Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Y'all Got Any Good Goalies?

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

That's the opinion of the dozens of Hockey Men voters that saw fit to have him finish 5th in Norris voting last year.

You're an eye tester that thought a guy that played 26 minutes got demoted. Forgive me for assuming you have f***in glaucoma or something.

Look I think Bouchard is great but Makar is still a tier above him. That's no slight to Bouchard, that's just a testament to Makar. MacKinnon gets a lot of attention in Colorado but I think Makar singlehandedly elevated him from good to elite.

My gripes with Bouchard aren't the defensive lapses that most defensemen make. It's the egregious bad passes in our own zone or sometimes a lack of effort (I think back to that Leafs game as a prime example). No I don't expect him to be perfect every time he steps onto the ice but you can almost always bet if there's a terrible turnover that leads to a goal against Bouchard is the d-man who did it.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Analytics generally show process and long term impact. Bouchard tilts the ice in the right direction when he's on the ice. The only thing stopping Bouchard from being considered in the Hughes-Makar level is he tends to make the "big mistake" too often, especially this season and on national TV. That doesn't show up in as much analytics because he genuinely plays well 85-90% of the time.

But that 10% of the time where he's making the big mistake is the reason he's left off Team Canada, you need a level of reliability in a short tournament. That "big mistake" doesn't have major impact in an 82 game season, but in a short tournament it can be the difference between Gold and 3rd/4th place.

I'm pretty sure Bouchard was left off team Canada because of Doug Armstrong bias, not because of ability. Like this would make sense if Bouchard was left off for, say, Dobson or something, but that's not what happened. I mean come on, Colton Parayko is one of the worst defensemen in the NHL at the moment in terms of chance prevention/goal prevention and still made the team. The "big mistake" that Bouchard makes is just Parayko's normal gameplay. Pietrangelo is obviously nowhere near as bad as Parayko, but certainly isn't best on best caliber anymore either and only made it because he was Armstrong's first ever draft pick.

 

[Davo Ikinzom]

I'm tired of Bouchard being held to a higher standard than Hughes or Makar. They are just as bad or worse defensively.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

People think their "eye test" while knocking back beer and wings is reliable, hilarious

Not everyone is an alcoholic

 

[OilerTyler]

I'm tired of Bouchard being held to a higher standard than Hughes or Makar. They are just as bad or worse defensively.

I think Bouchard is responsible for that narrative himself because the defensive mistakes he makes tend to be super blatant and mind numbingly bad. His lowlight reel would probably put the others to shame.

 

[oXo Cube]

Hockey Canada has a very long history of avoiding event defenders like Bouchard in favour of more quiet minute muncher types like Parayko. Their results with this approach have been mixed but it wasn't a surprise IMO.

Leaving Hyman off the team was simply a mistake made by a management group blinded by shortsightedness.

 

[Shanahanigans]

I'm tired of Bouchard being held to a higher standard than Hughes or Makar. They are just as bad or worse defensively.

A lot of people on this site hate the Oilers. They continue to underrate not just Bouchard, but our entire team. Hyman is a product of Mcdavid, Draisaitl, who has the second most points in the last 8 years and is the 5th fastest Euro player to 900 points, as well as having the 4th highest playoff PPG after 99, 66, and 97, is a "Mcdavid and PP merchant." Its fine, a lot of these fans teams don't make the playoffs or make it out of the first round. We know how good our players are, we don't need outside validation from outside fans or media.

 

[Canovin]

I bet it would surprise a lot of people too that Makar away from MacKinnon is orders of magnitude worse than Bouchard away from McDavid

Not true. We've seen Makar carrying the Avs on this own when Mackinnon was away far more often. Bouchard has yet to do that.

There's really no comparison between Makar and Bouchard

 

[CanadasTeam99]

Analytics generally show process and long term impact. Bouchard tilts the ice in the right direction when he's on the ice. The only thing stopping Bouchard from being considered in the Hughes-Makar level is he tends to make the "big mistake" too often, especially this season and on national TV. That doesn't show up in as much analytics because he genuinely plays well 85-90% of the time.

But that 10% of the time where he's making the big mistake is the reason he's left off Team Canada, you need a level of reliability in a short tournament. That "big mistake" doesn't have major impact in an 82 game season, but in a short tournament it can be the difference between Gold and 3rd/4th place.

This is basically what some of us say about goaltending. The "big mistakes" can cost you in a playoff series.

I agree with everybody about Bouch. He does tend to make those big mistakes, but the guy also tilts the ice.

 

[oXo Cube]

This is basically what some of us say about goaltending. The "big mistakes" can cost you in a playoff series.

I agree with everybody about Bouch. He does tend to make those big mistakes, but the guy also tilts the ice.

The thing with Bouchard is that the statistics don't even need to be 'advanced.'

The Oilers score way more goals than they allow when he's on the ice. Isn't that the literal objective?

 

[stewy04]

Colorado paid a fortune for him.

And he has a really bad injury history

 

[Davo Ikinzom]

The thing with Bouchard is that the statistics don't even need to be 'advanced.'

The Oilers score way more goals than they allow when he's on the ice. Isn't that the literal objective?

He kills it in the playoffs too.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

If Avs called the Oilers asking for Bouchard for Makar, people would say no? Quite a take by some posters lol.

Did you just make that up in your head ?

Perfectly said.

Can you imagine the whinging from some of the knuckle draggier parts of the fanbase if our #1 defenceman was a 5'10 stringbean that constantly looks like he's on the verge of tears and has a grand total of FIVE hits on the season?

I bet it would f***in STUN some people to learn that Bouchard is tied for the team lead in blocks this year, too.

5 hits this year?

