Skinnyjimmy08
WorldTraveler
- Mar 30, 2012
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RW Pavel Buchnevich (2013, 75th, NYR)
- Thread starter Kshahdoo
- Start date
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Yeah, there really just isn't much news about Buch. AV doesn't want to play him, and I've never seen a coach with a shorter leash on a player. All season long when he's been on the top 3 lines he would always be the first player moved down, if the team wasn't scoring goals. The form in the game of the top 9 didn't matter, he was always the player to take the fall. And now that everyone is healthy, AV refuses to play more than one of Buch or Vesey in the top 9. Vesey is an AV favorite. He had like 2 really bad months with no scratch, Buch had one indifferent game, and he's scratched. And on the 4th line, Buch can't do much. The fourth line barely plays. AV plays them a lot less than the other lines the first two periods, and unless they are scoring pretty much all the goals in that game, they don't play more than a shift or two the third period. AV goes with three lines after two periods for the most part, so Buch is playing with grinders of late to begin with and plays like one or two shifts in the fourth. His only real chance for offense is the PP, of which AV even took him off the last game. I think in like the last 8 or 9 games he's had 1 period playing anything other than 12th forward at ES with some PP minutes.
And now if he finds his way back up the lineup, people will give AV credit. AV tried to paint this narrative where he's a struggling rookie. No one should buy into that AV propaganda though. He's been playing well pretty much all season. Can't play well though, if you don't play. The team is good, so they don't need Buchnevich, but AV's usage of Buchnevich is so strange.
And now if he finds his way back up the lineup, people will give AV credit. AV tried to paint this narrative where he's a struggling rookie. No one should buy into that AV propaganda though. He's been playing well pretty much all season. Can't play well though, if you don't play. The team is good, so they don't need Buchnevich, but AV's usage of Buchnevich is so strange.
Baemon Severson*
N1CO!!!
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Buchnevich hasn't earned playing time over any of the 9 guys on the depth chart in front of him at the moment. The closest is Vesey at times, but he's much more of a finished product than Pavel and also had the benefit of being healthy while the Rangers were dealing with other injuries during his down stretch.
The Rangers aren't rebuilding. They're a competitive team. Plus, AV absolutely knows what he's doing with young forwards. Kreider, Miller and Hayes have all spent extended (and deserved) periods of time "in the doghouse" of AV. What are they doing now?
Buchnevich isn't getting "jerked around" in favor of veterans who he's better than.
The Rangers aren't rebuilding. They're a competitive team. Plus, AV absolutely knows what he's doing with young forwards. Kreider, Miller and Hayes have all spent extended (and deserved) periods of time "in the doghouse" of AV. What are they doing now?
Buchnevich isn't getting "jerked around" in favor of veterans who he's better than.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Buchnevich has a way higher PPG average than Vesey, despite playing less time per game. I've heard it a lot that Vesey is more of a finished product, but the logic doesn't make any sense. He's currently worse at hockey than Buchnevich, so how is he more of a finished product? Maybe he's currently closer to his ceiling than Buchnevich is to his, but thats more of an indictment on Vesey not being that good than anything. And while Grabner is having a great season, his game wouldn't take much of a hit on the fourth line where he was penciled in to start the season. His game is not about 5 on 5 zone time, its about odd man rushes. He's faster than everyone on the ice. He's not going to suffer much if its Fast or Lindberg finding him wide open behind the defense as opposed to Hayes or Miller. As we've now seen with Buchnevich and Vesey, rookie skill players don't belong on the 4th line, but of course people will try to excuse this as the Rangers having so much depth that there is no fourth line, which doesn't change the fact that a rookie skill player should not be playing 10 minutes a game with Fast and Lindberg, if you expect them to put up points. There are ways to get Buchnevich into the top 9 with more minutes. This is just AV doing his typical thing he does with skilled rookies.
And I wouldn't give AV any credit for this when Buchnevich eventually moves up and starts producing. He's actively choosing to make the Rangers worse for the current time and long-term future by delaying Buchnevich's development, along with giving worse players more ice time and a bigger role. AV doesn't get a pass for bad decisions with Kreider and Miller just because those players eventually after many years he started to trust more. Hayes was in the doghouse because of his own doing, you can't show up to work unfit to work and lazy, and expect to not be reprimanded, which is exactly what happened last season when it was widely reported that he showed up out of shape and had a bad attitude about his second season. Thats a completely different situation, doesn't really have much relation to this one.
- Jul 28, 2011
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Worse at hockey how? Buch has a higher skill set for sure, but Vesey's compete level is far superior. Vesey's all around game is more polished. A great pass or move here and there from Buch, doesn't make him the more finished product.
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Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Ah yes, compete level. One of my favorite terms. This term is way overused. It applies to players like Callahan and polar opposites, but I think you'd find that almost every NHL player has the same compete level. And I don't know how Vesey is more polished. What is more polished about his game? I'd assume this means he's much better defensively because lazy Russian ofc, but AV switches him out for Fast late in the game for defensive reasons along with Vesey playing no PK, so evidently his polish advantage is nonexistent.
