Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Y'all Got Any Good Goalies?

[TheNumber4]

Are you looking at 2023-24 stats for Parayko? He's been arguably the single worst defensive player in the NHL this season both analytically (fighting with Erik Karlsson, Zack Werenski, and the Ferraro-Ceci pairing for worst xGA in the NHL and not far off from the worst HDCA either) and in terms of traditional stats (second last in the entire NHL for actual goals against, ahead of only Marcus Petterson) and in terms of eye test (just watch any of his games lol).

Passes do go through him like a hot knife through butter.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Are you looking at 2023-24 stats for Parayko? He's been arguably the single worst defensive player in the NHL this season both analytically (fighting with Erik Karlsson, Zack Werenski, and the Ferraro-Ceci pairing for worst xGA in the NHL and not far off from the worst HDCA either) and in terms of traditional stats (second last in the entire NHL for actual goals against, ahead of only Marcus Petterson) and in terms of eye test (just watch any of his games lol).

His defence is still solid. The Blues are just ass, he plays a million minutes, and is worse than useless offensively.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I don't see how you get recency bias out of this. I was the one who called this coming last year when pretty much everyone else thought this guy was a team Canada lock, top 3 for the Norris, just a budding superstar etc.

He's a good offensive defensemen. He's just not an elite player, nor should he be paid like one.

Hes a defensemen. You only notice them when they make a bad play. People ignore the good ones they make.

And yes he is an offensive defender, they make the most plays and have the most turn overs.

Bouchard is 22nd in the league for giveaways. Notable awful players with higher numbers.
Svechnikov, Pietrangelo, Parayko, Kaprisov, Pasternak, Makar, Theodore, Sergachev, MacKinnon.
Then you have Josi with one less in 3 more games.

If giveaways/turnovers are why he is so bad then Makar sucks. But you would never say that would you?

You know what you people ignore? Bouchard is 15th in the league for TAKEAWAYS. AHEAD of guys like Hughes, Theodore, Fox.

He is a higher event player who is always coming out ahead.

Looking at ALL defenders in the league who have played 500 5v5 minutes this year. (There is 89). He is
11th GF
61 GA
3rd xGF
35 xGA
28th HDGA
80th PDO

So what these raw numbers tell us is when he is on the ice he is elite offensively, middle of the pack defensively and very unlucky. Lots of weak goals go in with him on the ice which he cannot control. So of the all the leagues top 3 defenders even having a rough year he is playing at worst like a #3 defender.

People notice his mistakes but ignore all the little things he does well. High event players mistakes are magnified. It’s always been that way.
But unless you are going to call guys like Josi, Pietrangeo, Hamilton, Parayko, Hanifin, Samheim, Slavin, Theodore bad defensive players, or say their goaltending is far worse than Skinner than you really don’t know what you are saying.

 

[On The Prowl]

Bouchard isn't going to be a physical, low event option and he isn't going to get 1st unit PP time so I understand why they went with somebody like Parayko who will probably fit that role of big and hard to play against. Bouchard is very skilled, and if they were building a team filled with the 6 most talented D available he would have made the team.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Bouchard isn't going to be a physical, low event option and he isn't going to get 1st unit PP time so I understand why they went with somebody like Parayko who will probably fit that role of big and hard to play against. Bouchard is very skilled, and if they were building a team filled with the 6 most talented D available he would have made the team.

Yep. There is also bias among GMs and that’s always been true.
Great players often get left on these teams for worse guys because of that. You bc a never use it as a measure of a player.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

View attachment 948725


His defence is still solid. The Blues are just ass, he plays a million minutes, and is worse than useless offensively.

Yeah these numbers are being muddled by his 2023-24 season numbers for sure (which was genuinely very good defensively), but he's been a complete pylon on defense this year. Of course on a per-minute basis, his xGA etc are no longer bottom 10 in the entire league but they're still very comfortably in the bottom quartile of the NHL and both Suter and Broberg tend to perform better without him than with.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Hes a defensemen. You only notice them when they make a bad play. People ignore the good ones they make.

