Value of: Ryan Murray to the Leafs

[sxvnert]

I would assume hes part of that untouchable D core.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Well for that you will have to give up Zach Werenski or Jones. It would be a fair trade in my opinion and covers the bases for both side. Most will disagree with this but to acquire a player like Nylander or Marner you need to serve up a guy like Zach or Seth +/- from either side. But for Murray.. Kadri is the best C you will receive thats no knock on Kadri or Murray but thats what both are valued at in my opinion. I still think that JvR plus Kapanen should be more than enough for Murray and a pick.

That's fine. Nice conversation. Although this all had been said, but anyway, thanks.

 

[Viqsi]

Apparently I misunderstood the poster I was replying to, he meant that the leafs should target Trouba instead of Murray, which I agree is more in line with our needs

Fair enough.

Though, I would be surprised if the feelers aren't constantly out there on the players that you're targeting and from other teams on who you're willing to part with. Whenever you hear GM's talk about the process in any sport, they always talk about constantly kicking tires. Not saying that you're actively shopping Murray for the sake of getting rid of him, but if Jarmo is willing to part with him for the right piece(s), I would be surprised if the holders of those pieces weren't aware that Murray is available

Probably, but that's not going to have a lot of impact on the required return regardless. That turns it into "hey y'all, some folks have been asking, so just so it can be generally known - if you guys happen to be interested in guy X, we require Y. if that sounds doable, let's talk".

* * *​

also acceptable... Stamkos

Tavares as well, but I wanted to go with the CBJ example.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Probably, but that's not going to have a lot of impact on the required return regardless. That turns it into "hey y'all, some folks have been asking, so just so it can be generally known - if you guys happen to be interested in guy X, we require Y. if that sounds doable, let's talk".

There's no pressure on Columbus to trade him (cap, from the player, ownership, etc) so I'm not suggesting that it would be a discount deal, just that CBJ has a lot of high end defensemen and maybe too many to get maximum value out of each with playing time/PP time limitations. So I think it's a short list of guys who you would target, or if someone comes to you with a package that you can't say no to then Murray could be available

 

[NiL8r87]

No. Stop. You are not hearing me here.

We are not asking for Nylander. You are asking for Ryan Murray and we are telling you what we require in return.

When you find yourself disagreeing, the response is not "If you want Nylander you give us...". The response is "I guess Ryan Murray is too expensive. Oh well. I will now shop elsewhere."



You are wrong, because we set the price for Ryan Murray, because he is our asset, and we do not agree with those prices.

Ryan Murray is a top pairing defenseman. We will only accept a #1C back because that is the only return that justifies losing him. You can accept that or you can move on. You have no standing for debating or disagreeing with it.

We took this same kind of crap when a handful of desperate Oil fans decided to press us on trading them Ryan Johansen for Ales Hemsky and other assets for three straight years, okay? We turned "The price for Ryan Johansen is Jordan Eberle" into a HF meme for a little while as part of that. If you persist in insisting that this is equal value, then you are not going to get the answer you want.

It's a hypothetical trade thread. *****ing relax...

Anyway, I don't see Murray as a huge need, being as he's a LHD. I wouldn't make an offer on him.

 

[Halla]

Marner or Nylander. That's it. Let's have some conversation.

thats easy

CLB: we want marner or nylander
TOR: beep,beep,beep

Nylanders value has gone through the roof. the kid is currently 2nd in NHL scoring (as a rookie), and has been the leafs best player hands down. Marner has ok numbers for a rookie, but has been snake bitten a bit and should have double what he has now. the kid has magic hands. honestly it would take a jones type for the leafs to consider moving him, i doubt they even do werenski after drafting marner over him 15 months ago

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

thats easy

CLB: we want marner or nylander
TOR: beep,beep,beep

Nylanders value has gone through the roof. the kid is currently 2nd in NHL scoring (as a rookie), and has been the leafs best player hands down. Marner has ok numbers for a rookie, but has been snake bitten a bit and should have double what he has now. the kid has magic hands. honestly it would take a jones type for the leafs to consider moving him, i doubt they even do werenski after drafting marner over him 15 months ago

Is what I expected and was already told in polite language. We were asked, what would you be looking for for Murray. We answered. It's a pretty simple exercise.

 

[The Assclown]

It's a hypothetical trade thread. *****ing relax...

Very aggressive.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

It's a hypothetical trade thread. *****ing relax...

