Proposal: Rumours & Proposals Thread | Trade Cloned, Keep Soli | STAY AWAY CHIA

[belair]

Of course it's not surprising. The team is stupid. It's like predicting the sun coming out, or the Oilers not making the playoffs.

And it's an overpay for a goalie that has showed a very brief flash of brilliance before the team inevitably collapsed under its own weight. This team is littered with overpays on players that have shown brief flashes before inevitably reverting to the norm. There was zero reason to do this deal right now while the team is mired in misery.

How long do you think before we're talking about Koskinen the same way we're talking about Talbot? 3 years at that price is a massive risk for a GM that should've been gone at least a month ago if not more.

And more to the point, why didn't he sign Koskinen cheaper coming out of the KHL? Any extension was going to be costly. Are there any Chia contracts we haven't come to regret?

Because there was a market for him--both in North America and Russia?

All contracts have a certain level of risk tied into them. A three year term is moderate. When you look at the comparisons provided, I don't see any more risk with Koskinen than I do with anyone else on that list.

 

[belair]

Russell still has a bloated contract for what he brings.

With Chiarelli, it's ALWAYS damned if you do, because he damns the team every time he does something.

Kris Russell made a $900k extra on his previous deal. It may be bloated in your unrealistic perspective. But in reality it was market value when you look at every other comparable deal signed in that period.

Same posters ignoring the same facts. Just admit you don't know what a market is, then we'll move on.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Because there was a market for him--both in North America and Russia?

All contracts have a certain level of risk tied into them. A three year term is moderate. When you look at the comparisons provided, I don't see any more risk with Koskinen than I do with anyone else on that list.

A three year team is what Kassian got and boy aren't we all happy that he did? Three years is a very long time. It's not that moderate. McDavid may be long gone before Koskinen's contract expires.

The fact that this GM is still allowed to make long term moves for this team is completely laughable. I'm not even sure they're serious about firing this guy. There was not a single reason to make this deal right now other than a GM shitting his pants that he's going to get fired. Might as well lob a few more grenades at the organization.

 

[The Nuge]

Howard is over the hill and there is a reason Detroit doesn't make him their #1, Miller is old too and can't be a #1, and Elliot has had an awful showing the last 3 years. I still take Koskinen over those.

How is Howard over the hill or not their #1?

They’re still all as good or better even if you’d rather our guy.

And the legit starters this year will likely all sign within 1-2 million of what Koskinen just got. I’d much rather have Bob at like 6-6.5

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Kris Russell made a $900k extra on his previous deal. It may be bloated in your unrealistic perspective. But in reality it was market value when you look at every other comparable deal signed in that period.

Same posters ignoring the same facts. Just admit you don't know what a market is, then we'll move on.

Ah yes, market value. Something that the Oilers always manage to pay above for some weird reason. I remember Kris Russell kindly pricing himself out of the market before we signed him because nobody was stupid enough to pay him more than the 3.1 million for one year that we gave him.

Again, why do this deal now? He sure isn't playing like a 4.5 million dollar goalie the past month or so.

 

[t0nedeff]

How is Howard over the hill or not their #1?

They’re still all as good or better even if you’d rather our guy.

And the legit starters this year will likely all sign within 1-2 million of what Koskinen just got. I’d much rather have Bob at like 6-6.5

Howard is 34 and Bob isn't signing for 6.5 and especially not in Edmonton.

 

[belair]

Correct me if I'm wrong, almost every single goalie you mentioned on that list, besides maybe Darling, had over 100 games under their belts before they were given money. In terms of goalies trying to grab the starting position, that is multiple seasons worth of games. We've given Koskinen 4.5 million based of 27.

Mikko Koskinen played in Russia. Like it or not, that counts as experience because we are bidding against those teams as well. It's certainly valid that these other goaltenders have NHL experience, but all of them weren't proven starting goaltenders.

Teams will draw a line in the sand somewhere where there's enough certainty the player can get the job done. There are plenty of examples where NHL experience wasn't a good enough sample. The fact is you're also bringing this goaltender behind a new team. Scott Darling will show you it's not always an easy transition.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Mikko Koskinen played in Russia. Like it or not, that counts as experience because we are bidding against those teams as well. It's certainly valid that these other goaltenders have NHL experience, but all of them weren't proven starting goaltenders.

