Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Y'all Got Any Good Goalies?

[belair]

I think Pickard is also alright. Dunno.

I find goalies to be voodoo, and difficult to properly assess when they transfer to another organization, with another defensive system and personnel. Ullmark faultering in Ottawa isn't a shock to me.

Jack Campbell shouldn't have been as bad as he was, he put up some respectable numbers in Toronto before shitting the bed here.

I don't think MacBlack is a significant upgrade on George but what do I know?


The one MAJOR swing that still intrigues me is John Gibson. If we could get him at double retention he would be worth the gamble.

Pickard has no proof he can handle the Skinner workload. Any realistic goalie 'upgrade' is on Calvin Pickard. John Gibson included.

 

[TheNumber4]

Are people suggesting that the Oilers should have traded Skinner + for Blackwood? Or would it have been Pickard +. In the latter case you are adding $1.5M on the cap so that eats up all the accrued space at it is probably the teams big move for the year. For me that would be a massive disappointment. Maybe you make that deal at the deadline if you can get 50% retention at a reasonable price so you still have options. In the former case, I see no reason to do that. Blackwell may not even be an upgrade on Skinner. Adding assets to make this deal would have been bad management.

We should also keep in mind that Colorado came out Cap positive in this deal. By going from George to Blackwood. They saved Cap space. We would have lost cap space if we went Picard to Blackwood.

Also, they were completely done with Georgiev. He shit the pants against Dallas and they were out in Round 1. Meanwhile Skinner played well against Dallas and we got all the way to the Game 7 of the SCF.

The goalie situation in Colorado is more dire than what we are seeing here. Not to say Skinner has played well this year, but atleast we have signs he can turn it around and rebound. Colorado was at a point where they had no hope of that left with Georgiev.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Pickard has no proof he can handle the Skinner workload. Any realistic goalie 'upgrade' is on Calvin Pickard. John Gibson included.

I get that.

Pickard isn't a bad backup and who's to say the next guy we bring in isn't basically Jack Campbell v2.
Campbell posted .914, .921, and .915 before arriving in Edmonton.

Transplanting a goalie from one org to another doesn't always work out.
Who's to say Saros would be any better here when he's not insulated by Josi playing half the game?

 

[McTonyBrar]

Some part of me wants to see Stuart Skinner traded so that all of us can actually see how valuable he is to Edmonton and how good he actually is.

Just like Dubnyk was

 

[TheNumber4]

Stats wise their goaltending isn’t below our duo. Swayman and the bruins are a soup sandwich right now though I’ll give you that. Something tells me swayman bounces back though.

I’m pretty sure he’ll bounce back too. The skill and ability is apparent with Swayman. But could you imagine if we invested $8M+ into an Ullmark or Swayman and they shat the bed this hard, we’d be completely f***ed. That’s why they call it voodoo I guess. And that’s why I want my goalie position cheap and fluid.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Some part of me wants to see Stuart Skinner traded so that all of us can actually see how valuable he is to Edmonton and how good he actually is.

Just like Dubnyk was

Or bad.

 

[TheNumber4]

Some part of me wants to see Stuart Skinner traded so that all of us can actually see how valuable he is to Edmonton and how good he actually is.

Just like Dubnyk was

Not to mention this board has been shitting on Dustin Schwartz for how long now. We all know he’s an issue. And finally we have a goalie that might be on the same page as us.

Skinner started working with Francillia just last year. His first off season with Francillia was THIS year. Also Vasilevsky hired Francillia for the first time this off season. Hellybucyk has been working with Francillia since Day 1 and look at the results. This guy is the true goalie guru.

I want to see what Skinner can do with Francillia. Francillia himself said it the first step would be to unlearn things, and that takes a long time. Skinner has been average at best and inconsistent, can Francillia take him to the next level? It’s pretty much what this board has always asked for, someone other than Schwartz. I’d like to see that experiment through.

 

[K1984]

I don’t mind dice rolls on cheap goalies. In fact I advocated for it. But that went out the f***in window when Holland completely blew it on $5M for Campbell and we’re still paying for that move cause we went for a “real starter”.

If it was up to me these last 3 years in net we would have already seen Blackwood in an Oilers jersey, AND Skinner, AND Ned/Stolarz/Talbot/Picard/Lindgren/Forsberg/whoever is cheap on cap and term until we find the guy.

