RW Rocco Grimaldi (2011, 33rd overall, Florida)

[Rhaego]

Top 3? Which of Huberdeau, RNH or Landeskog do you see him displacing?

Huberdeau

 

[R S]

Top 3? Which of Huberdeau, RNH or Landeskog do you see him displacing?

Probably Huberdeau.

 

[tiger_80]

It's like asking if Chara would still be the same player if he was 6.2 ft, 215 lbs? For all we know, Jason Alison would be as good as Crosby if he could skate like an actual NHLer. Silly question really.

Who knows how being 4 inches taller and 30 lbs heavier would affect his game. Would the added size and strength help him in some areas of the game? For sure. But it is also likely he would lose some of his shiftiness and elusiveness too.

 

[Falkrik]

wow is grimaldi really that good?

 

[Schennanigans]

Being small is about as important as any hockey skill, so being that small will make a big difference. For some teams being small is the worst negative to have. You cant ever change your height, but some skills that your lacking can be improved. So this is a major con to a players value.

 

[Bank Shot]

If he is so amazing, why wasn't he a high pick despite his size like Sergei Samsonov?

 

[NiKrejci]

If he is so amazing, why wasn't he a high pick despite his size like Sergei Samsonov?

Sergei is 5'8". That being said idk much about Grimaldi but samsonov was crazy skilled before the injuries slowed him down.

 

[Epictetus]

Damn i'm like the same height as him

 

[Isles Junkie]

They talked about that briefly on the hockeyfutures Draft Preview forwards video. http://hockeysfuture.craveonline.co.../2011-nhl-draft-draft-preview-forwards-314295

IIRC they said he'd contend for 1st overall.

 

[William H Bonney]

If he is so amazing, why wasn't he a high pick despite his size like Sergei Samsonov?

If Brendan Morrow is so good, why wasn't he a high pick like Daniel Tkaczuk in the same draft?

 

[Bank Shot]

If Brendan Morrow is so good, why wasn't he a high pick like Daniel Tkaczuk in the same draft?

Probably because it wasn't obvious at the time.

According to some posters here, it is obvious right now that Grimaldi has first overall talent but the scouts are just looking the other way only because of size. I think the pick of Samsonov at 8th shows that if a player is indeed, obviously, unbelievably talented then they will go high in the draft regardless of size.

Perhaps he's a top five talent in the same way Schremp and Schroeder were.

 

[William H Bonney]

Probably because it wasn't obvious at the time.

According to some posters here, it is obvious right now that Grimaldi has first overall talent but the scouts are just looking the other way only because of size. I think the pick of Samsonov at 8th shows that if a player is indeed, obviously, unbelievably talented then they will go high in the draft regardless of size.

Perhaps he's a top five talent in the same way Schremp and Schroeder were.

Because even Samsonov had 2 inches and 20 pounds on him? Guys that size are a huge risk. Even though I'm confident as possible in Grimaldi's eventual transition to the NHL, it's still an investment for these NHL teams and one they're afraid to mess up. If you invest a high pick in a 5'6 guy and he doesn't make your Top 6 then he probably doesn't crack the NHL. GMs/Scouts are afraid to swing and miss completely that high.

"And I would compare him to Marty," said Darryl Plandowski, Tampa Bay's head amateur scout. "He's a special guy."

“I don’t know why (he was still available), but I’m happy he was there,” Florida general manager Dale Tallon said. “I love him. Every tournament I saw him in Europe, he was the most dynamic player in every one of those tournaments. It was unbelievable how good he was. People were excited to see him play. We’re in the entertainment business, too. I like watching good players play. He gives it all every shift. He’s got skill, speed and he’s got tremendous competition.”

"When we asked him if he was 5-foot-7, he said, 'No, I'm only 5-foot-6' and we all laughed because he's not afraid of his size," one veteran Eastern Conference amateur scout, who interviewed Grimaldi at the Combine, told NHL.com. "He's very honest and focused, and at that size, if you're not focused you won't be able to play this game."

