RW Rocco Grimaldi (2011, 33rd overall, Florida)

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RandR

Registered User
May 15, 2011
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It's like asking if Chara would still be the same player if he was 6.2 ft, 215 lbs? For all we know, Jason Alison would be as good as Crosby if he could skate like an actual NHLer. Silly question really.

Who knows how being 4 inches taller and 30 lbs heavier would affect his game. Would the added size and strength help him in some areas of the game? For sure. But it is also likely he would lose some of his shiftiness and elusiveness too.
It would also affect his character/personality. Being a little guy trying to make it in a physical sport affects how not only how you have to play but also who you are in at least that environment.

It can be fun to speculate, but I think hypothetical questions such as this one are silly because you can't just add 4-6 inches to a young hockey player without changing what kind of player he is and probably even what kind of person he is.
 

Dread Clawz

LAWSonic Boom
Nov 25, 2006
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But, if he did gain 2-3 inches, wouldn't that change his game?

Sometimes those little waterbugs have an advantage because they can scoot around big slow guys and literally skate under their reach. Also, being so close to the ground and being a stocky build often makes the little guys hard to knock off their skates.

If he grew another inch or two, I think he'd still be the same player he is now. 5'7" is still ridiculously small for the NHL and he'd still be towered over by most players.
 

RECsGuy*

Guest
The fact of the matter is we could use this same scenerio for numerous players....
IE: If Ryan Murphy was 6-4" 230lbs and with the same skill set and skating ability he probably would have been No.1.

I'm not going to that extreme. I'm simply saying, make him average height. Then what?
 

Ward Cornell

Registered User
Dec 22, 2007
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I'm not going to that extreme. I'm simply saying, make him average height. Then what?

Too be honest if he was 5-10, 180lbs he wouldn't be talked about and pimped as much.
His height (or lack of) is what has set him apart and got the fans talking about him.
His skills jumpout because of physical stature and would not be as noticeable if he was larger.
 

ProPAIN

I am the DANGER!
Nov 3, 2009
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If everything was the same (skill, speed, technique, performances) and he was taller, I'm sure he was a 1st round pick. Top 5? Maybe not. Top 20 for sure.
 

Garyboy

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Oct 31, 2010
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Pre-injury Samsonov had some of the best hands and wheels I've ever seen. He could stick handle at full speed like it was absolutely nothing.

Samsanov was something else. He was talked about as the next Bure when he and his Red Army teammates were touring the GTA as 15,16 year olds. Unbelievable talent that never quite lived up to his billing. Still carved out a nice career nonetheless.

Here's a story they did of him on HNIC way back when.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IjN4N7n_G0
 

theIceWookie

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Dec 19, 2010
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...was average height (5'10" - 6'), how high would he have been taken?

Assuming his work ethic was the same, then probably top 10.

Personally I think his work ethic comes out of him being so small. He gets that drive and work ethic and fearlessness and compete level from being overlooked all his life (at least in hockey). He wants to prove himself and wants to show people they were wrong for underestimating him.

Talent doesn't change with height, but work ethic and drive does.
 

Rabid Ranger

2 is better than one
Feb 27, 2002
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Too be honest if he was 5-10, 180lbs he wouldn't be talked about and pimped as much.
His height (or lack of) is what has set him apart and got the fans talking about him.
His skills jumpout because of physical stature and would not be as noticeable if he was larger.

I think you're downplaying his skill level a bit here. Being a bit taller/heavier wouldn't take away from the fact that his shot, skating, and overall skill level is in the very top tier of this draft.
 

theIceWookie

#LeafHysteriaAlert
Dec 19, 2010
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Yep, that's what I'm hoping. I grew a couple inches after I graduated high school. It's definitely common.



He's very small but there's no way he's 5'4". He looks around 5'6". Plus they took all their measurements at the combine.

BTW, St. Louis wishes he was 5'9" lol. Then he could get onto the rollercoasters.

Prospects get measured at the combine so lying wouldn't have done anything for him. Teams would have found out and that would have reflected badly on him. So he is very likely 5 foot 6.

It's also possible he grows but it isn't going to be much. At most, maybe two inches. he isn't going to have a 4 or 5 inch growth spurt.
 

Zeroknowledge*

Guest
Mid to late 1st.

His personality was another reason he fell out of the 1st round.

Only in hockey you're gonna have a guy get passed on because he's not willing to party every night, drink and get in trouble every once while then.

I heard other players from the NTDP were polled on which player in this draft do they wish to play along and most of them answered Grimaldi.

