Rumor: Rumours and Proposals PART6 for 2016/2017-Complaint window 1 is now open

[McVirginOil]

Stauffer said Oilers are looking for a trade and retention in Fayne to fetch them a veteran RW, only way I see this work is if this RW is at the final year of their contract, here are some guesses as to who this might be:

- Jarome Iginla
- Drew Stafford
- Patrick Sharp
- Justin Williams (my personal pick)
- Brian Gionta

If not on the final year, I can see Atkinson, Pominville, Filpulla, Burrows.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I did discredit his argument. Thanks for noticing.

It is very clear that the Oilers value inexperience over experience and therefore it limited the opportunities for Versteeg on this team.

Perplexing how that was left out of GK's narrative.

Check the Flames wingers. I apologize if it makes you go blind.

 

[Faelko]

Fayne for an overpaid top 9 winger makes sense. I would assume it would be for a player with the same 2 year term left.

Bozak fits the bill. Right handed, versatile player who can play a shutdown role or in the top 6 for spells. Two years left and he makes more than Fayne. Have the Leafs young centers played well enough that they would want to move Bozak?

I thought Bozak was going to be used as a safety blanket for Matthews? I saw one TO lineup where he was their #1 and Matthews #3.

 

[McOvechking]

That's up for debate, but I otherwise agree. I would make a case for RNH having more tools than JP.

RNH certainly has the IQ edge, but I'd argue Pulju is already a superior skater. He's definitely got a better shot, and stick-handling is close. And Pulju is much bigger which is always a bonus.

 

[Canovin]

He didn't "recover". People jumped to ridiculous conclusions about his entire career 54 games in. Those people who suddenly changed their tune and realized it might not be wise to judge an 18 year old on his first few NHL games were the ones who "recovered".

Did you follow his rookie year? He look pretty bad. He did turn it around tho. Don't expect that with every young players

 

[Young Lions*]

Referring to those who don't find anything wrong with Puljujarvi getting a taste of NHL action as "yes men" isn't brave, constructive or intellectually honest. It's a singular roster decision in isolation that means very little.

However, it's the way you roll as evidenced later in your post.

The only way it doesn't look silly is if you look at it in isolation. But that's not how these things work. There's a process at work.

Again, an actual NHL GM said it's easy to do so; the waiver wire in previous years has proven that to be true. Are you going to claim he and history are wrong?

I'll believe it when I actually see it. Again, I don't know why you wouldn't insulate yourself from that eventuality now instead of hoping your needs and the market align later.

He has? Which ones? Gryba was depth; Maroon was depth. Kassian depth. How did he whiff on those?

PAP, Pulk, and now Versteeg to name just three in the last two days.

They haven't. In fact, Chiarelli was very clear that he felt the depth was such that they didn't need a Versteeg right now. With multiple options (Puljujarvi, Pitlick, Pakarinen, Slepyshev) who look to be about replacement level in the bottom six today, it would make sense to try those players first if you felt that way.

Rolling the dice on a bunch of unknowns (while also re-jigging the roster to play guys out of position) is the illusion of depth. And for a team that should be pushing hard for the playoffs it sur elooks like, well, they aren't.

I would argue Versteeg didn't earn anything here either. He was riding off last year's point totals, and wasn't clearly a better option based on his play than what was already here. More experienced? Sure. Better? That's to be seen.

At least there's a track record there. PJ looked bad and has no track record to point to. And now we don't really have a fallback.

There are two things to unpack here: whether the few loud voices are right merely because they're loud, and whether this is the same strategy. I'd say neither is correct.

Great analysis.

 

[guymez]

And? If he's playing in the NHL, I guess the needle would lean toward "NHL player". But he's played zero games, so those guaranteeing and NHL career are just as silly as those who say he won't be.

The point is, the impatience is silly.

There is a 3rd option....like suggesting that there needs to be a bigger sample size before a determination is made.

So no...suggesting that Caggiula isnt yet an NHL player is not equally silly to suggesting that he is an NHL player.

 

[Faelko]

I did discredit his argument. Thanks for noticing.

It is very clear that the Oilers value inexperience over experience and therefore it limited the opportunities for Versteeg on this team.

Perplexing how that was left out of GK's narrative.

C'mon. The Oilers don't "value" inexperience...that's just silly.

It's obvious they wanted Pulj to get a few actual games in to see where he was at development wise and rolled the dice that no one would poach Versteeg...they were wrong unfortunately but life goes on.

 

[dangerb0y]

What?

He will be playing first line most likely in calgary.

i hope he does play top line... the more minutes he plays the better. better for the oilers! put him on the powerplay with johnny hockey to pad his stats career some more. thats apparently what he's now playing for.
full respect for his playoff experience and contribution to winning a cup... but the game is passing him by... he's just plugging a hole in a leaky boat... there will always be someone bigger, faster, and younger just dying for an opportunity to play his style of game. good luck to him in calgary.

 

[guymez]

Well, we're not convinced that he's not. You somehow seem to be. I just think we let him play, see how it goes, then reach conclusions.

Really?
So how exactly did you arrive at this conclusion?

 

[Seachd]

There is a 3rd option....like suggesting that there needs to be a bigger sample size before a determination is made.

So no...suggesting that Caggiula isnt yet an NHL player is not equally silly to suggesting that he is an NHL player.

That's no what I said. I said nothing about "suggesting". Obviously time is needed, that's what I'm saying.

You're arguing against a sample size of 3 games like it means something either way.

 

[ujju2]

RNH certainly has the IQ edge, but I'd argue Pulju is already a superior skater. He's definitely got a better shot, and stick-handling is close. And Pulju is much bigger which is always a bonus.