I hate this response. Everyone knows it's hypothetical, but nobody is going to say "sure that sounds great!" just because this doesn't affect the real world. If a Leafs fan offered Rielly straight for Tavares, as an Islander fan should I say, "sure! It's all hypothetical anyway!"?

Viqsi is saying to stop turning the tables from "we're not trading Murray unless we get Marner/Nylander" to "well if you want Marner/Nylander you'd have to give up this". Viqsi is saying they were never asking for Marner/Nylander, so why make it seem like that's what's happening?

 

[The Assclown]

I hate this response. Everyone knows it's hypothetical, but nobody is going to say "sure that sounds great!" just because this doesn't affect the real world. If a Leafs fan offered Rielly straight for Tavares, as an Islander fan should I say, "sure! It's all hypothetical anyway!"?

Viqsi is saying to stop turning the tables from "we're not trading Murray unless we get Marner/Nylander" to "well if you want Marner/Nylander you'd have to give up this". Viqsi is saying they were never asking for Marner/Nylander, so why make it seem like that's what's happening?

It's how Viqsi responded more-so than the content of his or her message. It was rude and very dramatic.

 

[JKinCLE]

​

It's how Viqsi responded more-so than the content of his or her message. It was rude and very dramatic.

They always are...

 

[Sniper99]

Marner or Nylander. That's it. Let's have some conversation.

No thanks, not for Murray.

 

[Dr Quincy]

The movie Moneyball is a great example of star players being nice but not nessasary. If you have the right guys for the right system anything can happen. Seth Jones and Werenski will be house hold hockey names soon enough.

My response has nothing to do with Murray or Toronto or JVR or anything like that, but just to the part I quoted:

You do realize that the "Moneyball" team in the movie didn't actually win anything? If your model of a great example of the kind of team you want, fails to achieve, then why in the world would you want to make it your model?

 

[Viqsi]

It's how Viqsi responded more-so than the content of his or her message. It was rude and very dramatic.

If you look carefully, you might notice that that only happened after an extended exchange - with that poster having previously skipped over several prior posts in which it was made clear that there was a set price and it wasn't going to budge. Polite was tried. Several times. Then I snapped a little early once (at two posters), and one of them reacted reasonably and that was awesome and I'm thankful for such. The other, however, kept repeatedly going back to "how dare you quote a price I don't agree with" without regard to explanations as to the reason for that price, and trying to throw the "no, this is what YOU have to pay" ball back in our court when Jackets fans in general weren't interested in that to begin with.

When one persistently refuses to hear the answer "no", sometimes that's going to annoy people and get one's head snapped off in the process. I'm as human in that regard as anyone else.

 

[Sarcastic]

Get a grip Viqsi, you should be delighted that the Leafs are happy to hear out your proposal.Murray isn't a good player anyway so clearly Marner and Nylander are off the table. We'll give you a 2nd and Leivo for him, that's a fair deal for a guy who is always injured and might not turn out. Leivo looks great and can be a superstar while you can also draft a good player with the 2nd.

This is a fair deal, take it or leave it.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

No thanks, not for Murray.

You're welcome. Nice chat.

 

[Viqsi]

Get a grip Viqsi, you should be delighted that the Leafs are happy to hear out your proposal.Murray isn't a good player anyway so clearly Marner and Nylander are off the table. We'll give you a 2nd and Leivo for him, that's a fair deal for a guy who is always injured and might not turn out. Leivo looks great and can be a superstar while you can also draft a good player with the 2nd.

This is a fair deal, take it or leave it.

 

[mikeyp24]

My response has nothing to do with Murray or Toronto or JVR or anything like that, but just to the part I quoted:

You do realize that the "Moneyball" team in the movie didn't actually win anything? If your model of a great example of the kind of team you want, fails to achieve, then why in the world would you want to make it your model?

I think you missed the end of the movie where the Red Sox offered Bean the GM spot and after he turned it down they took another guy who implemented the same strategy and that guy then moved onto the Cubs and yet again doing the same thing.

Also I have followed baseball longer then hockey and I watched those As teams closely because I was a fan of many of there guys especially the trio of Hudson moulder and Zito and swisher in the outfield. They constantly won and made it to the playoffs in a sport where only 2 teams per league make the playoffs and if you don't win your division you have to be the best team in the league that didn't win the division. They ran Into some great teams those years and didn't win but not because they weren't good teams. It just wasn't their time. Look at the Miami Heat in basketball... they were clearly the best team the 4 years lebron was there but didn't win it all. A non superstar spurs team beat them because of a system and role guys that were played and brought in for specific parts. Guys for pure D, guys for only 3 point shooting, ect.

