Value of: Ryan Murray to the Leafs

[TaketheCannoli]

Murray will never get a fair return in trade strictly due to injury concerns. At best he'd return a good (not great) 2C. From Toronto I'd not be more comfortable giving up a Bozak and a 2nd/3rd. Strictly because he seems only capable of playing 50 ish games a year (yes he played 82 last year) If he put up more points (.5 PPG ish) i think he could command more too, but for a guy who isn't a high scoring D man who doesn't play full seasons the return won't be great for Columbus

The OP is a Leaf fan asking what it would take. It would take a young 1C or a young elite wing. Bozak+ or JVR doesn't get Murray. Columbus is more than fine keeping him. I don't actually think they are looking to move him at all.

 

[exporta]

RHD. We need a RHD.

No, right now we need reliable defensemen.

Rielly and Zaitsev are the only two I see a long term future with the Leafs. I do not see Gardiner in the light that others do.

So by that equation we need two more LHD and two more RHD. We may have candidates internally, but nothing is a sure bet.

 

[Halla]

I would think the only way Columbus gives up Murray is for a comparable age #1 C that fits their style or an elite winger also around Murray's age ( see Hall/Larsson).

yeah, i dont see that happening.
Lindholm could probably get this return, Murray cant

 

[Crede777]

yeah, i dont see that happening.
Lindholm could probably get this return, Murray cant

Then he isn't getting moved.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Didn't he get hurt again last night?

 

[mikeyp24]

I don't get the injury thing. He played all 82 games last year. The injury before he missed a game just because he took a blocked shot off of his ankle and needed a day. What happened last night was a random accident that anyone in that same position ends up with it has nothing to do with him. It's the same as saying RNH or McDavid can't stay healthy so they aren't worth much. He's a U-23 top pair D. In this topic as a TOR fan think to yourself if a team was offering you X package for Rielly would you accept. He has > or at worst = value to him.

 

[DrTucker]

That's not enough for Murray potential. When he is healthy he shows lots of signs of being a 1D.

When he's healthy that's the key, which he has an extremly hard time doing (through no fault of his own) but you don't pay the price for a potential 1D when he's healthy at best 50% of the time

 

[bobermay]

Beauty vision by Matthews and even better Snipe by Nylander!

Edit: ooopps wrong thread

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

ITT: people who know nothing about Murray

 

[Viqsi]

Murray will never get a fair return in trade strictly due to injury concerns.

If that's how you feel you can just stop right there, rather than going on to come up with a ludicrously insulting offer for a player we have no interest in trading anyways. We're not interested in attempts at trade negging.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Huh. Well. I guess that makes it equally doubtful that he's ever traded, then. Golly gosh darn.

Agreed. He's cheap and good.

Don't see him getting moved at all.

 

[major major]

JVR?

Let me check the Jackets LW depth

Saad
Foligno
Hartnell
Jenner
etc...

Okay realistically, enough of these guys can play RW if needed. The real reason JVR is a non-starter is because it's a lot easier to find a 25G wing than to find a D like Murray.

Don't the Leafs already have Rielly and Gardiner as left hand shot dmen? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to go after a RHD?

No worries, Murray slides Rielly and Gardiner down the lineup.

With the Jackets already having Werenski and JJ, it's not hard to imagine other teams valuing Murray enough to make a deal palatable. But the Jackets just don't need more players. They need elite players, and players with #1C upside. (Not Kadri, Not JVR, etc..)

 

[major major]

not saying that Murray isn't valuable, but I wouldn't use that deal as the benchmark - the whole hockey world thought it was a completely one-sided deal and very unlikely that it sets a precedent

There's only one other deal with comparable players (top F for D). Johansen and Jones. Something tells me GM's were less surprised by the Hall for Larsson swap than the media/fans were.

If it was as easy as you think it is to get a young D of that ilk, I'd think we'd see one of them traded for less than a 70 pt forward.

 

[major major]

When he's healthy that's the key, which he has an extremly hard time doing (through no fault of his own) but you don't pay the price for a potential 1D when he's healthy at best 50% of the time

This is how threads go when people spout off based on "**** they heard".

Ryan Murray has played in 84 of his last 86 games.

 

[Byrral]

This is how threads go when people spout off based on "**** they heard".

Ryan Murray has played in 84 of his last 86 games.

Because that's the "**** they heard" from our own fans.

We can't trade Savard. We have no replacement and Murray is always hurt. We can't trade any good defensemen. Also, I have no interest in RNH.

 

[Viqsi]

Because that's the "**** they heard" from our own fans.

Yeah, but that's cherrypicking one fan's opinion.

 

[D3ADLY]

Jackets fans please give us a name at least in who may interest you. JvR+Prospect/pick wont cut it for your guys than who/what will? saying young 1C doesn't tell us much realistically. I really would like to hear names so the conversation can be made.

 

[Crede777]

Jackets fans please give us a name at least in who may interest you. JvR+Prospect/pick wont cut it for your guys than who/what will? saying young 1C doesn't tell us much realistically. I really would like to hear names so the conversation can be made.

If it isn't a 1C, then it's not a name we are interested in and there's no conversation to be made.

 

[D3ADLY]

If it isn't a 1C, then it's not a name we are interested in and there's no conversation to be made.

