Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Post Free Agent Frenzy, Will JJ Show His Pimp Hand Again to Upgrade the Defense?

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I think it's easy for fans to turn on Holland but realistically most of the work that JJ did was prepared under Holland. It's not like JJ woke up on July 1st and thought "I'm going to make all these changes" instead of trusting the process and guys in place. I'm not trying to take anything away from Jackson but its not at the expense of Holland.

From the sounds of if we basically had Arvidsson signed since the Dallas series.

Holland was the one that brought in Henrique, Brown and Janmark, retaining those 3 were all likely or took place under Hollands watch (with JJ bringing it across the line).

Full marks to JJ for the Sam O'Reilly and Matt Savoie moves. I think at that point Holland didn't have a whole lot to do with those since they occurred or talks started at the draft.

I also think the Jeff Skinner move was a Jackson one as the new came out around the draft that Buffalo was going to buy him out.

Having said all that, its a lot easier for Jackson to make moves on a winning team that players are willing to take less to play for. Holland inherited a dumpster fire with a handful of good players. I will forever respect what Holland was able to do and bring us to within a couple goals of a stanley cup.

I'm excited to see what Jackson and our new GM are able to do in order to take the next step! Lots of pressure to win it all from this point on.

Good post!

 

[McBooya42]

Funny how Jackson was handed a near Stanley Cup winning team and somehow he is a hero.

Holland made this from a mess.

Jj job is to try to not f it up.

No, he made some really nice trades and some excellent signings. Holland hasn't been at the wheel since JJ was hired IMO. That's why we're happy with his work so far.

 

[Soundwave]

Better than most teams but most teams have crap defense corps. That's the truth. Points and quick puck transportation that equate to efficient and controlled zone exits are different but not necessarily mutually exclusive things.

The Oilers get hemmed in their own zone. Sometimes they eventually get scored on. But even when they don't get scored on the team becomes worn down and exhausted, not to mention the momentum of the game is likely changed. One bad shift, even if the team doesn't get scored on, can alter the events of the game.

Our players only have so many shifts in them per game and when those minutes are spent in the defensive zone this is not a good outcome, regardless of the final score.

Puck movement doesn't necessarily mean more points, it means having the puck in your own zone for less time.

We were killing Florida with stretch passes from our D in the last 4 games of that series, over and over again they were getting burned by that. I think that counts as puck movement.

Could it be better? Sure, but part of the issue of not getting pucks out was forwards like McLeod failing to make simple plays.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

No, he made some really nice trades and some excellent signings. Holland hasn't been at the wheel since JJ was hired IMO. That's why we're happy with his work so far.

Everyone was shitting on Holland at the TDL.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Holland created a culture. From Keith to Hyman to Brown he wanted positivity and experience.
So muuuuuuuuch has been reported o how awesome the dressing room is atm.

JJ's job was made much easier adding 2 wingers who want to win under this culture.

Ppl pissing and dismissing what Holland did here are clueless

 

[Canovin]

Did Holland make JJ's job easier? Maybe? Holland also didn't make life easier for himself most of the time. If Holland was still GM, he would still be sleeping. Not much would have been done. Jackson did the best with what's at his hands. Holland only ever used 20% of what's available

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Holland created a culture. From Keith to Hyman to Brown he wanted positivity and experience.
So muuuuuuuuch has been reported o how awesome the dressing room is atm.

JJ's job was made much easier adding 2 wingers who want to win under this culture.

Ppl pissing and dismissing what Holland did here are clueless

Yep. How quickly people forget the yard sale this organization was before Holland.

 

[Broberg Speed]

We were killing Florida with stretch passes from our D in the last 4 games of that series, over and over again they were getting burned by that. I think that counts as puck movement.

Could it be better? Sure, but part of the issue of not getting pucks out was forwards like McLeod failing to make simple plays.

Make the team better. I've identified what I think the number one weakness of the club is and what the predominate skill set lacking from the backend is. I'm right on this.

I never liked McLeod as a center. I've made that clear for years. But I'm done with scapegoating players that have moved on. It accomplishes nothing.

Every year it's the same thing. We lose to teams we should have beaten... you say. It's not the truth.

 

[TB12]

Yep. How quickly people forget the yard sale this organization was before Holland.

Yup. As always, I hope everyone has a great day, except for Peter Chiarelli. f*** that guy.

 

[Canovin]

Make the team better. I've identified what I think the number one weakness of the club is and what the predominate skill set lacking from the backend is. I'm right on this.

I never liked McLeod as a center. I've made that clear for years. But I'm done with scapegoating players that have moved on. It accomplishes nothing.

Every year it's the same thing. We lose to teams we should have beaten... you say. It's not the truth.

Most of Florida players were healthy. Oilers weren't. We'd win if the Oilers were more healthy. Never once during the series did I find myself saying we need another puck transporter, If anything I found myself saying we could use another top 6 player

 

[gordonhught]

Yup. As always, I hope everyone has a great day, except for Peter Chiarelli. f*** that guy.

Is Chiarelli now working for Crowdstrike?

 

[Broberg Speed]

Most of Florida players were healthy. Oilers weren't. We'd win if the Oilers were more healthy. Never once during the series did I find myself saying we need another puck transporter, If anything I found myself saying we could use another top 6 player

And we lost to a better team... everyone outside of this market said the Oilers were going to lose and we did. No championship for the Oilers. Mark it down in the record book with an asterisk that the Oilers didn't get swept and forced a game 7.