It's proven that you don't need teams loaded with stars just a bunch of guys that buy into what they are doing.

 

[D3ADLY]

Viqsi is like a grumpy grandma. All i have to say is I stand by my evaluation on Murray and grumpy granma will explode loll. Our guys that were offered in this thread are actually worth more than Oft injured Murray but i shouldve just been like any other poster and offered them a bozak and a pick or something. Cause reality is the response from the ignorance would be the same. Thanks for rejecting JvR and Kap my mistake and apologies to Leafnation that i offered so much quality at once. Have a nice day

 

[mikeyp24]

Viqsi is like a grumpy grandma. All i have to say is I stand by my evaluation on Murray and grumpy granma will explode loll. Our guys that were offered in this thread are actually worth more than Oft injured Murray but i shouldve just been like any other poster and offered them a bozak and a pick or something. Cause reality is the response from the ignorance would be the same. Thanks for rejecting JvR and Kap my mistake and apologies to Leafnation that i offered so much quality at once. Have a nice day

Can't tell if troll or real life?? There can't be an actual person with a unbiased opinion that thinks JVR and Kapanen get you Murray when looking at actual needs and actual proven Talent. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume troll because issues with your "grandma" and that you understand actual value of Murray is closer to Nylander then JVR. Kap has beyond 0 value to us so there is no reason to even mention him. We have higher caliber prospects on the wing we are waiting to bring up there is no reason to take on young guy who would be behond.our young guys on one of the youngest teams in the league.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

Viqsi is like a grumpy grandma. All i have to say is I stand by my evaluation on Murray and grumpy granma will explode loll. Our guys that were offered in this thread are actually worth more than Oft injured Murray but i shouldve just been like any other poster and offered them a bozak and a pick or something. Cause reality is the response from the ignorance would be the same. Thanks for rejecting JvR and Kap my mistake and apologies to Leafnation that i offered so much quality at once. Have a nice day

Wow what a rude response.

If you had Murray, would you trade him for JVR and Kapanen? If you would, I'm glad you're not a GM in the NHL. Unless you're Jim Benning, which wouldn't surprise me.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

Viqsi is like a grumpy grandma. All i have to say is I stand by my evaluation on Murray and grumpy granma will explode loll. Our guys that were offered in this thread are actually worth more than Oft injured Murray but i shouldve just been like any other poster and offered them a bozak and a pick or something. Cause reality is the response from the ignorance would be the same. Thanks for rejecting JvR and Kap my mistake and apologies to Leafnation that i offered so much quality at once. Have a nice day

For JVR Columbus is willing to offer Prout + Kukan. Together they would give the leafs a gritty defensive blue - liner and a puck mover with top 4 upside.

If you really want Werenski then you will have to give Mathews up. Werenski is a 19 yo ppg blueliner!

 

[Crede777]

Wow what a rude response.

If you had Murray, would you trade him for JVR and Kapanen? If you would, I'm glad you're not a GM in the NHL. Unless you're Jim Benning, which wouldn't surprise me.

I mean, what Leafs fans evaluate Murray's value at is irrelevant as far as the thread is concerned.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

It's how Viqsi responded more-so than the content of his or her message. It was rude and very dramatic.

It's a response to years and years of the same sort of interactions, sometimes with the same posters. We all deal with it in our own way, but owning the frame of the conversation is a legitimate response, IMO.

 

[D3ADLY]

Wow what a rude response.

If you had Murray, would you trade him for JVR and Kapanen? If you would, I'm glad you're not a GM in the NHL. Unless you're Jim Benning, which wouldn't surprise me.

If i had 2 better D and needed help scoring i would def. consider it or probably counter with Kadri and Kap if thats what the need is at the time. but to evaluate Murray like Zach and or Jones is kind of absurd. As far as the GM comment go and troll comment from another poster there is only 1 thing to describe that and i will spell it out for you SAWFT.. sorry SOFT. Enjoy Murray let us enjoy our players until a suited trade is available. Thank you.

A lot of leaf posters have reminded me we are not in win now mode so we can afford to stay the course and have a losing season just so players can get experience so again my apologies to Leafnation for thinking otherwise.