What happened was that the IOC banned everyone against whom there was some evidence because of the systematic nature of the Russian doping program, and the CAS analyzed those cases independently deeming the evidence insufficient in 28 cases. It's not a matter of right and wrong, but two different approaches which both can be justified. What is shady is the Russian state-sponsored doping program in itself.
Olympics: Russia approves athletes competing under neutral flag, KHLers to play
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ovikovy817
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Well, now I will spent my whole days on american/british/german/and others sites to see if they will talk about that news.
Russia (like it always was) are in 1st place in the medal ranking. Eat that
Russia (like it always was) are in 1st place in the medal ranking. Eat that
Fantomas
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- Aug 7, 2012
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It is too bad they didn't reinstate bobsleigh because of two participants, but nevertheless this is major redemption for Russia and a massive blow to the IOC.
The next stage of this will be fascinating with many athletes filing appeals and Russia already pushing the IOC to approve previously banned athletes to the Korean games.
But I do not think that Russia will get its anthem and flag back for these games, because the decision of the arbitration court was about the role of individual athletes and not about systemic issues.
Regardless the McLaren report and CIA-sponsored Rodchenkov testimony are shown to be inconsistent, unpersuasive and frankly fraudulent. I said months ago that it wouldn't stand up in an independent court of law and it didn't.
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Which doping program again? The one nobody has proof for? Stop using those pityful terms of a bad propagandist. What's "shady"? A shady shed?
There are facts and evidence presented in court. If you have none, you have none. End of story. Go to Rodchenkov, have a party with pills and milkshakes. His showing in court was the weakest show on air. He seems like a very troubled person. Obviously not someone whose words can be taken seriously, let alone as evidence for anything but his mental state.
Somewhat because they(the ones responsible you protect) will end up in court and publically apologize to the athletes the Olympic Movement and Russia.
Maybe we are satisfied then. Only maybe. Until then it is not over and the criminals must face justice.
Fantomas
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Did you see his comments to the press after? They were so prejudiced and bitter that it is impossible to take him seriously.
Bure80
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- Jun 27, 2011
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Well, now I will spent my whole days on american/british/german/and others sites to see if they will talk about that news.
Russia (like it always was) are in 1st place in the medal ranking. Eat that
Russia is 2nd in alltime medal ranking for winter olympics.
Winter Olympic Games all-time medal table 1924-2014 | Statistic
Jussi
Registered User
There's plenty of evidence of the program itself(documents, emails, the huge number of Russian athletes getting caught in re-tests etc.), not so concrete necessarily on individual athletes.
This isn't a criminal case. There is no court.
And for the record, I agree the IOC shouldn't have banned athletes if they didn't have enough evidence. Doing otherwise just earns them trouble.
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ovikovy817
Registered User
I was talking about the 2014 olympics.
and btw, Russia's first olympics were in 54 or 56. So if they don't miss the first ones, they would be 1st in total
ovikovy817
Registered User
You have only Rodchenkov's fantasy to rely. Because CAS said today that it was fantasy
Jussi
Registered User
If you include medals won by Soviet Union, people are gonna start dividing them between currently independent nations.
Jussi
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Macman
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- May 15, 2004
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It did no such thing. The CAS didn't even deal with the question of systemic doping in Russia. It dealt only with individual cases and whether or not there was evidence of doping by those individuals who decided to appeal. But how could there be when most of that evidence was conveniently destroyed?
This is hardly vindication. Russians athletes continue to test positive in numbers that leave every other country in the dust. It's nothing to be proud of.
ovikovy817
Registered User
You need To stop watch cnn and cbc.
Even Ioc and wada Said we suspended russian athletes not because they were positive but because we want To punish a "system" (who exist only in Rodchenkov's mind)
Do you even read their releases? They have said it différent times.
For years and years now russian athletes are tested by UKAD and other international AD. Not rusada. They are tested 2,5 times more than others. I dont even talk about those americans canadians british norwegians and other with their false TUE and who are covered by wada and federations.