That’s a wet dream for knob

 

[McHelpus]

Did you just make that up in your head ?

Are you not reading earlier posts? I'm comparing Bouchard to Makar.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Hockey Canada has a very long history of avoiding event defenders like Bouchard in favour of more quiet minute muncher types like Parayko. Their results with this approach have been mixed but it wasn't a surprise IMO.

Leaving Hyman off the team was simply a mistake made by a management group blinded by shortsightedness.

Parayko is only there because of who put team Canada together.

He’s worse than Bouchard at both ends of the rink.

Some fans here would prefer 6 Kris Russell’s, guys who just throw it off the glass and out all game rather than try to make plays with the puck

Are you not reading earlier posts? I'm comparing Bouchard to Makar.

I did, and no one said they wouldn’t trade if given the choice.

 

[Canovin]

Parayko is only there because of who put team Canada together.

He’s worse than Bouchard at both ends of the rink.

Some fans here would prefer 6 Kris Russell’s, guys who just throw it off the glass and out all game rather than try to make plays with the puck


I did, and no one said they wouldn’t trade if given the choice.

Parayko has played on the big stage before. Team Canada must have valued his experienced. Oilers get a chance to see McDavid with Parayko. (potential trade)

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Not true. We've seen Makar carrying the Avs on this own when Mackinnon was away far more often. Bouchard has yet to do that.

There's really no comparison between Makar and Bouchard

When have we seen that? Because MacKinnon only missed time when the Avs were a superteam, arguably the best one we've seen in the 2000's.

The numbers, particularly last year and this year, are not kind to Makar away from MacKinnon

Parayko is only there because of who put team Canada together.

He’s worse than Bouchard at both ends of the rink.

Some fans here would prefer 6 Kris Russell’s, guys who just throw it off the glass and out all game rather than try to make plays with the puck


I did, and no one said they wouldn’t trade if given the choice.

I actually get Parayko. Defensively he's been very good this year - abysmal offensively - but as a PK option getting 14 minutes a night, I get it.

The guy that doesn't make sense is Pietrangelo. He's been awful. Miles worse than Bouchard. The Knights are downright leaky defensively.

 

[McHelpus]

I did, and no one said they wouldn’t trade if given the choice.

Then that's the answer as to who the better player is.

 

[Canovin]

When have we seen that? Because MacKinnon only missed time when the Avs were a superteam, arguably the best one we've seen in the 2000's.

The numbers, particularly last year and this year, are not kind to Makar away from MacKinnon


I actually get Parayko. Defensively he's been very good this year - abysmal offensively - but as a PK option getting 14 minutes a night, I get it.

The guy that doesn't make sense is Pietrangelo. He's been awful. Miles worse than Bouchard. The Knights are downright leaky defensively.

Part of the big reason Avs were a super team is because Makar was the best Avs player those years. Mackinnon didn't retake the reign until 2 seasons ago.

Mackinnon did miss games. Makar was taking over games on his own.

Do we ever see Bouchard taking over games and being better than Drai in the absence of McDavid?

Heck, can we even say Bouchard is better Rantanen? Makar is straight up better than Rantanen

One of the reason I would leave Bouchard off Team Canada is he could be a little complacent at times.

 

[TheNumber4]

I thought we were trading for Karlsson, not Makar.

We better be if want a Cup.

 

[TheNumber4]

Bouchard Elite. Bouchard currently struggling. That’s the story.

 

[McAsuno]

The analytics just don't make sense on this guy. Even last night he turned the puck over too much, it just didn't end up in our net.

He played poor and got demoted.

Even in the Ozone in the 3rd when he was driving the net with the puck on his stick in the slot he was too slow and got caught from behind. (it's nit picking, but a true elite offensive guy finishes that play)

For a guy who played poor and got demoted, why the f*** is his TOI the highest with 25:52 then?
How about that defensive play of his in OT that negated a 2 on 1? I guess people just need a new scapegoat since they can't yap about Nurse. Good grief.

 

[Vagabond]

I just have to say that I'm super impressed with Nurse this season. I was a massive critic. He deserves mad props for turning his game around. He's been unbelievable in my opinion. He started off poor for the 1st 2 weeks but so did our goaltending and lack of offense.

Great work Nurse! Keep it going!

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

When have we seen that? Because MacKinnon only missed time when the Avs were a superteam, arguably the best one we've seen in the 2000's.

The numbers, particularly last year and this year, are not kind to Makar away from MacKinnon


I actually get Parayko. Defensively he's been very good this year - abysmal offensively - but as a PK option getting 14 minutes a night, I get it.

The guy that doesn't make sense is Pietrangelo. He's been awful. Miles worse than Bouchard. The Knights are downright leaky defensively.

Are you looking at 2023-24 stats for Parayko? He's been arguably the single worst defensive player in the NHL this season both analytically (fighting with Erik Karlsson, Zack Werenski, and the Ferraro-Ceci pairing for worst xGA in the NHL and not far off from the worst HDCA either) and in terms of traditional stats (second last in the entire NHL for actual goals against, ahead of only Marcus Petterson) and in terms of eye test (just watch any of his games lol).

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Part of the big reason Avs were a super team is because Makar was the best Avs player those years. Mackinnon didn't retake the reign until 2 seasons ago.

Mackinnon did miss games. Makar was taking over games on his own.

Do we ever see Bouchard taking over games and being better than Drai in the absence of McDavid?

Heck, can we even say Bouchard is better Rantanen? Makar is straight up better than Rantanen

One of the reason I would leave Bouchard off Team Canada is he could be a little complacent at times.

Rantanen is what people think Draisaitl is. Purely a product of the other two.

Bouchard was better than Draisaitl for huge stretches last year, don't let the recency bias get to you too badly.