Olympics: Russia approves athletes competing under neutral flag, KHLers to play

[sandysan]

Usada and Travis Tygart (don't remember the exact quote, but it was something like this)

on russian athletes: "No need to have a positif doping test to proove their fault, that their a guilty"

on justin gatlin: "It's important to say, that people are not guilty until we have proof of their positif doping test"


H - Hypocrisy

I'm sorry justin gatlin ( for all of his warts) served his time ( well half of it, but it still amounts to 4 years). What's hypocritical is the notion that getting caught and serving a ban is the same as athletes living under RUSADA that did not, and to this day does not do wada compliant tests.

so if gatlin can do his time why can't dopers like efimova ? Oh that's right its because of her sponsors and her nationality.

Its really hard to get pinched for doping when the entity that is responsible for testing is run like a criminal enterprise.

You want russian athletes to not live under the shadow of suspicion ? Implement compliant testing. You have the ability to do so, what you lack is the will, or the morals or both.

 

[JLo217]

Usada and Travis Tygart (don't remember the exact quote, but it was something like this)

on russian athletes: "No need to have a positif doping test to proove their fault, that their a guilty"

on justin gatlin: "It's important to say, that people are not guilty until we have proof of their positif doping test"


H - Hypocrisy

And they were still proven guilty...

I don't understand whats impossible to understand. This will pass and Russia will be back in the games and all nations will resume cheating as normal. This is just stopping it from being state run.

 

[jj cale]

So the Russians are going to compete under some neutral flag/status .

And people thought the last World cup was ridiculous because of team Europe and team N.A under 24. Well what do these same people think of this foolishness?

What rubbish, the olympics in hockey this year is a JOKE.........................period.

 

[Jussi]

So the Russians are going to compete under some neutral flag/status .

And people thought the last World cup was ridiculous because of team Europe and team N.A under 24. Well what do these same people think of this foolishness?

What rubbish, the olympics in hockey this year is a JOKE.........................period.

Team Europe and NA Under 24 were organizer's choices, Russia competing under the Olympicv flag as punishment for their doping violations. Sure, no difference at all

 

[Backami]

Russia cheated. Sorry they got caught?

One of the most anticipated races of all times was the 100 meter sprint final between Canadian Ben Johnson and American Carl Lewis at the 1988 Seoul Olympics.

Johnson catapulted from the blocks like a bullet and broke the world record in a phenomenal 9.79 seconds, leaving his competitors for dead. Two days later, the Canadian hero sensationally went from victor to villain as news broke that he had tested positive for the banned anabolic steroid stanozolol.

The gold was subsequently handed to second-placed Lewis. Remarkably, Lewis himself had failed three tests for banned substances just two months prior to the Seoul Olympics, which under IOC rules at the time should have prevented him from competing. But the U.S. Olympic Committee overturned the ban after the athlete said he had ingested the stimulants mistakenly in a herbal supplement, and he was allowed to compete. In 2003, Lewis publicly stated he was one of hundreds of U.S. athletes whose positive tests were covered up. In total, six out of the eight men in that final line up of the 100 meter sprint would eventually be linked to doping.

USA cheated! Sorry, they didnt got caught?

 

[jj cale]

Team Europe and NA Under 24 were organizer's choices, Russia competing under the Olympicv flag as punishment for their doping violations. Sure, no difference at all

Sure, there is a difference............but it's still laughable.

Are you saying it isn't?

I mean cmon......this Olympic hockey tournament is a joke now and I am sure if you are being honest you know it.

 

[JLo217]

One of the most anticipated races of all times was the 100 meter sprint final between Canadian Ben Johnson and American Carl Lewis at the 1988 Seoul Olympics.

Johnson catapulted from the blocks like a bullet and broke the world record in a phenomenal 9.79 seconds, leaving his competitors for dead. Two days later, the Canadian hero sensationally went from victor to villain as news broke that he had tested positive for the banned anabolic steroid stanozolol.

The gold was subsequently handed to second-placed Lewis. Remarkably, Lewis himself had failed three tests for banned substances just two months prior to the Seoul Olympics, which under IOC rules at the time should have prevented him from competing. But the U.S. Olympic Committee overturned the ban after the athlete said he had ingested the stimulants mistakenly in a herbal supplement, and he was allowed to compete. In 2003, Lewis publicly stated he was one of hundreds of U.S. athletes whose positive tests were covered up. In total, six out of the eight men in that final line up of the 100 meter sprint would eventually be linked to doping.

USA cheated! Sorry, they didnt got caught?