I doubt his personality cost him to go in re 2nd round I'm pretty sure if he was even 5'8 he would have went in the top 15. 5'6 is way too short to get drafted at all look at Gionta and St Louis. At least he got drafted.
 

Bank Shot

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Jan 18, 2006
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Because even Samsonov had 2 inches and 20 pounds on him? Guys that size are a huge risk.

Sure they are a risk, but if scouts saw him as having first overall talent, they would go higher then the second round IMO. 2 inches and 20 lbs isn't that much of a difference. Samsonov is still tiny, and size was seen as more of a factor when he was drafted.

Your Samsonov comparison doesn't really hold water though. Brian Gionta was unbelievably talented at that age. So was Michael Cammalleri. And Marty St. Louis. Where they drafted as high as Samsonov? Or even Grimaldi? It goes both ways.

None of those guys came even close to Samsonov at the beginning of his career. He was in the IHL at 17, won the Calder at 18, and scored 75 points at 21. None of the others were NHl regulars at the same age.

Gionta, and St.Louis weren't even playing in legitimately scouted leagues, in their draft years.

Cammalleri went in the second round as well as Grimaldi so there isn't a lot of difference there. One think I can tell you is that Cammalleri doesn't have first overall pick talent. Should have been picked higher, sure, but not first overall.

Kane played with better talent on his NTDP team in a much weaker league - the NAHL. See my previous post addressing this:

And Kane completely outshone the better talent he played with. That helps Kane's case, not hurts it.


Grimaldi is clearly a good player, but I think that his talent gets a little exaggerated because of his size. Everyone like a good underdog story.
 

17Kurri

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Apr 10, 2010
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Sure they are a risk, but if scouts saw him as having first overall talent, they would go higher then the second round IMO. 2 inches and 20 lbs isn't that much of a difference. Samsonov is still tiny, and size was seen as more of a factor when he was drafted.



None of those guys came even close to Samsonov at the beginning of his career. He was in the IHL at 17, won the Calder at 18, and scored 75 points at 21. None of the others were NHl regulars at the same age.

Gionta, and St.Louis weren't even playing in legitimately scouted leagues, in their draft years.

Cammalleri went in the second round as well as Grimaldi so there isn't a lot of difference there. One think I can tell you is that Cammalleri doesn't have first overall pick talent. Should have been picked higher, sure, but not first overall.



And Kane completely outshone the better talent he played with. That helps Kane's case, not hurts it.


Grimaldi is clearly a good player, but I think that his talent gets a little exaggerated because of his size. Everyone like a good underdog story.

20lbs over 2inches is a huge difference, imo. Especially when we're talking about guys 5'6" and 5'8". It wouldn't be such a big difference if we were talking about guys 6'0" and 6'2".

I do agree with the Grimaldi being a feel good underdog story part, though.
 

Zarpan

Registered User
Apr 27, 2010
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If he is so amazing, why wasn't he a high pick despite his size like Sergei Samsonov?

Samsonov proved he could play in a tough pro league against much older players before he was drafted. That would lessen concerns that he wouldn't be able to make it in the NHL. Grimaldi doesn't have that experience.
 

William H Bonney

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Feb 27, 2002
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Sure they are a risk, but if scouts saw him as having first overall talent, they would go higher then the second round IMO. 2 inches and 20 lbs isn't that much of a difference. Samsonov is still tiny, and size was seen as more of a factor when he was drafted.

2 inches and 20 lbs is a big difference when you're only 5'6 and 160+ lbs.

None of those guys came even close to Samsonov at the beginning of his career. He was in the IHL at 17, won the Calder at 18, and scored 75 points at 21. None of the others were NHl regulars at the same age.

Gionta, and St.Louis weren't even playing in legitimately scouted leagues, in their draft years.

Cammalleri went in the second round as well as Grimaldi so there isn't a lot of difference there. One think I can tell you is that Cammalleri doesn't have first overall pick talent. Should have been picked higher, sure, but not first overall.

That's not the point. Just because one small guy went high doesn't discredit every other small player that's hyped but doesn't go as high. And as you point out, Samsonov played in a much better league heading into his draft. That helps alleviate the scouts concerns about his size. Most, if not all, of the other highly talented small guys didn't have that opportunity to help shed some of that worry prior to their draft. Scouts are wrong a lot. That's the point. Just because they were right on Samsonov to take him that high doesn't mean they weren't wrong on Gionta, St. Louis, Cammalleri, or possibly Grimaldi. On the flip side, it doesn't mean Grimaldi would have actually went that high were he 5'10 or that he'll turn out as well as those guys either. It's impossible to know. But if you want to split hairs on perspective, by all means, but it's not as if people are pulling this out of thin air. There's plenty of chatter from scouts, legitimate sources, and NHL teams that have stated as much as well.