But sinking $5M into one Seive in Campbell makes it hard to experiment with the cheap goalie rotation. We have to be really careful now what moves we make in net.

There is no bigger mistake a GM can make than overpaying a goalie for all the reasons you described. If I were a GM with no goalies at all and some cap space to burn I would still rather play Russian roulette with the economically friendly goalies you listed than try and bag a starter with a massive contract.

Dumping massive deals on goalies seems to be the fad lately (for reasons I can't possibly understand), but I bet in 3-5 years that will reverse after teams see how bad teams got burned by it.

 

[Oilhawks]

I'm no fan of Skinner, but Georgiev is much, much worse.

 

[KCC]

i read these types of posts here all the time and i dont think people actually would love to be proven wrong.

He had a bad start to the year and hes recovered. Every goalie has bad games and gives up bad goals but people here really focus and nitpick every aspect of Skinners game with an unrealistic fine tooth comb. He was the goalie of note that went to game 7 of the SCF last year and a big reason for our 8 and 16 game win streaks.

Some people will never be able to see past a bad start or bad goal.

He’s also a big reason so many series went as long as they did. Edm when they went on those streaks were very stingy defensively. They didn’t give up much. Skinner barely had to do anything. Overall one again He’s incredibly inconsistent and once again has a below .900 save percentage despite the fact edm gives up some of the fewest amount of shots in the league. Any other average goalie would look like an all star having to only face low 20+ shots a night.

 

[Spawn]

Some part of me wants to see Stuart Skinner traded so that all of us can actually see how valuable he is to Edmonton and how good he actually is.

Just like Dubnyk was

Dubnyk was vastly better than Skinner for three seasons here on infinitely worse teams.

 

[TheNumber4]

There is no bigger mistake a GM can make than overpaying a goalie for all the reasons you described. If I were a GM with no goalies at all and some cap space to burn I would still rather play Russian roulette with the economically friendly goalies you listed than try and bag a starter with a massive contract.

Dumping massive deals on goalies seems to be the fad lately (for reasons I can't possibly understand), but I bet in 3-5 years that will reverse after teams see how bad teams got burned by it.

It’s the most volatile position in hockey for a reason. So many variables can go into goalie performance. Fit with teams, defensive systems, their own mental head space. The guys that are consistently elite, tend to stick with the same team and grow with the team. And those guys are rare and unavailable.

A team like the Oilers who have never drafted a blue chip goalie from the start are always going to be looking at UFAs or trades. And the volatility will be there. That’s why you need it cheap and fluid until the right fit is found.

Hated the Campbell signing from Day 1. Can only hope that we don’t make that same mistake moving forward now.

 

[Spawn]

i read these types of posts here all the time and i dont think people actually would love to be proven wrong.

He had a bad start to the year and hes recovered. Every goalie has bad games and gives up bad goals but people here really focus and nitpick every aspect of Skinners game with an unrealistic fine tooth comb. He was the goalie of note that went to game 7 of the SCF last year and a big reason for our 8 and 16 game win streaks.

Some people will never be able to see past a bad start or bad goal.

People will see past a bad start or a bad goal once Skinner stops having more bad starts than good ones.

He’s still sitting at a .892 sv% and of the 50 goalies who have played at least 10 games this season he’s 44th in gsaa/60.

Maybe get those numbers into the top half of the league and people will start giving him some grace.

There’s absolutely nothing to suggest he’s not one of the worst starters in the league right now.

In fact, you could very easily argue that the only starting goalie worse than Skinner just got traded away with a 2nd round pick because that team was desperate for an upgrade.

 

[TheNumber4]

I'm no fan of Skinner, but Georgiev is much, much worse.

Like.

Oh i lost my likes again. Complete bullshit reason too. Oh well it was a good run while it lasted.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

i read these types of posts here all the time and i dont think people actually would love to be proven wrong.

He had a bad start to the year and hes recovered. Every goalie has bad games and gives up bad goals but people here really focus and nitpick every aspect of Skinners game with an unrealistic fine tooth comb. He was the goalie of note that went to game 7 of the SCF last year and a big reason for our 8 and 16 game win streaks.

Some people will never be able to see past a bad start or bad goal.