I didn't say no one else cheated. I'm not saying the USA or Canada are any better when it comes to athletes cheating. If you could read and see in previous posts I've stated that.

The difference is Russia as a State was sponsoring cheating. The USA hasn't systematically done that or been caught. The form of cheating that happens in the USA is through companies like the Nike Oregon project, where they actually still abide by the laws just use work arounds and non-banned substances such shots for Thyroid conditions.

 

[Jussi]

Sure, there is a difference............but it's still laughable.

Are you saying it isn't?

I mean cmon......this Olympic hockey tournament is a joke now and I am sure if you are being honest you know it.

It's not a joke if Finland wins gold. Doesn't matter who the opponent was or what level the players were. We'd still celebrate until the end of the year and all the Finnish posters would gloat like hell on this site. Because we're kind of dicks about that.

 

[Jussi]

I didn't say no one else cheated. I'm not saying the USA or Canada are any better when it comes to athletes cheating. If you could read and see in previous posts I've stated that.

The difference is Russia as a State was sponsoring cheating. The USA hasn't systematically done that or been caught. The form of cheating that happens in the USA is through companies like the Nike Oregon project, where they actually still abide by the laws just use work arounds and non-banned substances such shots for Thyroid conditions.

Or Santa Monica Track Club.

 

[JLo217]

Or Santa Monica Track Club.

Like I said... "Companies like"

 

[Jussi]

Like I said... "Companies like"

Yeah, I just wanted to add that because IIRC, at one time several members were either caught or suspected of doping.


Btw, Igor Larionov said something I've seen no Russian poster here saying: "Instead of creating dialog, making the right decisions and playing by the rules, we're unfortunately constantly looking for an enemy from somewhere. If you make a mistake, you have to own up to it. And start life from a clean table."

 

[JLo217]

Yeah, I just wanted to add that because IIRC, at one time several members were either caught or suspected of doping.


Btw, Igor Larionov said something I've seen no Russian poster here saying: "Instead of creating dialog, making the right decisions and playing by the rules, we're unfortunately constantly looking for an enemy from somewhere. If you make a mistake, you have to own up to it. And start life from a clean table."

I think thats a great statement.

I think the problem is no matter who cheats the way its handled by the athlete can show guilt. No one is sitting here and trying to say Russia is evil or the bad guy. The problem is they were caught systematically cheating from a State sponsored level. To me their response shows more guilt than the actual strong evidence. Everyone says the other side has a narrative or Russiaphobia. That just isn't the case. The evidence is there. It's not like the world is trying to tarnish these athletes or even Russia. If they were they simply would just say no athletes from the country at all.

Instead they're still letting those they can't prove guilty compete. On the other hand Russia is doing everything it can to paint a narrative or tell a story that defends what they have been found guilty of. They rely on the nationalist mentality and get the people to buy in. It's unfortunate that it happened, and its sad for everyone that can't participate. It's sad that there is that much pressure in competitive sports.

But to me even if Russia wanted to deny it, and get people to buy in, they'd help fix the problems and make sure it wasn't happening on a state or individual level instead of playing the boy who cried wolf and using it's control to assert its non guilty plea.

 

[jj cale]

It's not a joke if Finland wins gold. Doesn't matter who the opponent was or what level the players were. We'd still celebrate until the end of the year and all the Finnish posters would gloat like hell on this site. Because we're kind of dicks about that.

I know, lol.

You would have gloated winning the world cup too......eventhough you say it was ridiculous. I guess it does not matter about ghost teams in the olympics or gimmick teams in the world cup then, so why give one a hard time and not the other? They both were/are jokes.

I guess that is my point.

 

[Hanji]

So the Russians are going to compete under some neutral flag/status .

And people thought the last World cup was ridiculous because of team Europe and team N.A under 24. Well what do these same people think of this foolishness?

What rubbish, the olympics in hockey this year is a JOKE.........................period.

Not comparable.

The only thing unfortunate about PeongChang is the NHL not participating. Russia is playing under a temporary different name because they cant follow the rules. However anybody with a brain knows it will be the Russian national team participating.

The World Cup was an international tourney with national teams vs ad hoc non-national teams. An utterly ridiculous gimmicky scenario.
Im looking forward to the next one with Team Ethnic Minority vs Team Over-35, complete with glowing pucks, strobe lights and moving nets.

 

[jj cale]

Not comparable.

The only thing unfortunate about PeongChang is the NHL not participating. Russia is playing under a temporary different name because they cant follow the rules. However anybody with a brain knows it will be the Russian national team participating.