Your Samsonov comparison doesn't really hold water though. Brian Gionta was unbelievably talented at that age. So was Michael Cammalleri. And Marty St. Louis. Where they drafted as high as Samsonov? Or even Grimaldi? It goes both ways.

Even when Grimaldi faces an obstacle he can't overcome, he finds the silver lining in the cloud. When told by a reporter that a scout said he'd have been the No. 1 overall pick if he'd been six inches taller, Grimaldi said, " At least it's something I can't control. I mean, if it were something like, 'He needs to be faster,' or 'He's too heavy and needs to drop some weight,' I could control that. So I think that's a good thing."

http://www.foxsportsnorth.com/06/25.../landing_wild.html?blockID=535090&feedID=3793

I guess you'll just have to see him play to see what everyone else that's seen him play has seen.

 

[Bathcat]

Is he actually 5'6" or is he 5'6" like St. Louis is 5'9"?

 

[ManOnTheMoon]

Seems to have the right attitude for a person with his size. I would think he'd need to develop a bit of a mean streak, I don't care how optimistic you are, at 5'6 you're going to be a target out there. If he's really that skilled, all the best to him, but he's definitely at a disadvantage.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

I tend to think he would have been a mid to late first round pick.

Unless you are telling me that in addition to being 4 inches taller, his numbers were also going to be a whole lot better

I know people like to compare him to Patrick Kane, but in Kane's draft year he put up 145 in 58 games in the OHL.

When Kane was 16 he put up 34 point in 15 games for the US U-18 program according to hockey db stats, by a wide margin he was by far the best player (like twice as good as everyone else) on a team that

At 16 Grimaldi put up 22 points in 30 games for the US U-18 program. At 17 Grimaldi put up 25 points in 22 games. Good, but no where close to the type of player Kane was.

IF he were 5'10, then maybe he would compare somewhat favorably to Sven Bartschi, who went 13th overall; although I would argue that Bartschi was a More productive player in a better league

 

[William H Bonney]

I tend to think he would have been a mid to late first round pick.

Unless you are telling me that in addition to being 4 inches taller, his numbers were also going to be a whole lot better

I know people like to compare him to Patrick Kane, but in Kane's draft year he put up 145 in 58 games in the OHL.

When Kane was 16 he put up 34 point in 15 games for the US U-18 program according to hockey db stats, by a wide margin he was by far the best player (like twice as good as everyone else) on a team that

At 16 Grimaldi put up 22 points in 30 games for the US U-18 program. At 17 Grimaldi put up 25 points in 22 games. Good, but no where close to the type of player Kane was.

IF he were 5'10, then maybe he would compare somewhat favorably to Sven Bartschi, who went 13th overall; although I would argue that Bartschi was a More productive player in a better league

Kane played with better talent on his NTDP team in a much weaker league - the NAHL. See my previous post addressing this:

First thing to remember is that putting up a point per game with the NTDP team is different than putting up a point per game in the USHL with another team. The NTDP team is the youngest in the league. Age, inexperience, physical and mental immaturity are huge factors working against them on most nights. The majority of the NTDP team(s) didn't even dominate the NAHL for those same reasons. The sledding is even tougher for them obviously in a much superior league. Second thing to remember is that Grimaldi's NTDP team isn't one of the better offensive teams the NTDP has had. Offensively, they're basically a one line team with Rocco, J.T. Miller, and Reid Boucher and Rocco is the straw that stirs that drink.

For more perspective, just look at where Rocco is in NTDP History for scoring. He's currently 8th in career goals, 2nd in career assists, and 5th in career points. The only players ahead of him in career points are 1) Phil Kessel (180); 2) Patrick Kane (172); 3) Andy Hilbert (153); 4) Jeremy Morin (139); and then 5) Rocco Grimaldi (135).