I would looooove to be proven wrong. Unfortunately the eye test matches the numbers. He’s a bad goalie on a good team.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

It's just Mackenzie Blackwood lol, he's not even good. Skinner has been the better goalie than him all but this season. And even now, Skinner is starting to show some signs of turning things around with a couple good games in a row. I can understand wanting to upgrade the starting goalie but can we at least target someone who struggled to post a 0.900 save percentage in each of the past 3 seasons? Same story with John Gibson btw, awful goalie.

 

[TheNumber4]

He’s also a big reason so many series went as long as they did. Edm when they went on those streaks were very stingy defensively. They didn’t give up much. Skinner barely had to do anything. Overall one again He’s incredibly inconsistent and once again has a below .900 save percentage despite the fact edm gives up some of the fewest amount of shots in the league. Any other average goalie would look like an all star having to only face low 20+ shots a night.

He could also be the reason Dallas didn’t storm back and take the series. 34 shots to 10 shots in Game 6 (!). They completely took over and we eeked a win out of there cause of Stu’s .971 and Oettinger’s .800 (“Skinner Upgrade”).

We probably still take the LA series either way, but 33 shots to 13 (!) Stu Shutout in Game 4 was needed to take it in 5.

 

[North]

Some part of me wants to see Stuart Skinner traded so that all of us can actually see how valuable he is to Edmonton and how good he actually is.

Just like Dubnyk was

Dubnyk really turned it around in Minnesota and he needed to change his approach to goaltending for that to happen.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

It’s the most volatile position in hockey for a reason. So many variables can go into goalie performance. Fit with teams, defensive systems, their own mental head space. The guys that are consistently elite, tend to stick with the same team and grow with the team. And those guys are rare and unavailable.

A team like the Oilers who have never drafted a blue chip goalie from the start are always going to be looking at UFAs or trades. And the volatility will be there. That’s why you need it cheap and fluid until the right fit is found.

Hated the Campbell signing from Day 1. Can only hope that we don’t make that same mistake moving forward now.

I've become of the belief that it's more important to have a great goalie coach than anything else. Said great goalie coach can make mediocre goalies look good and good goalies look great, while also helping your own goalie prospects develop internally. There's a reason why teams like Boston and New York are seemingly endless goalie factories. The best part is that it takes up zero cap space to invest in a great goalie coach, but instead we're one of the richest teams in the NHL and stuck with Dustin.

 

[TheNumber4]

Dubnyk really turned it around in Minnesota and he needed to change his approach to goaltending for that to happen.

Might be good news that Skinner has already changed his approach by hiring Francillia and not relying exclusively on the advice of an Oilers goalie coach. We shall see.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

He could also be the reason Dallas didn’t storm back and take the series. 34 shots to 10 shots in Game 6 (!). They completely took over and we eeked a win out of there cause of Stu’s .971 and Oettinger’s .800 (“Skinner Upgrade”).

We probably still take the LA series either way, but 33 shots to 13 (!) Stu Shutout in Game 4 was needed to take it in 5.

Lol and below 900 3 out of 5 games against one of the leagues worst offences.

 

[Zerotonine]

People seemed pretty happen July 1st that the oilers took steps to add to the team.


Then when they were wrong ones they turned on them.

Blackwood is just barely better than Georgiev.

Skinner is also a game or two away from having a .900 save percentage.

Everyone still bitched all summer about not doing anything in net. Don't be foolish

 

[jukon]

Not that I'm a goalie expert, but I wanted Kuemper and COL got him instead. I wanted Blackwood, but COL got him instead. If COL hires Vancouver's goalie coach, I may lose my mind.

 

[TheNumber4]

I've become of the belief that it's more important to have a great goalie coach than anything else. Said great goalie coach can make mediocre goalies look good and good goalies look great, while also helping your own goalie prospects develop internally. There's a reason why teams like Boston and New York are seemingly endless goalie factories. The best part is that it takes up zero cap space to invest in a great goalie coach, but instead we're one of the richest teams in the NHL and stuck with Dustin.

Makes sense. The student can only be as good as the lessons he’s given. And Schwartz has given us no reason to think he’s doling out good lessons. Let’s see what Francillia can do for the short term, in the long term Schwartz might need to find a job elsewhere.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Some part of me wants to see Stuart Skinner traded so that all of us can actually see how valuable he is to Edmonton and how good he actually is.

Just like Dubnyk was

Dubnyk was average propped up by an elite defense that allowed barely any high danger chances