanket statement is meaningless. That's just Cap economics. Don't let that stop your transparent jabs though.

Blanket statement? This trade thread is delusional, it is like making water drain upwards.

Staying at floor needs annual effort. This year it was Teravainen (top6 player) + Bickell (salary) from Chicago.

Next we will have capdumps to Chicago thread?

 

[GoldiFox]

Blanket statement? This trade thread is delusional, it is like making water drain upwards.

Staying at floor needs annual effort. This year it was Teravainen (top6 player) + Bickell (salary) from Chicago.

Next we will have capdumps to Chicago thread?

Nothing in this thread is delusional except the OP, Edmonton fans trying to argue why Faulk for RNH is even remotely close, and you. As it has been stated, no Canes fan agrees with the OP's valuation.

The facts don't line up with what you are saying, the Canes are not a historically Cap Floor team. Not even close really. The actual data would tell you that the Canes are more likely to be a Cap ceiling team than a Cap floor team, data which I'm sure you did not check. The real facts are that the Canes have generally operated about $10 million over the Cap (ending with ~$6 million in Cap space).

They looked like a Cap Floor team at the end of last year because they moved out expensive vets (Eric Staal, Versteeg, and JM Liles totaling well over $10 million in Cap Space) at the TDL without taking much salary back.

14/15 Ending Cap Space = $6.4 million ($10 million over Floor)
13/14 Ending Cap Space = $4.5 million ($11.5 million over Floor)

So there you have it. Caught in a lie with the facts. Or just ignorant enough to believe you knew the answer when really you had no idea.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Nothing in this thread is delusional except the OP, Edmonton fans trying to argue why Faulk for RNH is even remotely close, and you. As it has been stated, no Canes fan agrees with the OP's valuation.

The facts don't line up with what you are saying, the Canes are not a historically Cap Floor team. Not even close really. The actual data would tell you that the Canes are more likely to be a Cap ceiling team than a Cap floor team, data which I'm sure you did not check. The real facts are that the Canes have generally operated about $10 million over the Cap (ending with ~$6 million in Cap space).

They looked like a Cap Floor team at the end of last year because they moved out expensive vets (Eric Staal, Versteeg, and JM Liles totaling well over $10 million in Cap Space) at the TDL without taking much salary back.

14/15 Ending Cap Space = $6.4 million ($10 million over Floor)
13/14 Ending Cap Space = $4.5 million ($11.5 million over Floor)

So there you have it. Caught in a lie with the facts. Or just ignorant enough to believe you knew the answer when really you had no idea.

It's not a lie, if you believe it.

 

[Roboturner913]

Blanket statement? This trade thread is delusional, it is like making water drain upwards.

Staying at floor needs annual effort. This year it was Teravainen (top6 player) + Bickell (salary) from Chicago.

Next we will have capdumps to Chicago thread?

I see you have ignored multiple replies with factual information to counter your false narrative. Since it's an "annual effort" please inform me of previous "annual efforts" for the Hurricanes to stay above the floor in previous seasons.

I'll be waiting on pins and needles for your proof.

 

[RodTheBawd]

It's not a lie, if you believe it.

Oh Georgie boy...

 

[McVespa99]

That's not opinion, that's fact.

In your opinion....

 

[vipernsx]

I disagree, look at their production just last year. I see Duby = RNH but RNH has the potential to have more scoring ability. As of now he's a 2C.

IMO, a #2 pivot should be a lock for 50+ points. Stepan, Pleks, ROR, Duch, Carter, Brassard, Koivu, etc. Dubi is a 40-50 guy who can shutdown top lines. IMO, that's a solid #3 pivot.

 

[Homesick]

That would be more credible if he had more than 3 full and 2 half seasons under his belt. And 50 points a season isn't really that good.

And no some oiler fans over rate their players because they want a ridiculously unreasonable return for them. Mainly because once upon a time that guy was a #1 overall pick. He's a good 2nd line center, so no i wouldn't trade the top prospect in the world or another top 10 prospect for a "consistent 50 point center".