Fact of the matter is this. Vesey averages with .40PPG with 13:50 per game, Buchnevich averages .58PPG with 13:17 per game. That PPG difference is a big one, its like 14 more over an 82 game season with over 30 seconds less per game for Buchnevich. These are supposed to be skilled top 9 forwards, so I don't know why Vesey's mythical compete level and polish advantage even matters, nor should this discussion even be had, although the record needs to be corrected when people say there's no place in the top 9 for Buchnevich. Neither should be on the 4th line. AV doesn't seem to understand that skilled rookies don't have much use on the fourth line with players like Fast and Lindberg, yet he keeps doing it. I think there's been like 4 or 5 games the whole season where everyone was healthy and both players were in the top 9. Thats a problem, whether its Buchnevich on the fourth line or Vesey on the fourth line.
kp61c
Registered User
FLYLine27*
BUCH
The Rangers top 9 is about as solid as you can find in the NHL. He is the youngest player on roster..he will get his shot when someone gets injured. He's still get PP time though.
FLYLine27*
BUCH
I don't even mind Buch on the 4th line getting PP time, my issue right now is that AV has started to bench the 4th line and isn't rolling 4 lines anymore. Go back to rolling the lines and it's fine to have Buch on the 4th line imo.
Edit: Not like he's playing with AHL plugs on our 4th line, it's guys like Lindberg, Fast, Pirri and Puempel so it's fine. Issue is that he's not getting enough ice-time because AV isn't rolling the lines anymore.
Edit: Not like he's playing with AHL plugs on our 4th line, it's guys like Lindberg, Fast, Pirri and Puempel so it's fine. Issue is that he's not getting enough ice-time because AV isn't rolling the lines anymore.
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Matz03
Registered User
He's definitely ready and belongs in the NHL. And I don't even mind he's playing 4th line at this time, as said above the top 9 players are mostly vets who currently deserve to be up there. I think this will help Buch in the long term and him playing with Lindberg-Fast who are easily 3rd line talents on worse teams, not some ordinary grinders or checkers. It is a luxury this team has.
If Grabner disappears for a few games, he can easily get bumped down. I'm also banking on Nash being traded, so a top 9 spot can quickly open up as soon as next week. If Nash is traded then I hope to see Buch next to Zib and Krider again, that was a dominant line.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
AV still rolls 4 lines, just not late in games. Then again, Vesey was replaced by Fast on his line late in the game last night against the Habs.
He's started to go down on players as early as in the 2nd period lately though, i don't like that, not with our F depth.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
gwh
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2013
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So you are saying that Buch didn't put the "if AHL, loan me to KHL" clause in his contract? I understand this is pretty standard fare for established russian players.
Please, tell me more.
Buch has KHL clause and Vesey has been promised roster spot + burned contract year... No other way to get them to sign, at all.
And good to see Vesey pick up the pace a little, but 4+3 in last 35games is not that great. More like a 4th liner pace.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
"Paying his dues".
Also his conditioning needed work. I'm a huge fan though, I think he'll be a star player as soon as next season.
HHHH
Registered User
- Feb 15, 2010
- 1,221
- 1,129
Bruins fan from Hartford...
I saw him play on Wednesday night in Hartford against Springfield, and he definitely stood out in terms of skill at the AHL level and I was impressed with a lot of the things he did beyond scoring two goals including the game winner in OT. I commented to my son during the game that Buchnevich looked like he was a step ahead of the competition in the AHL
Then saw him snipe the B's on TV Thursday night; what a shot!
I saw him play on Wednesday night in Hartford against Springfield, and he definitely stood out in terms of skill at the AHL level and I was impressed with a lot of the things he did beyond scoring two goals including the game winner in OT. I commented to my son during the game that Buchnevich looked like he was a step ahead of the competition in the AHL
Then saw him snipe the B's on TV Thursday night; what a shot!
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
The problem is the double standards.
"The sweepstakes" has been maybe the biggest disappointment among rookies in the NHL, yet he has top 9 minutes spoon fed to him by the coach.
Buchnevich goes three games without scoring after 6 in 4 games, and he's demoted to the fourth line, which of course he can't produce on. Its not his game, very low minutes, awful assignments, bad line mates, playing with and against grinders. Then the coach has the nerve to scratch him multiple times and demote him to the AHL before he gets another chance, despite him having a KHL clause! "The sweepstakes" hasn't even been healthy scratched. And then there's the case of Grabner who's a career okay 3rd liner/4th liner who hasn't scored a point in 8 games on the 3rd line. When he comes back, does Buchnevich go to the 4th line or out of the lineup? Is Grabner back in the top 9?
Its the inconsistency that is the biggest problem. Some have said AV does this because he sees more potential in Buch than "The sweepstakes", and really who wouldn't, but I don't know how that helps the NHL team. Its not like he's a malcontent who's causing problems or continually missing defensive assignments. The coach just doesn't give him the same leash that he gives literally every NHL regular on the team.
"The sweepstakes" has been maybe the biggest disappointment among rookies in the NHL, yet he has top 9 minutes spoon fed to him by the coach.
Buchnevich goes three games without scoring after 6 in 4 games, and he's demoted to the fourth line, which of course he can't produce on. Its not his game, very low minutes, awful assignments, bad line mates, playing with and against grinders. Then the coach has the nerve to scratch him multiple times and demote him to the AHL before he gets another chance, despite him having a KHL clause! "The sweepstakes" hasn't even been healthy scratched. And then there's the case of Grabner who's a career okay 3rd liner/4th liner who hasn't scored a point in 8 games on the 3rd line. When he comes back, does Buchnevich go to the 4th line or out of the lineup? Is Grabner back in the top 9?
Its the inconsistency that is the biggest problem. Some have said AV does this because he sees more potential in Buch than "The sweepstakes", and really who wouldn't, but I don't know how that helps the NHL team. Its not like he's a malcontent who's causing problems or continually missing defensive assignments. The coach just doesn't give him the same leash that he gives literally every NHL regular on the team.
