Olympics: Russia approves athletes competing under neutral flag, KHLers to play

[Garl]

Hmmm? He gave video by testimony at the CAS hearing.

"His hands" gave some testimony.

I know that in the US almost everything but the military is decentralized. So when Lance Armstrong cheated those activities were confined to his inner entrepreneurial circle. Which means a couple of things:

a) American cheats are harder to catch because fewer people are involved in the scheme
b) It gives Americans plausible deniability whenever someone is caught because their governmental system does not explicitly sanction the activities and corporations skirt blame (laissez faire capitalism is crafty that way)

There was a good article about this here: How a 1978 Law Means America Will Never Have a Russia-Style Doping Scandal: Throwback Thursday

Yes, I read that article and it's correct. Russia has a very centralized economy, and political structure, so majority of sports(except for club sports like soccer or hockey) are under control of local federations who give out grants to athletes.
USA is differrent in this regard.

 

[Fantomas]

IOC now wants the CAS - an impartial court - to be 'reformed' (in their image).

Bach said an independent panel, chaired by former French sports minister Valérie Fourneyron, would review and make a recommendation on Russian doping cases. He hopes a final decision will be made "in the next couple of days."

Fat chance of an "independent" panel from the same organization that bans athletes without explanation.

 

[Jussi]

IOC now wants the CAS - an impartial court - to be 'reformed' (in their image).





Fat chance of an "independent" panel from the same organization that bans athletes without explanation.

CAS is an interesting entity. There was an episode of The Good Wife where one of the storyliens in that episode was about a CAS case. If the depicted the procedure accurately, it does vary from standard court cases a lot.

I, too, wouldn't trust the IOC in such a case where they're involved, whether guilty or not. There needs to be more transparency and restructuring in the organization itself.

 

[Fantomas]

There needs to be more transparency and restruturing in the organization itself.

There needs to be an Olympic athletes union. Athletes will get justice when they collectively wield power and not because of some abstract notion of organizational transparency.

 

[Jussi]

There needs to be an Olympic athletes union. Athletes will get justice when they collectively wield power and not because of some abstract notion of organizational transparency.

Not sure how one would get in it. Being just a one time Olympian or a current one?

 

[Fantomas]

Maybe a broad coalition of amateur athletes would be better. There seems to be very little interest in the matter of how athletes are treated, particularly the tribulations they go through in the drug-testing process and other legal wranglings.

The Olympics have become all about national and corporate interests and the athletes are getting lost in the shuffle. I would like to see athletes get better legal representation than they do. At this time, it seems the best an aggrieved athlete can do is to appeal to their federation or to write a pleading letter to Thomas Bach. And that is nothing short of totalitarianism.

 

[Fantomas]

Reminder that in 2016, IPC banned the entire Russian paralympic team from the Rio Olympics: Russia's entire team is banned from Rio Paralympics

The athletes had no say on the matter. Even if one accepts accusations of state-sponsored doping, leveling blanket punishments against all Russian paralympians was stunningly thoughtless and callous.

At least the Korea Olympics ban on national symbols attempts some nuance by allowing "clean" athletes (while still putting all of them through legal hell and banning many without explanation).

 

[Fantomas]

One of the athletes banned without explanation. Even if he is allowed to go at the last minute he will be severely shortchanged.

Dozens of athletes signed a letter of support for Bukin, including Scott Hamilton. But most people do not care because they automatically dismiss Russian athletes as cheats and place a lot of faith in international governing bodies to make correct decisions.

 

[Atas2000]

IOC now wants the CAS - an impartial court - to be 'reformed' (in their image).





Fat chance of an "independent" panel from the same organization that bans athletes without explanation.

This a flat out insult to the idea of independent courts.

"We don't like the court's decision. Court must be reformed."

That's quintessential dictatorship.

Getting popcorn to see how our western supporters of this IOC-WADA swamp will defend this. Expecting a lot of doublethink.

 

[ovikovy817]

Томас Бах: «Привилегия получить приглашение на Олимпиаду требует большего, чем просто отсутствие санкций за допинг»

Are you ****ing serious????

Bach: "The privilege to receive an invitation to the Olympics requires more than just the lack of sanctions for doping"

Another proof that is not the doping the problem, but Russia.

On the other hand I can understand, instead of clean athletes from Russia, IOC prefer to have several times caught on doping athletes from other countries. Gatlin, Herrmann, Sundby, ...

 

[Albatros]

No clean athletes from Russia have been excluded.

 

[Fantomas]

No clean athletes from Russia have been excluded.

You have confirmation that Ahn and Bukin are dopers?

 

[Albatros]

No such confirmation is necessary, they weren't controlled correctly and their cleanness beyond reasonable doubt could not be established by other means. Those that were deemed clean were invited.

 

[Fantomas]

No such confirmation is necessary, they weren't controlled correctly and their cleanness beyond reasonable doubt could not be established by other means. Those that were deemed clean were invited.

You see, what was beautiful about the CAS ruling is that they placed the burden of proof on the IOC and not on the athletes. Which is the way this should work.

Unless you prefer the middle ages.

 

[Albatros]

Competing in the Olympics is a privilege, not a right. It's up to the IOC to decide whom they wish to invite. Of course in Russia these athletes should be allowed to compete freely.

 

[Fantomas]

Bach: "The privilege to receive an invitation to the Olympics requires more than just the lack of sanctions for doping"

This is totalitarian language which sends the message that the athletes have no rights and that the ones making the rules are a select committee of powerful men.

 

[Fantomas]

Competing in the Olympics is a privilege, not a right.

And it somehow follows from this that the IOC should have the exclusive legal right to ban athletes without meeting their burden of proof? You are wrong.

There are ethics involved here and they are universal. Athletes are banned because of wrongdoing. When wrongdoing is not demonstrated we have a problem.

That is what privilege means. It does not mean that an unelected body of representatives gets to ban whoever they like with no valid reasons given and no proof provided.

 

[Fantomas]

Russia by the way is appealing this matter to CAS as well. There is very little time left.

 

[Albatros]

Russia was banned for wrongdoing, clean athletes were allowed individually. If someone was not allowed despite being clean, they only have the Russian government and its doping program to blame.

 

[Fantomas]

Russia was banned for wrongdoing, clean athletes were allowed individually. If someone was not allowed despite being clean, they only have the Russian government and its doping program to blame.

Except the connection between those athletes and the matter of doping was not established. Their letters have not even been answered.

The validity of the said privilege is only as good as its ethics.

 

[Fantomas]

And it's amusing that "they're Russian so screw them" qualifies as reasonable with you. But nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[Albatros]

On the contrary it is a special privilege that has been granted to some Russian athletes, normally none of them would be able to participate because their NOC has not been invited/invitation has been withdrawn.

 

[Fantomas]

On the contrary it is a special privilege that has been granted to some Russian athletes, normally none of them would be able to participate because their NOC has not been invited/invitation has been withdrawn.

Your position certainly encapsulates the IOC view in which they see themselves as the totalizing arbitrers of what is just in this case. Unfortunately as you have already admitted, innocence of athletes has been judged irrelevant for the purposes of political scorekeeping and gamesmanship, and guilt by association assumed as adequate explanation.

Your lack of empathy is so extreme you do not even find place in your heart to feel for innocent athletes and paralympians. What else can I say?

 

[Albatros]

No one forced the Russians to establish a systematic doping program, a political decision. Other than the Stepanovs not many athletes have condemned that program.

 

[mouser]

Russia systematically goofed up. Unfortunately the fallout from that means clean/innocent Russian athletes are going to miss their opportunity to compete in the Olympics as a result.