Even with that, you have to remember that during Kessel, Kane, and Morin's NTDP runs they played in the NAHL both seasons and not the USHL like Rocco. Hilbert's first season was also in the NAHL as well but his second season was in the USHL (NTDP last played full seasons in the USHL during the 98-99 and 99-00 seasons. They just rejoined the USHL last season). When Hilbert played with the NTDP they also used to play a lot more games and the USHL was a much weaker league back then. Now not only were all 4 of those players playing in weaker leagues, but in the case of Kessel, Kane, and Morin you also need to look at who they played with. Kessel played with the following: Peter Mueller (also Top 10 in NTDP goals, assists, and scoring), Jack Johnson (#3 in all-time NTDP d-man scoring), Erik Johnson (#4 in all-time NTDP d-man scoring) Nathan Gerbe, Jack Skille, Ryan Stoa, etc. Kane played with following: Blake Geoffrion, Bill Sweatt, Erik Johnson, Jamie McBain, Jim O'Brien, and Rhett Rakhshani. Morin played with the following: Drew Shore, Jerry D'Amigo, Ryan Bourque, Jordan Schroeder, Kyle Palmieri, Cam Fowler (#10 all-time NTDP d-man scoring), David Warsofsky, Danny Kristo, etc. Andy Hilbert also played with the #10 all-time NTDP player in career points in Connor Dunlop.

With that for some perspective, you also just have to see Rocco play to see what the hype is about. If he were 5'10, he'd be in the running for the #1 pick in the draft. He's an elite skater. Very fast. Very shifty. He has a great shot. He has very, very slick hands. Very good vision. He's very good on face-offs. He plays both ends of the ice. And most importantly, given his size, is that he's a pit bull. He's small but he's compact and tenacious. He doesn't back down at all. He's not afraid to throw his "weight" around, go in the corners, in front of the net, traffic areas, etc. He not only goes to those areas but he excels in them and isn't pushed around and he'll challenge anyone in the process. He's also probably the most driven player I've ever followed. His only drawback is his size.

That said, he's not going Top 10 because he is that small. Even in the new NHL it's a risk and one I don't think teams will be willing to make that high. But he should, and I think he will, go in the 1st Round. This draft doesn't have a lot of "guarantees" and a lot of the players have some glaring warts. A guy like Rocco is worth the pick in the 1st round.

 

[JackHughes86]

you never know he can still grow

 

[Sevanston]

More than one scout I heard from said that he would've easily been #1 overall if he was even 5'11"

 

[Hockify]

Is he actually 5'6" or is he 5'6" like St. Louis is 5'9"?

That's just what I was wondering. There have been successful guys in the NHL that size (some very siccessful) but they usually lie and give themselves a few inches. If he is saying he is 5'6" does that mean he is 5'4" or is her really 5'6"?

 

[Ward Cornell]

Probably Huberdeau.

The fact of the matter is we could use this same scenerio for numerous players....
IE: If Ryan Murphy was 6-4" 230lbs and with the same skill set and skating ability he probably would have been No.1.

 

[Dread Clawz]

you never know he can still grow

Yep, that's what I'm hoping. I grew a couple inches after I graduated high school. It's definitely common.

That's just what I was wondering. There have been successful guys in the NHL that size (some very siccessful) but they usually lie and give themselves a few inches. If he is saying he is 5'6" does that mean he is 5'4" or is her really 5'6"?

He's very small but there's no way he's 5'4". He looks around 5'6". Plus they took all their measurements at the combine.

BTW, St. Louis wishes he was 5'9" lol. Then he could get onto the rollercoasters.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

you never know he can still grow

But, if he did gain 2-3 inches, wouldn't that change his game?

Sometimes those little waterbugs have an advantage because they can scoot around big slow guys and literally skate under their reach. Also, being so close to the ground and being a stocky build often makes the little guys hard to knock off their skates.

 

[Heaters not lazt*]

If he is so amazing, why wasn't he a high pick despite his size like Sergei Samsonov?

Pre-injury Samsonov had some of the best hands and wheels I've ever seen. He could stick handle at full speed like it was absolutely nothing.

 

[VAiN*]

If the queen had balls she'd be the king.

 

[ARS]

If he had the same skillset and was that tall, probably would've bumped him up to the early 20's at the very least, if not the top 15, this kid is extremely talented. Although, I don't think his size was the only thing scaring some teams away, and I'll leave it at that(since I don't want to be hit with the ban stick).