Teams will draw a line in the sand somewhere where there's enough certainty the player can get the job done. There are plenty of examples where NHL experience wasn't a good enough sample. The fact is you're also bringing this goaltender behind a new team. Scott Darling will show you it's not always an easy transition.

You know you follow the Oilers, right?

 

[Joey Moss]

I really want to hear Chia's explanation on this contract. What leverage Koskinen had to get this deal..

A guy like Carter Hutton got 2.75 for the same term last year and showed more than Koskinen. There's goalies like Dubnyk and Bishop with similar cap hits (albeit both had more term).

Goalies just don't have leverage that players do because there's 31 starters in the league. He wouldn't get 3M anywhere else and I'd be shocked if anyone would've given him 3 years.

It's one of his worst contracts yet at a horrible time.

 

[The Nuge]

Howard is 34 and Bob isn't signing for 6.5 and especially not in Edmonton.

Who cares if Howard is 34? He’s still a legit #1, and it’s arguably a good thing, because it means you can keep the term short. I’d rather not gamble when it comes to goaltending. You can gamble to an extent with your backup (Colorado hoping Grubauer can step up and become a starter for instance), but you better have a goalie who can play. We’re gambling with our starter, and doing it with term too. Koskinen’s salary, and all our wasted capspace is likely going to mean we end up with a Montoya caliber goalie instead of someone who can bail us out when Koskinen struggles.

Either go cheap with your goalies and hope one steps up, and the extra skater makes a difference, or sign a legit starter. Don’t sign a backup to starter money. There’s a reason Lehner was a good gamble, and Darling was a bad gamble.

 

[belair]

You know you follow the Oilers, right?

You know that the examples I provided were ridiculously similar to the contract we're currently discussing, right?

 

[McBigYak]

Mikko Koskinen played in Russia. Like it or not, that counts as experience because we are bidding against those teams as well. It's certainly valid that these other goaltenders have NHL experience, but all of them weren't proven starting goaltenders.

Teams will draw a line in the sand somewhere where there's enough certainty the player can get the job done. There are plenty of examples where NHL experience wasn't a good enough sample. The fact is you're also bringing this goaltender behind a new team. Scott Darling will show you it's not always an easy transition.

The only thing that Scott Darling shows me is how much of a disaster this could be.

Wait until March to do this. I mean it's not f***ing hard. If he puts in a solid 30 games over the remaining, then sure.

Please, just can somebody try and justify the timing of this? Because I just can't find a single reason to. Was he going to bolt back to Russia mid season?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You know that the examples I provided were ridiculously similar to the contract we're currently discussing, right?

How many of them had 30 games of NHL experience?

What was the rush to sign this contract?

 

[thadd]

Kris Russell made a $900k extra on his previous deal. It may be bloated in your unrealistic perspective. But in reality it was market value when you look at every other comparable deal signed in that period.

Same posters ignoring the same facts. Just admit you don't know what a market is, then we'll move on.

Russel is a damn fine signing. He's the best shot blocker in the entire world and he'll be 33 at the end of his contract. He's even proven to have decent offensive upside on the odd game that he actually gets to play on the left side.

Dude takes so much punishment. Takes some nasty hits in the corners for us in a regular basis and the dude is under 6"0 and under 180 pounds yet he keeps coming and is a very consistent player. He has come exactly as advertised. People have something against him because fans were hoping that Chia was going to get a different top 4 d-man in the off-season that Russell was set to become a free agent. Problem was that there were very few UFA options and we didn't have the assets to trade for something better for Russell.

He's not the d-man of our dreams, but he's more than good enough to play for the Oilers given what we've got. Just wait till Sekera has been back in the NHL for 3 games. Can't wait to hear people say "why isn't he still on the LTIR MY GAWD he can't skate!"

A three year team is what Kassian got and boy aren't we all happy that he did? Three years is a very long time. It's not that moderate. McDavid may be long gone before Koskinen's contract expires.