And yes he is an offensive defender, they make the most plays and have the most turn overs.

Bouchard is 22nd in the league for giveaways. Notable awful players with higher numbers.
Svechnikov, Pietrangelo, Parayko, Kaprisov, Pasternak, Makar, Theodore, Sergachev, MacKinnon.
Then you have Josi with one less in 3 more games.

If giveaways/turnovers are why he is so bad then Makar sucks. But you would never say that would you?

You know what you people ignore? Bouchard is 15th in the league for TAKEAWAYS. AHEAD of guys like Hughes, Theodore, Fox.

He is a higher event player who is always coming out ahead.

Looking at ALL defenders in the league who have played 500 5v5 minutes this year. (There is 89). He is
11th GF
61 GA
3rd xGF
35 xGA
28th HDGA
80th PDO

So what these raw numbers tell us is when he is on the ice he is elite offensively, middle of the pack defensively and very unlucky. Lots of weak goals go in with him on the ice which he cannot control. So of the all the leagues top 3 defenders even having a rough year he is playing at worst like a #3 defender.

People notice his mistakes but ignore all the little things he does well. High event players mistakes are magnified. It’s always been that way.
But unless you are going to call guys like Josi, Pietrangeo, Hamilton, Parayko, Hanifin, Samheim, Slavin, Theodore bad defensive players, or say their goaltending is far worse than Skinner than you really don’t know what you are saying.

He's also tied for 50th among defencemen in blocked shots, ahead of Makar, Hughes, Heiskanen, Hedman, Slavin, Ekblad, etc etc etc. which has to be devastating for the "SOFT, DUMB, DOESN'T PLAY DEFENCE" idiots.

Dominating possession like that and STILL being in the right position to block shots is pretty impressive.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Yeah these numbers are being muddled by his 2023-24 season numbers for sure (which was genuinely very good defensively), but he's been a complete pylon on defense this year. Of course on a per-minute basis, his xGA etc are no longer bottom 10 in the entire league but they're still very comfortably in the bottom quartile of the NHL and both Suter and Broberg tend to perform better without him than with.
View attachment 948727

A bit of that can be misleading. Parayko plays the toughest minutes on the team so everyone’s numbers should be worse with him.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Yeah these numbers are being muddled by his 2023-24 season numbers for sure (which was genuinely very good defensively), but he's been a complete pylon on defense this year. Of course on a per-minute basis, his xGA etc are no longer bottom 10 in the entire league but they're still very comfortably in the bottom quartile of the NHL and both Suter and Broberg tend to perform better without him than with.
View attachment 948727

5v5 XGA is more of a team stat for me. You'll notice the top 10 is filled with defencemen that play a lot of minutes for tire fire teams.

 

[McAsuno]

Hes a defensemen. You only notice them when they make a bad play. People ignore the good ones they make.

And yes he is an offensive defender, they make the most plays and have the most turn overs.

Bouchard is 22nd in the league for giveaways. Notable awful players with higher numbers.
Svechnikov, Pietrangelo, Parayko, Kaprisov, Pasternak, Makar, Theodore, Sergachev, MacKinnon.
Then you have Josi with one less in 3 more games.

If giveaways/turnovers are why he is so bad then Makar sucks. But you would never say that would you?

You know what you people ignore? Bouchard is 15th in the league for TAKEAWAYS. AHEAD of guys like Hughes, Theodore, Fox.

He is a higher event player who is always coming out ahead.

Looking at ALL defenders in the league who have played 500 5v5 minutes this year. (There is 89). He is
11th GF
61 GA
3rd xGF
35 xGA
28th HDGA
80th PDO

So what these raw numbers tell us is when he is on the ice he is elite offensively, middle of the pack defensively and very unlucky. Lots of weak goals go in with him on the ice which he cannot control. So of the all the leagues top 3 defenders even having a rough year he is playing at worst like a #3 defender.