Like in cycling
2 months after the british président ended the presidency, a positive antidoping test was annonce for one of the best rider. Who is british. Surprise surprise.
Macman
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Jussi
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Plenty of evidence?LOL How long will you stick to mumblings of a mental guy as evidence?
And again, what about other athletes "getting caught"? Evidence for the US, UK and Canada state doping program? It is according to you. As much as letting them all off the hook is evidence for a corrupt game by WADA and IOC. Why do they let dirty athletes from other countries take their drugs and participate? Are they bribed by the particular states? And thus those states have a state system of bribing WADA officials I assume then by that logic.
The "C" in CAS is for court.
And the criminal case I mean is the organized and planned campaign to corrupt the structures of the olympic movement by several countries. The persons involved should apper in court and answer for their actions. This is very much a criminal case about corruption and state backed attempt on several international organizations in order to illegaly gain control over their structure and actions.
The "trouble" they will earn will be far greatercthan you can imagine. Crossing lines does that.
Jussi
Registered User
Mumblings? How long will you ignore the repeated statements made by other posters here that they have hard drives, documents and emails?
State run doping programs are virtually impossible in Western coutries to do. First of all the governments not caring about sports success to use doping, second being the transparency of government fund use. Public outcry would be massive if tax payer money was used for doping.
And the second bolded part is where you did this:
Fantomas
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Reminder that the IOC has barred a number of Russian athletes from the Olympics without explanation: Viktor Ahn Wants IOC to Explain Why He Can't Go to Olympics
1. First question is this: is mr Rodchenkov even alive? His last interviews are an obvious CIA narration about big bad Putin, Ukraine, Nemtsov etc, and do not even look like his usual "mumblings".
2.State run doping programs are impossible in the West because of their governmental structure, which is way less centralized than in Russia. However "public outcry" about governmental money spent wrong way is not really a threat at all.
2.State run doping programs are impossible in the West because of their governmental structure, which is way less centralized than in Russia. However "public outcry" about governmental money spent wrong way is not really a threat at all.
Fantomas
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Hmmm? He gave video by testimony at the CAS hearing.
I know that in the US almost everything but the military is decentralized. So when Lance Armstrong cheated those activities were confined to his inner entrepreneurial circle. Which means a couple of things:
a) American cheats are harder to catch because fewer people are involved in the scheme
b) It gives Americans plausible deniability whenever someone is caught because their governmental system does not explicitly sanction the activities and corporations skirt blame (laissez faire capitalism is crafty that way)
There was a good article about this here: How a 1978 Law Means America Will Never Have a Russia-Style Doping Scandal: Throwback Thursday
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TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
Russians dope..Americans dope..Canadians dope..etc.
Russia's problem is that the sports infrastructure is still so much associated with the state, so it's easy to make it a political thing. In the West, it's mostly down to private actors..so if there's a scandal those get kicked to the curb (see Armstrong or Bonds) but the official bodies wash their hands off it (also see the Nassar sex molestation scandal).
Russia's problem is that the sports infrastructure is still so much associated with the state, so it's easy to make it a political thing. In the West, it's mostly down to private actors..so if there's a scandal those get kicked to the curb (see Armstrong or Bonds) but the official bodies wash their hands off it (also see the Nassar sex molestation scandal).
Jussi
Registered User
You have no idea for example of the Nordic public mentality. In Finland we throw shitstorms in papers if a politican uses too much government money for taxi rides.
Macman
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- May 15, 2004
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It's the same here. A Canadian cabinet minister once had to repay taxpayers for a $16 glass of orange juice in London.
Critics blast Oda's swanky hotel stay, $16 orange juice
It's H - Hypocricy btw. The shitestorms should go in very different directions with both finnish/nordic and canadian politicians, but they are luring you with scandals over 16 bucks just fine.It's the same here. A Canadian cabinet minister once had to repay taxpayers for a $16 glass of orange juice in London.
Critics blast Oda's swanky hotel stay, $16 orange juice
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