He's only played 5 seasons
Who the hell is talking about Matthews? Do you know how many "top 10 prospects" never make an impact in the NHL? Or never acheive what RNH already has?
O'Sullivan, J.Johnson, Mueller, Barker, VanReimsdyk, Bogosian, Filatov, Hodgson, Moller, Bernier, Schenn, J.Markstrom, Paajarvi, and more have all been top 10 prospects at one time(sometimes a couple years in a row)
Marner=O'Sullivan
Nylander=Paajarvi

 

[AvroArrow]

He's only played 5 seasons
Who the hell is talking about Matthews? Do you know how many "top 10 prospects" never make an impact in the NHL? Or never acheive what RNH already has?
O'Sullivan, J.Johnson, Mueller, Barker, VanReimsdyk, Bogosian, Filatov, Hodgson, Moller, Bernier, Schenn, J.Markstrom, Paajarvi, and more have all been top 10 prospects at one time(sometimes a couple years in a row)
Marner=O'Sullivan
Nylander=Paajarvi

You = Milbury 2.0

 

[zar]

Nobody is saying RNH is a cap dump, but you're paying $6 million for a 50-point player, Carolina is paying $2.5 million for a 40-point player. Granted Lindholm is not the all-around two-way guy that RNH is, but he's not that far off.

And yes, if Carolina wanted to deal Faulk for another RHD who had 80% of the production at 42% of the price, I would take that deal and hope like hell you didn't change your mind before pen hit paper. That's not even a hard decision, that's just basic math.

RNH is a 50-56 point player... and Carolina is actually paying $6M for a sub 50 point center and another $6M for another 50-60 point center. RNH has more upside that both of those players.

Either way, the only players the Oilers should be interested in from the Canes is Faulk, and to a lesser extent Hannifin (because LHD). It sounds like neither of those players would be offered at market value, the Canes FANS asking for overpayment... and I understand why... but I don't see the Oilers offering the overpayment pieces (McDavid, Draisaitl, Klefbom+ or Larsson+), so no deal to be negotiated on these boards.

 

[1mjp]

Oilers are keeping RNH.

I agree. Oilers already made some big splashes this summer, they can sit on their other trade chips. Nobody is expecting this team to make the playoffs either. Let the current team gel for a few months and if need-be, find a deal on a player they know they need (not just what looks good on paper).

 

[Joe McGrath]

RNH is a 50-56 point player... and Carolina is actually paying $6M for a sub 50 point center and another $6M for another 50-60 point center. RNH has more upside that both of those players.

Either way, the only players the Oilers should be interested in from the Canes is Faulk, and to a lesser extent Hannifin (because LHD). It sounds like neither of those players would be offered at market value, the Canes FANS asking for overpayment... and I understand why... but I don't see the Oilers offering the overpayment pieces (McDavid, Draisaitl, Klefbom+ or Larsson+), so no deal to be negotiated on these boards.

I'm confused who these two centers the Canes are paying $6 million are? The only forwards they are paying that to are Staal and Skinner and only one of those two is a center.

 

[GoldiFox]

RNH is a 50-56 point player... and Carolina is actually paying $6M for a sub 50 point center and another $6M for another 50-60 point center. RNH has more upside that both of those players.

Either way, the only players the Oilers should be interested in from the Canes is Faulk, and to a lesser extent Hannifin (because LHD). It sounds like neither of those players would be offered at market value, the Canes FANS asking for overpayment... and I understand why... but I don't see the Oilers offering the overpayment pieces (McDavid, Draisaitl, Klefbom+ or Larsson+), so no deal to be negotiated on these boards.

You consider Draisatl to be an "overpayment piece" for Faulk or Hanifin?

There in lies the problem with EDM trade proposals. Edmonton has no piece close to the value of Faulk except McDavid (who obviously is worth considerably more than any asset in the NHL). Maybe in a couple seasons Drai or Puljujarvi will be close.

 

[RodTheBawd]

I really thought Oilers posters were getting their reality check with the Hall trade, I guess not.

 

[Canovin]

I really thought Oilers posters were getting their reality check with the Hall trade, I guess not.

And what would you add to Faulk if McDavid was on the table? Would love to see how much Canes fans value Faulk

 

[RodTheBawd]

And what would you add to Faulk if McDavid was on the table? Would love to see how much Canes fans value Faulk

A whole ****ing lot.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I really thought Oilers posters were getting their reality check with the Hall trade, I guess not.

Love the different arguements that we have to see about that trade.

On one hand, we have guys telling us that our GM is an idiot and that we lost that trade big time. On the other hand we have people telling us that Hall's value was only Larsson, so the rest of our players have no value. Which is it? Did we lose huge on value, or was it fair value and our players are next to worthless?

 

[Mr Positive]

And what would you add to Faulk if McDavid was on the table? Would love to see how much Canes fans value Faulk

of course they would throw in half their team to get him. That doesn't really prove much. They don't have a replacement for Faulk. I wouldn't blame them for not taking RNH at all. It would be a risky move, a lot more bold than Hall for Larsson.