People notice his mistakes but ignore all the little things he does well. High event players mistakes are magnified. It’s always been that way.
But unless you are going to call guys like Josi, Pietrangeo, Hamilton, Parayko, Hanifin, Samheim, Slavin, Theodore bad defensive players, or say their goaltending is far worse than Skinner than you really don’t know what you are saying.

Some Oiler fans just don't appreciate players like Bouchard. They much rather have the Kris Russells of the world and then complain after on the Oilers not having a player like Bouchard. Rinse and repeat.

 

[CycloneSweep]

He's also tied for 50th among defencemen in blocked shots, ahead of Makar, Hughes, Heiskanen, Hedman, Slavin, Ekblad, etc etc etc. which has to be devastating for the "SOFT, DUMB, DOESN'T PLAY DEFENCE" idiots.

Dominating possession like that and STILL being in the right position to block shots is pretty impressive.

I didn’t post it but he literally has the best corsi of the top d. Possession beasts give the puck up more cause they have the puck more to give up. Guys who tend to make plays give the puck up more cause they are trying to make plays.

Like watch Makar play. He makes mistakes like Bouchard too. It’s the nature of players like that. Only guys who don’t are pure shut down guys whose only play is to get the puck out.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

If Avs called the Oilers asking for Bouchard for Makar, people would say no? Quite a take by some posters lol.

Makar is the better player but his injury history concerns me.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Some Oiler fans just don't appreciate players like Bouchard. They much rather have the Kris Russells of the world and then complain after on the Oilers not having a player like Bouchard. Rinse and repeat.

The numbers say 2 things. Bouchard is a legit great top pairing guy. OR Ekholm is one of the all time best defenders in history to compensate for Bouchards suck. One is likely. The other is a joke.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Maybe trade for one of the defenders available since the D cores weakness is getting realized now. Maybe just get someone like....

MIKE MATHESON

Bring on the hate!

 

[bobbythebrain]

The analytics just don't make sense on this guy. Even last night he turned the puck over too much, it just didn't end up in our net.

He played poor and got demoted.

Even in the Ozone in the 3rd when he was driving the net with the puck on his stick in the slot he was too slow and got caught from behind. (it's nit picking, but a true elite offensive guy finishes that play)

Woof, you really don't have a handle on reality

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I didn’t post it but he literally has the best corsi of the top d. Possession beasts give the puck up more cause they have the puck more to give up. Guys who tend to make plays give the puck up more cause they are trying to make plays.

Like watch Makar play. He makes mistakes like Bouchard too. It’s the nature of players like that. Only guys who don’t are pure shut down guys whose only play is to get the puck out.

Absolutely.

I know guys that would sell their firstborn children to have a tough, hard nose, ROCK SOLID DEFENCEMAN like Zadorov on this team.

He's currently 5th in the NHL in giveaways, and it ain't because he's a possession monster.

Sergachev is 7th. Makar is 9th. Weegar is 1st. Hamilton is 2nd. Having the puck on your stick and trying to make shit happen results in giveaways. It just does.

Maybe trade for one of the defenders available since the D cores weakness is getting realized now. Maybe just get someone like....

MIKE MATHESON

Bring on the hate!

I mean, if ever there's a time to f*** around and try new pairings, it's with the Sharks coming up tomorrow.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Maybe trade for one of the defenders available since the D cores weakness is getting realized now. Maybe just get someone like....

MIKE MATHESON

Bring on the hate!

This isn’t the team acknowledging a weakness. This is the team acknowledging Nurses much improved play this year and Emberson turning into the player is stats made him look like he was.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Then that's the answer as to who the better player is.

No one said Bouchard is better than makar

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

A bit of that can be misleading. Parayko plays the toughest minutes on the team so everyone’s numbers should be worse with him.