Oh, and NCAA hockey isn't legitimately scouted? That's news to everyone.

And Kane completely outshone the better talent he played with. That helps Kane's case, not hurts it.


Grimaldi is clearly a good player, but I think that his talent gets a little exaggerated because of his size. Everyone like a good underdog story.

You can twist stats however you want but comparing player's production in a far superior league to another player's production on a weaker NTDP team in a much better league isn't apple for apples. Phil Kessel outscored Pat Kane. Does that automatically make him better too?

Or I could flip it and say Kane didn't get promoted to the U-18 team as a 16 year old like Grimaldi did either. As I said, we can twist the stats however we want but comparing NAHL stats to USHL stats is absurd.

On your last point, it's possible. Or you could see him play multiple times to see what everyone else has seen. Maybe you'll agree. Or maybe you still won't. But it's unfair to act like Grimaldi is and was only getting hyped because he's a small, albeit talented guy, and people thus like the underdog story. There's a lot of tiny players that are extremely talented at the junior level that never get the hype Grimaldi did and that's for a reason. Don't believe me? Just see what John Gaudreau did this year in the USHL and the corresponding pub he got.
 

William H Bonney

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
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Too be honest if he was 5-10, 180lbs he wouldn't be talked about and pimped as much.
His height (or lack of) is what has set him apart and got the fans talking about him.
His skills jumpout because of physical stature and would not be as noticeable if he was larger.

For starters, you can't prove that. And while I understand your point about hypothetical "If player X was _________" situations, it's merely to put into perspective not just Grimaldi's talent but the way he plays the game for so many here that haven't obviously seen him play. There's been a lot of highly skilled small guys, one's bigger than Grimaldi, that haven't received a fraction of the hype he has and there's a reason: Hint, it's not just because he's small.

I'm shocked why John Gaudreau, who put up better stats in the USHL this year, didn't get the same hype. I mean, "his height (or lack of) is what has set him apart and got the fans talking about him. His skills jumpout because of physical stature and would not be as noticeable if he was larger." Right?
 

17Kurri

Registered User
Apr 10, 2010
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For starters, you can't prove that. And while I understand your point about hypothetical "If player X was _________" situations, it's merely to put into perspective not just Grimaldi's talent but the way he plays the game for so many here that haven't obviously seen him play. There's been a lot of highly skilled small guys, one's bigger than Grimaldi, that haven't received a fraction of the hype he has and there's a reason: Hint, it's not just because he's small.

I'm shocked why John Gaudreau, who put up better stats in the USHL this year, didn't get the same hype. I mean, "his height (or lack of) is what has set him apart and got the fans talking about him. His skills jumpout because of physical stature and would not be as noticeable if he was larger." Right?

I agree that it's ludicrous to minimize the impact of Grimaldi's talents on the hype he received, but it's just as ludicrous to minimize the impact of his size (or lack thereof) on that same hype. More likely than not, it was a combo of both components.

At the end of the day, the total package (talent and size included) was not deemed to be 1st round worthy, and I think rightfully so.
 

NHL Fanatic

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Oct 4, 2010
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Grimaldi was one of the best player at the combine at 5'6. He is very skilled and if he was 5'10-6 feet, he would probably have gone top 10 no doubt.
 

battlingBard56

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May 30, 2011
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Union County, NJ
It seems this guy was passed over mainly because of his size. No matter how many NHLers prove they can work to overcome their lack of size (see St. Louis, Rafalski, Theo Fleury (sp?), Parise) it will always be something that will scare away most NHL scouts no matter their potential. Just means those scouts will always be proven wrong and the teams that take chances will benefit from taking those "risks".

As for Grimaldi, he looks built like a rock. It's evident he works extremely hard on his muscle building and conditioning. If a player works enough on building themselves up and making themselves strong, lack of height becomes that much less of an issue.
 

Edges7*

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Feb 25, 2010
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I'm shocked why John Gaudreau, who put up better stats in the USHL this year, didn't get the same hype. I mean, "his height (or lack of) is what has set him apart and got the fans talking about him. His skills jumpout because of physical stature and would not be as noticeable if he was larger." Right?

If comes down to this...the relationship that the USHL has cultivated with the NHL..which is practically null...
 

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