Kassian has worked his ass off for us, kills penalties, gets in the opposition's face and drops the gloves whenever needed. Offensively he's totally snakebitten and should probably have 10 more goals on the year than he already has. 2M is not a bad price to pay especially considering how durable he's been with the Oilers.

If your first choice is to nitpick over players making under 3M per season in a league with a salary cap of over 80M, your team should be in the conversation to be a favorite to win the cup.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Kassian has worked his ass off for us, kills penalties, gets in the opposition's face and drops the gloves whenever needed. Offensively he's totally snakebitten and should probably have 10 more goals on the year than he already has. 2M is not a bad price to pay especially considering how durable he's been with the Oilers.

If your first choice is to nitpick over players making under 3M per season in a league with a salary cap of over 80M, your team should be in the conversation to be a favorite to win the cup.

Kassian worked his ass off to get his extension. I've seen no sign of 16-17 Kassian the past year and a half.

He's not snakebitten. He's just not that great of a player.

And there's a lot to nitpick over this team. It's almost as if this team's season was defeated by 1000 little mistakes....

 

[belair]

How many of them had 30 games of NHL experience?

What was the rush to sign this contract?

Is it just NHL experience that teams value going into negotiations? These were all NHL backups. How many of them had experience as NHL starting goaltenders?

As for why now? They made a decision. They aren't dicking Talbot around. They're giving Koskinen the green light. Find a buyer on Talbot and move forward. I'm questioning why people seem to think this was going to be cheaper the longer we waited.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Is it just NHL experience that teams value going into negotiations? These were all NHL backups? How many of them had experience as NHL starting goaltenders?

As for why now? They made a decision. They aren't dicking Talbot around. They're giving Koskinen the green light. Find a buyer on Talbot and move forward. I'm questioning why people seem to think this was going to be cheaper the longer we waited.

I think there's a lot of things teams value when going into extensions. What THIS team values I honestly couldn't tell you. Maybe Talbot's last name doesn't have enough syllables. Koskinen hasn't been established as a consistent starter. He's been better than Talbot but that's not saying much for either goalie and he's been dreadful since the start of December.

They made a decision that could've waited until they gathered more evidence that this is the guy to hitch your wagon to. And three years? They just named this guy the starter for the next three seasons. If he sucks (and there's a solid chance of that), then we're stuck with him.

And good luck finding a good buyer for Talbot. Is Chiarelli playing poker with his cards facing the other players?

 

[belair]

I think there's a lot of things teams value when going into extensions. What THIS team values I honestly couldn't tell you. Maybe Talbot's last name doesn't have enough syllables. Koskinen hasn't been established as a consistent starter. He's been better than Talbot but that's not saying much for either goalie and he's been dreadful since the start of December.

They made a decision that could've waited until they gathered more evidence that this is the guy to hitch your wagon to. And three years? They just named this guy the starter for the next three seasons. If he sucks (and there's a solid chance of that), then we're stuck with him.

And good luck finding a good buyer for Talbot. Is Chiarelli playing poker with his cards facing the other players?

Are you just realizing now that Cam Talbot has been on the market?

 

[CycloneSweep]

Is it just NHL experience that teams value going into negotiations? These were all NHL backups? How many of them had experience as NHL starting goaltenders?

As for why now? They made a decision. They aren't dicking Talbot around. They're giving Koskinen the green light. Find a buyer on Talbot and move forward. I'm questioning why people seem to think this was going to be cheaper the longer we waited.

I think we paid too much but the timing was important.

A) Talbot's getting traded soon. So the team needs to make sure they have a starter signed for next season and the UFA market isn't great for it this year outside of Bobrovsky that we can in no way afford

B) Trade Talbot, Koskinen plays well to great and Koskinen decides to try free agency. Team didn't seem in a rush to sign him and after his good year on a bad team he wants to see if a good team wants him.

The longer we waited the less of a chance we had to keep him.

We definitely paid more than we should due to risk but letting him wait and get curious about other teams is even riskier.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Are you just realizing now that Cam Talbot has been on the market?

Obviously he's been on the market for awhile. And no takers. Can't wait to offload him for a 5th and some team's C-level prospect.

You ever notice that a lot of GMs don't show their cards?