5v5 XGA is more of a team stat for me. You'll notice the top 10 is filled with defencemen that play a lot of minutes for tire fire teams.

For sure his numbers are being tanked by his quality of competition and the fact that Blues forwards not named Robert Thomas, Dylan Holloway, and Zach Bolduc are possession black holes this season. But he also isn't blameless either and his poor puck moving abilities lead to extended defensive zone shifts and more chances against. I know most Oilers fans were busy focusing on Broberg's mistakes when we played them a few weeks ago (and there were many) but the worst performing dman that game on either team was Parayko. The guy looked like the defenseman version of Adam Henrique that game. I'm not even sure if the puck ever exited the Blues' zone with him on the ice. Even if we're giving him benefit of the doubt, he still has no business being chosen for Team Canada.

 

[bobbythebrain]

This isn’t the team acknowledging a weakness. This is the team acknowledging Nurses much improved play this year and Emberson turning into the player is stats made him look like he was.

I agree with this. Nurse definitely has opened things up showing he doesn't need a babysitter

I see move as a way to have 2 scoring dlines vs just one as Ekholm has offensive chops. Spreading it out more over 2 lines is the logical play

 

[TheNumber4]

Maybe trade for one of the defenders available since the D cores weakness is getting realized now. Maybe just get someone like....

MIKE MATHESON

Bring on the hate!

Kind of sad to see the Ekholm-Bouch pair broken up. End of an era? Or just temporary?

Flip side, happy to see Nurse living up to his potential.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Kind of sad to see the Ekholm-Bouch pair broken up. End of an era? Or just temporary?

Flip side, happy to see Nurse living up to his potential.

We'll likely see Ekholm Bouchard back together at some point. Having a surging Emberson mentored by Ekholm can only mean good things for his development, especially since two of Emberson's biggest weakness, puck moving and knowing when to pinch to support our forwards, is Ekholm's bread and butter.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Kind of sad to see the Ekholm-Bouch pair broken up. End of an era? Or just temporary?

Flip side, happy to see Nurse living up to his potential.

It’s a bit of balancing. Ekholm can cover Emberson better. Gives us 3 good pairs.

 

[TheNumber4]

We'll likely see Ekholm Bouchard back together at some point. Having a surging Emberson mentored by Ekholm can only mean good things for his development, especially since two of Emberson's biggest weakness, puck moving and knowing when to pinch to support our forwards, is Ekholm's bread and butter.

Would agree. Embersons read and react game needs polishing. And Ekholm can help with that. The dominance of Ek-Bouch over the last year and half, I would not like to lose though. But the pair has been struggling, so if only for a wake up call this could be a good thing. And it’ll do wonders for Nurses confidence.

It’s a bit of balancing. Ekholm can cover Emberson better. Gives us 3 good pairs.

It does make a lot of sense. I did enjoy the dominance Bouch-Ek had though. But let’s see where this takes us, they can always reunite.

 

[McAsuno]

The numbers say 2 things. Bouchard is a legit great top pairing guy. OR Ekholm is one of the all time best defenders in history to compensate for Bouchards suck. One is likely. The other is a joke.

Yep.

Can't believe I'm linking Gregor, but he's bang on regarding Bouchard. It's the typical 'what have you done for me lately' from this fanbase when Bouchard outplayed two of the best D players in the league in Heiskanen and Hughes last playoff run. He was super clutch in the nucks series as well. Bouchard WILL be fine. Especially when the offense outchances the opposition more whenever he's on the ice compared to when he's off.

I remember seeing comments from this site of how players like McDavid isn't deemed a good leader, should be stripped off the C, doesn't make his team better, or Draisaitl should be traded because he has a pissy attitude or is lazy at times because he isn't skating the way 'eyetesters' want. HFOil, never change. Just have to look for a new scapegoat every f***ing year to bitch about unwarranted just because 'muhhhh eYE teSt' means more to me and your stats don't matter and irrelevant hur durrrrrr.