The World Cup was an international tourney with national teams vs ad hoc non-national teams. An utterly ridiculous gimmicky scenario.
Im looking forward to the next one with Team Ethnic Minority vs Team Over-35, complete with glowing pucks, strobe lights and moving nets.

Yes everyone knows it is still the russian team......it is still ridiculous that we have an olympic tournament with a team that can't say who it is!!

A joke. You can try to pass it off as anything else but it is what it is.

 

[Hanji]

Yes everyone knows it is still the russian team......it is still ridiculous that we have an olympic tournament with a team that can't say who it is!!

A joke. You can try to pass it off as anything else but it is what it is.

I believe the participants will be able to say they’re Russian, just not representing Russia. Not a big deal, all things considering.

Either way, I find it curious someone would apply the same amount of scruitny towards a team’s name as they do the actual content of the team.

In no parallel universe is Team USA vs Team Russia (using a different name) as farcical and childish as Team USA vs Team U-23. Not remotely close.

 

[jj cale]

I believe the participants will be able to say they’re Russian, just not representing Russia. Not a big deal, all things considering.

Either way, I find it curious someone would apply the same amount of scruitny towards a team’s name as they do the actual content of the team.

In no parallel universe is Team USA vs Team Russia (using a different name) as farcical and childish as Team USA vs Team U-23. Not remotely close.

O.K, carry on then.

 

[sandysan]

So the Russians are going to compete under some neutral flag/status .

And people thought the last World cup was ridiculous because of team Europe and team N.A under 24. Well what do these same people think of this foolishness?

What rubbish, the olympics in hockey this year is a JOKE.........................period.

They were a joke the second the nhl came to it's senses.

A slightly less legitimate world championship, ooooh sign me up!

 

[Hanji]

EX-SOVIET STAR SAYS RUSSIANS CHEATED ON DRUG TESTS

Larionov sounds a little too accusatory and self-serving here. He claims steroid use was voluminous, ripe and systematic, even forced on players.
But, true to form, he, himself, never doped.

 

[RossiyaSport]

Larinov is a scumbag and one of the main guys responsible for destroying Russian kids careers.

 

[jj cale]

They were a joke the second the nhl came to it's senses.

A slightly less legitimate world championship, ooooh sign me up!

That is true also, although this Russian team neutral business makes it even more so. It's all really silly now with that icing on the cake.

I won't watch a second of that farce, don't know how anyone can.

 

[RossiyaSport]

Theres a University experiment where if a rat touches something and it gives them a shock they will learn its going to give them a shock and stop touching it.

Yet for some reason humans can not stop blindly believing every word said about Russia by people who have a perfect record of lying about Russia. People who are getting caught in huge lies about Russia on a daily basis.

Now, wouldn't you think it was prudent and responsible to question the statements by people with a clear agenda against Russia. Questions about massive logic holes. Questions about a complete lack of evidence. Questions about individuals complete lack of credibility. What would it hurt to hold something to actual scrutiny.

[MOD]

The way WADA and IOC are operating is similar to Google. Google, which should be apolitical, has very clear political agendas. And as time goes on acts on those agendas more aggressively with censoring, de ranking, de monetizing people and companies who don't have the right opinion in their eyes.

What is the end result of that? Google is destroying its credibility. And for what? To attack some people with the 'wrong' opinion. Western elite has a monopoly on international sports. A pretty good thing going for them. And they are willing to destroy that. For what, to delusionalaly think they are 'sticking it to Putin'.

Heres the thing. As time goes on more and more of this official story is going to be debunked and shown how utterly flawed it is and how this is largely being done on the words of a criminal being paid off by the Russophobia industry. Iraq WMD claims sound good at first but eventually more and more of the truth comes out.

 

[Jablkon]

Theres a University experiment where if a rat touches something and it gives them a shock they will learn its going to give them a shock and stop touching it.

Yet for some reason humans can not stop blindly believing every word said about Russia by people who have a perfect record of lying about Russia. People who are getting caught in huge lies about Russia on a daily basis.

Now, wouldn't you think it was prudent and responsible to question the statements by people with a clear agenda against Russia. Questions about massive logic holes. Questions about a complete lack of evidence. Questions about individuals complete lack of credibility. What would it hurt to hold something to actual scrutiny.

[MOD]

The way WADA and IOC are operating is similar to Google. Google, which should be apolitical, has very clear political agendas. And as time goes on acts on those agendas more aggressively with censoring, de ranking, de monetizing people and companies who don't have the right opinion in their eyes.