 

[McDNicks17]

I really want to hear Chia's explanation on this contract. What leverage Koskinen had to get this deal..

A guy like Carter Hutton got 2.75 for the same term last year and showed more than Koskinen. There's goalies like Dubnyk and Bishop with similar cap hits (albeit both had more term).

Goalies just don't have leverage that players do because there's 31 starters in the league. He wouldn't get 3M anywhere else and I'd be shocked if anyone would've given him 3 years.

It's one of his worst contracts yet at a horrible time.

You're comparing it to contracts signed years ago.

Dubnyk signed for 6.1% of the cap. Bishop signed for 6.7%.

Koskinen just signed for 5.4% assuming the cap goes up to the reported $83M.

That's between Talbot($4.16M) and Raanta($4.25M)'s 5.7% and Murray($3.75M)'s 5.1% for the 25th highest goalie in the league.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

wasn't there something about Florida being interested in Talbot.

he'd do well there what with the reffing and orange juice.....convertibles.....

 

[T-Funk]

You're comparing it to contracts signed years ago.

Dubnyk signed for 6.1% of the cap. Bishop signed for 6.7%.

Koskinen just signed for 5.4% assuming the cap goes up to the reported $83M.

That's between Talbot($4.16M) and Raanta($4.25M)'s 5.7% and Murray($3.75M)'s 5.1% for the 25th highest goalie in the league.

He would soon set a Minnesota franchise record with 38-straight starts following his acquisition, posting a 27–9–2 with a 1.78 GAA, .936 save percentage and five shutouts. He also was the winning goaltender in 11 of the Wild's 12 consecutive road wins, from February 18 to April 9, that tied the 2005–06 Detroit Red Wings for the longest such run in League history. Dubnyk and the Wild ultimately clinched a playoff berth, and on April 20, Dubnyk recorded his first career playoff shutout, blanking the St. Louis Blues in a 3–0 Wild victory in the Western Conference Quarterfinals. On April 24, Dubnyk was shortlisted as a finalist for the Vezina Trophy, along with Montreal's Carey Price and Nashville's Pekka Rinne for goaltender of the year honours.[18]
At the NHL Awards Show on June 24, 2015, Dubnyk was awarded the Bill Masterton Trophy for helping lead the Wild to the playoffs while simultaneously resurrecting his career. He also finished third in Vezina Trophy voting and fourth in Hart Memorial Trophy voting, the latter as League MVP. While he was named in the NHL Second All-Star Team.[19]

Thats the run Dubnyk signed after.

 

[McDNicks17]

He would soon set a Minnesota franchise record with 38-straight starts following his acquisition, posting a 27–9–2 with a 1.78 GAA, .936 save percentage and five shutouts. He also was the winning goaltender in 11 of the Wild's 12 consecutive road wins, from February 18 to April 9, that tied the 2005–06 Detroit Red Wings for the longest such run in League history. Dubnyk and the Wild ultimately clinched a playoff berth, and on April 20, Dubnyk recorded his first career playoff shutout, blanking the St. Louis Blues in a 3–0 Wild victory in the Western Conference Quarterfinals. On April 24, Dubnyk was shortlisted as a finalist for the Vezina Trophy, along with Montreal's Carey Price and Nashville's Pekka Rinne for goaltender of the year honours.[18]
At the NHL Awards Show on June 24, 2015, Dubnyk was awarded the Bill Masterton Trophy for helping lead the Wild to the playoffs while simultaneously resurrecting his career. He also finished third in Vezina Trophy voting and fourth in Hart Memorial Trophy voting, the latter as League MVP. While he was named in the NHL Second All-Star Team.[19]

Thats the run Dubnyk signed after.

Behind Minnesota's defense.

Dubnyk has come close to leading the league in xSV% every season since he's been there. He has an extremely easy workload relative to the rest of the league.

Just like this season. Leads the league in xSV%, yet has a 01.00 lower SV% at 5v5 than Koskinen.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Not to mention Howard is over the hill and Lehner will 100% be resigned by the Islanders. No way he makes it to FA.

Over the hill? You mean the goalie w/ better stats then Koska and is headed to the All Star game?