1C? so your saying Matthews for Murray? or a 2C like Kadri with potential to be 1C. I think Murray is a top 3D in most teams in the NHL and i think even in your team he is a 3D with potential to be the top pairing. but what/who is 1C in your vision in Murray case?

 

[Randy Randerson]

Well then there is no reason to trade him. Young top pair blue liners are very hard to get. Ask yourself what does Toronto want for Reilly?

As someone else posted, why not keep them all?

There would come a point where there isn't enough ice time to make them all worth keeping and another position would be more valuable.

The leafs obviously aren't dealing Rielly but defense isn't a deep position for us at the top end. The more apt leafs analogy would be if Matthews, Nylander and Marner all turn out would we keep them all if we needed help elsewhere - and in that case there are 12 forward positions to 6 defense positions, so having 3 elite ones is only 1/4 of the forward pool vs. 1/2 the defense pool. If the leafs had 3 guys of Rielly's ilk and needs at forward, yes I would definitely expect them to deal from strength to fill those holes

I'm not sure that having 3 top pairing defenders is beyond the point of diminishing returns but it would be getting close unless your bottom pairing is playing really limited minutes. At some point in the not-so-distant future it would probably also mean committing $20ish million to 3 defensemen so CBJ would have to be weary of the cap/internal budget considerations too - and that doesn't consider Savard or Johnson in the equation either

having a great D to build around is ideal, but at some point the assets will be better spent balancing out the lineup

 

[Randy Randerson]

There's only one other deal with comparable players (top F for D). Johansen and Jones. Something tells me GM's were less surprised by the Hall for Larsson swap than the media/fans were.

If it was as easy as you think it is to get a young D of that ilk, I'd think we'd see one of them traded for less than a 70 pt forward.

Not saying its easy to acquire one, just saying that expecting a top 10 scorer for a #3 dman with upside is probably not where the market is going to lie. There was nothing but disapproval for that deal anywhere you looked, so regardless of what you believe the sentiment was among GM's, its pretty easy to support that it wasn't viewed as good value for EDM

Jones>Murray IMO, so I don't think you're getting a Johansen back, maybe the next tier down of similar age scoring forward

If it's a 70pt forward you're after, I could see an Okposo type but I don't think that's value for CBJ

 

[Sarcastic]

Okay then Columbus can deal with this issue in like 3 years or something. At that point they may have another stud on an ELC anyway to replace one person. Plus you're acting as if teams don't shorten their benches, 4 guys is enough to play.

 

[Viqsi]

1C? so your saying Matthews for Murray? or a 2C like Kadri with potential to be 1C. I think Murray is a top 3D in most teams in the NHL and i think even in your team he is a 3D with potential to be the top pairing. but what/who is 1C in your vision in Murray case?

When we say "#1C", we mean "#1C". Not "#2C that some folks inexplicably still hope will be a #1C someday", we mean "#1C."

* * *​

There would come a point where there isn't enough ice time to make them all worth keeping and another position would be more valuable.

The leafs obviously aren't dealing Rielly but defense isn't a deep position for us at the top end. The more apt leafs analogy would be if Matthews, Nylander and Marner all turn out would we keep them all if we needed help elsewhere - and in that case there are 12 forward positions to 6 defense positions, so having 3 elite ones is only 1/4 of the forward pool vs. 1/2 the defense pool. If the leafs had 3 guys of Rielly's ilk and needs at forward, yes I would definitely expect them to deal from strength to fill those holes

I'm not sure that having 3 top pairing defenders is beyond the point of diminishing returns but it would be getting close unless your bottom pairing is playing really limited minutes. At some point in the not-so-distant future it would probably also mean committing $20ish million to 3 defensemen so CBJ would have to be weary of the cap/internal budget considerations too - and that doesn't consider Savard or Johnson in the equation either

having a great D to build around is ideal, but at some point the assets will be better spent balancing out the lineup

Okay, you've convinced me. Send us Matthews or Nylander.

I mean, it's not worth keeping them all, right? Surely that also applies to the Leafs.

 

[Randy Randerson]

When we say "#1C", we mean "#1C". Not "#2C that some folks inexplicably still hope will be a #1C someday", we mean "#1C."

* * *​

Okay, you've convinced me. Send us Matthews or Nylander.

I mean, it's not worth keeping them all, right? Surely that also applies to the Leafs.

When and if they all turn out and we have 1/2 our forward corps trending towards being elite level players, absolutely I would deal for a top pair RHD.

Yes it does apply to the leafs as well - not sure why you're so sensitive about anyone suggesting that CBJ has a lot of talent in one position

 

[D3ADLY]

When we say "#1C", we mean "#1C". Not "#2C that some folks inexplicably still hope will be a #1C someday", we mean "#1C."

* * *​

Okay, you've convinced me. Send us Matthews or Nylander.

I mean, it's not worth keeping them all, right? Surely that also applies to the Leafs.

Sure ill give you Matthews for Murray + 4 1st. We can play this game too your evaluation is way off and i thought our fans(leafs) over value their players. At most i would do JvR+Kapanen for Murray+2/3 pick. Or you did ask for 1C and Bozak is our 1C currently so i would package him Kapanen for Murray hows that?