What is the end result of that? Google is destroying its credibility. And for what? To attack some people with the 'wrong' opinion. Western elite has a monopoly on international sports. A pretty good thing going for them. And they are willing to destroy that. For what, to delusionalaly think they are 'sticking it to Putin'.

Heres the thing. As time goes on more and more of this official story is going to be debunked and shown how utterly flawed it is and how this is largely being done on the words of a criminal being paid off by the Russophobia industry. Iraq WMD claims sound good at first but eventually more and more of the truth comes out.

You remind me that greek university students who were all super hyped over communism despite they never experienced it. Especially europosters here dont have any experience with Russia and believe in your google conspiracy....

 

[Hanji]

Theres a University experiment where if a rat touches something and it gives them a shock they will learn its going to give them a shock and stop touching it.

Yet for some reason humans can not stop blindly believing every word said about Russia by people who have a perfect record of lying about Russia. People who are getting caught in huge lies about Russia on a daily basis.

Now, wouldn't you think it was prudent and responsible to question the statements by people with a clear agenda against Russia. Questions about massive logic holes. Questions about a complete lack of evidence. Questions about individuals complete lack of credibility. What would it hurt to hold something to actual scrutiny.

[MOD]

The way WADA and IOC are operating is similar to Google. Google, which should be apolitical, has very clear political agendas. And as time goes on acts on those agendas more aggressively with censoring, de ranking, de monetizing people and companies who don't have the right opinion in their eyes.

What is the end result of that? Google is destroying its credibility. And for what? To attack some people with the 'wrong' opinion. Western elite has a monopoly on international sports. A pretty good thing going for them. And they are willing to destroy that. For what, to delusionalaly think they are 'sticking it to Putin'.

Heres the thing. As time goes on more and more of this official story is going to be debunked and shown how utterly flawed it is and how this is largely being done on the words of a criminal being paid off by the Russophobia industry. Iraq WMD claims sound good at first but eventually more and more of the truth comes out.

Yeah, everybody cheats. Any rational person knows every country's Olympic committee is guilty of at least looking the other way while their athletes dope.
And as it pertains to the United States, Christ almighty, forget doping, the USOC now appears to be guilty of enabling sexual predators:
290 coaches, officials tied to U.S. Olympic groups have been accused of sexual misconduct since 1982
McKayla Maroney accuses USOC and USA Gymnastics of covering up sexual abuse with secret settlement

The difference is, unlike Russia, we the populace will not stand for cheaters (see Lance Armstrong) nor do we blame anybody else for our cheaters actions.

 

[sandysan]

Theres a University experiment where if a rat touches something and it gives them a shock they will learn its going to give them a shock and stop touching it.

Yet for some reason humans can not stop blindly believing every word said about Russia by people who have a perfect record of lying about Russia. People who are getting caught in huge lies about Russia on a daily basis.

Now, wouldn't you think it was prudent and responsible to question the statements by people with a clear agenda against Russia. Questions about massive logic holes. Questions about a complete lack of evidence. Questions about individuals complete lack of credibility. What would it hurt to hold something to actual scrutiny.

[MOD]

The way WADA and IOC are operating is similar to Google. Google, which should be apolitical, has very clear political agendas. And as time goes on acts on those agendas more aggressively with censoring, de ranking, de monetizing people and companies who don't have the right opinion in their eyes.

What is the end result of that? Google is destroying its credibility. And for what? To attack some people with the 'wrong' opinion. Western elite has a monopoly on international sports. A pretty good thing going for them. And they are willing to destroy that. For what, to delusionalaly think they are 'sticking it to Putin'.

Heres the thing. As time goes on more and more of this official story is going to be debunked and shown how utterly flawed it is and how this is largely being done on the words of a criminal being paid off by the Russophobia industry. Iraq WMD claims sound good at first but eventually more and more of the truth comes out.

Ah yes the russiaphobia that imagined a black lab and non compliant testing.

You know what is also true ? People so blind by nationalism that they set up the system to ignore dopers and then claim that the fact they were not pinched by a corrupt system as proof of their innocence.

People who ignore reality and substitute their own are and should be mocked ( see Chemical Ali). If you don't know who that is, may I suggest consulting a mirror? A western russiaphobia mirror but a mirror nonetheless. Just because it's easier to impugn someone, everyone, rather than take a deep long look how being a propoganda enabler and how this denial of the proven does nothing but extend questions of cheats dopers. But doing the right thing seems to be out of your wheelhouse.