RNH:
Defensive play
IQ
Passing (JP's quite good too though)
Ability to play tough minutes (as of now, JP might get there in a few years)

JP:
Shot (but RNH has an underrated shot and needs to use it more)
Size (Needs to start using it a bit more)

Even (or very close)
Skating
Stick-handling (but Pulju needs to figure out the smaller ice surface. Too many turnovers as of now.)

This is how I have them. Any changes you would suggest?

 

[Jet Walters]

I thought Bozak was going to be used as a safety blanket for Matthews? I saw one TO lineup where he was their #1 and Matthews #3.

I have no idea as to his availability, but he fits the mold of what the Oilers need and the Leafs have the weakest RHD depth in the league. Plus their contracts have the same term and a cap hit not so far apart. If their is a trade on the table I would assume it's for a forward who can at least help a PK that's been depleted by the loss of Hendricks and Pakarinen.

 

[Seachd]

Did you follow his rookie year? He look pretty bad. He did turn it around tho. Don't expect that with every young players

Yes, we was fine. He was on a 36 point pace with hiccups that everyone knows will happen with young players.

What exactly are your requirements for an 18 year old to have a successful rookie season? McDavid or nothing?

 

[guymez]

C'mon. The Oilers don't "value" inexperience...that's just silly.

It's obvious they wanted Pulj to get a few actual games in to see where he was at development wise and rolled the dice that no one would poach Versteeg...they were wrong unfortunately but life goes on.

Silly? Aside form the defence RW is the weakest part of this team.

The depth is as follows....

Eberle
Draisaitl (20 year old player playing out of position)
Puljujarvi (an 18 year old that has virtually no experience on NA ice)
Zack Kassian (not good enough to be a consistent top 9 player)
Tyler Pitlick ( a 24 year old career AHL'er)

Perplexing how so many posters are fine with this.

 

[ujju2]

Really?
So how exactly did you arrive at this conclusion?

All I've seen from you today is negativity about Caggiula at 3C. So it's a fair conclusion that you don't believe he'll be successful there.

 

[Blitzago*]

There is a 3rd option....like suggesting that there needs to be a bigger sample size before a determination is made.

So no...suggesting that Caggiula isnt yet an NHL player is not equally silly to suggesting that he is an NHL player.

Cagguila showed much better than Versteeg in the Pre-season, and before you say veterans take it off, Versteeg was here on a PTO so he would of been giving it his all.

 

[joestevens29]

I'm thinking as a whole there are a few teams that have guys they want to move in terms of vets.

Not the best move, but does Fayne for Laich make sense?

 

[Ninety7]

Silly? Aside form the defence RW is the weakest part of this team.

The depth is as follows....

Eberle
Draisaitl (20 year old player playing out of position)
Puljujarvi (an 18 year old that has virtually no experience on NA ice)
Zack Kassian (not good enough to be a consistent top 9 player)
Tyler Pitlick ( a 24 year old career AHL'er)

Perplexing how so many posters are fine with this.

That's pretty scary to me

 

[guymez]

All I've seen from you today is negativity about Caggiula at 3C. So it's a fair conclusion that you don't believe he'll be successful there.

Really? Thats all you have seen? Funny because I havent made one negative post about Cagguila so I have no idea what you are refering to.

Please do quote something that I posted so I can respond or stop making stuff up.

 

[joestevens29]

Cagguila showed much better than Versteeg in the Pre-season, and before you say veterans take it off, Versteeg was here on a PTO so he would of been giving it his all.

Wasn't Versteeg hurt most of pre-season?

 

[Wadewilson]

Fayne for Pap?

 

[ujju2]

Silly? Aside form the defence RW is the weakest part of this team.

The depth is as follows....

Eberle
Draisaitl (20 year old player playing out of position)
Puljujarvi (an 18 year old that has virtually no experience on NA ice)
Zack Kassian (not good enough to be a consistent top 9 player)
Tyler Pitlick ( a 24 year old career AHL'er)

Perplexing how so many posters are fine with this.

How did you reach this conclusion? BTW that's 5 players. Eberle is a fine 1RW. No reason to believe Drai can't get the job done at 2RW. Pulju is the wild card here, but if he doesn't work out this season, it's not hard to find a third line right winger. Kassian and Pitlick are competing for the 4th line spot. Both would be great 4th liners. So there you have it.

 

[Mr Positive]

this is a mark against Chia since it does show that he didn't have a good handle on the Versteeg situation. He should have given Versteeg an ultimatum to sign before the chance to take PAP went away. I can't know what's going on behind the scenes exactly, and I don't want to impose an unfair hindsight analysis on him, but there must have been a better way to handle this.

However, it is not a huge mark against. The grande scheme of things he's created a very good team and it is a very deep one too, even at forward. I don't think that any teams out there would shy from giving Slepyshev a shot, even on the third line. Same for JP.

Also, I am in favour of putting JP in the AHL, but that doesn't mean he's doomed to fail. I think most teams in the league would put him in the NHL right away. The Drai and JP situations are only comparable out of context. JP has a better D behind him than Drai had. He has a better coach. It's easier to adjust on the wing than C. If we start the year with a third line of Maroon-Caggiula-Puljujarvi, I would be more psyched to see what they can do than worried about them tripping over themselves because they are just too inexperienced. Chia just said he would look to address problems mid seasons to adjust, so if things don't work out it can be quickly repaired.

 

[guymez]

That's pretty scary to me

Scary indeed. But apparently many are just fine with this.

That's scary too.