What is the point of making excuse after excuse year after year? If we made the corrections last offseason instead of making excuses maybe we would have won.

Does it make you feel better making excuses and lying to yourself, does it bring us any closer to being Stanley Cup Champions? No it does not. Get the puck mover, make the corrections... stop being a fanboy.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Better than most teams but most teams have crap defense corps. That's the truth. Points and quick puck transportation that equate to efficient and controlled zone exits are different but not necessarily mutually exclusive things.

The Oilers get hemmed in their own zone. Sometimes they eventually get scored on. But even when they don't get scored on the team becomes worn down and exhausted, not to mention the momentum of the game is likely changed. One bad shift, even if the team doesn't get scored on, can alter the events of the game.

Our players only have so many shifts in them per game and when those minutes are spent in the defensive zone this is not a good outcome, regardless of the final score.

Puck movement doesn't necessarily mean more points, it means having the puck in your own zone for less time.

I was curious about your statement about Oilers defensive zone time so looked at NHL Edge numbers to compare their regular season and playoff numbers. The huge favourable ice tilt they had in regular season reduced significantly in playoffs (not too surprising as quality of competition also increases in the second season). Oil also most certainly benefitted from a lights out 94.3% penalty kill which likely isn't repeatable.

Looking at an NHL Final that was won by the slimmest margins I thought it curious to compare Edmonton and Florida regular season and post season zone play results. Florida had less variance in their game notably defensive zone time.

I've long said the Oilers still need to upgrade the top end of its d-corp with a stabilizing second pair RD. I think this is still a critical need in razor thin margins against truly elite Cup contending competition.



Oilers Regular Season - Zone Time

43.9% Offensive Zone Time	41.4 League Average	93 Percentile
17.6% Neutral Zone Time	17.8 League Average	Below 50th
38.6% Defensive Zone Time	40.8 League Average	90 Percentile

Oilers Playoff - Zone Time

41.6% Offensive Zone Time	41 League Average	75 Percentile
17.5% Neutral Zone Time	18.1 League Average	Below 50
40.9% Defensive Zone Time	41 League Average	56 Percentile

Oilers Variance:
2.3% Offensive Zone Time Reduction in Playoffs
2.3% Defensive Zone Time Increase in Playoffs

Florida Panthers
44.9 Offensive Zone Time -> 43.3% Playoff Offensive Zone Time (93 Percentile)
17.7 Neutral Zone Time -> 18.1% Playoff Neutral Zone Time (Below 50th)
37.4 Defensive Zone Time -> 38.9% Playoff Neutral Zone Time (93 Percentile)

Panthers Variance:
1.6% Offensive Zone Time Reduction in Playoffs
1.5% Defensive Zone Time Increase in Playoffs

 

[Canovin]

And we lost to a better team... everyone outside of this market said the Oilers were going to lose and we did. No championship for the Oilers. Mark it down in the record book with an asterisk that the Oilers didn't get swept and forced a game 7.

What is the point of making excuse after excuse year after year? If we made the corrections last offseason instead of making excuses maybe we would have won.

Does it make you feel better making excuses and lying to yourself, does it bring us any closer to being Stanley Cup Champions? No it does not. Get the puck mover, make the corrections... stop being a fanboy.

Stop being a fanboy? lol okay

Doesn't matter what anyone says prior to the series. We dominated 5 games out of 7. McDavid, Drai, Kane etc were injured. We aren't going to win with our best players playing injured.

 

[McDoused]

not sure where this belongs but it was worth watching

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

And we lost to a better team... everyone outside of this market said the Oilers were going to lose and we did. No championship for the Oilers. Mark it down in the record book with an asterisk that the Oilers didn't get swept and forced a game 7.

What is the point of making excuse after excuse year after year? If we made the corrections last offseason instead of making excuses maybe we would have won.

Does it make you feel better making excuses and lying to yourself, does it bring us any closer to being Stanley Cup Champions? No it does not. Get the puck mover, make the corrections... stop being a fanboy.

Lol “fan boy”. You are posting on hockey forum about the Oilers. You are exactly what you call others.

 

[McSuper]

Lol “fan boy”. You are posting on hockey forum about the Oilers. You are exactly what you call others.

Pretty sure he was joking

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Lol “fan boy”. You are posting on hockey forum about the Oilers. You are exactly what you call others.

Technically he’s not a fanboy, he’s a castoff from Calgary puck

 

[Broberg Speed]

I was curious about your statement about Oilers defensive zone time so looked at NHL Edge numbers to compare their regular season and playoff numbers. The huge favourable ice tilt they had in regular season reduced significantly in playoffs (not too surprising as quality of competition also increases in the second season). Oil also most certainly benefitted from a lights out 94.3% penalty kill which likely isn't repeatable.

Looking at an NHL Final that was won by the slimmest margins I thought it curious to compare Edmonton and Florida regular season and post season zone play results. Florida had less variance in their game notably defensive zone time.

I've long said the Oilers still need to upgrade the top end of its d-corp with a stabilizing second pair RD. I think this is still a critical need in razor thin margins against truly elite Cup contending competition.



Oilers Regular Season - Zone Time

43.9% Offensive Zone Time	41.4 League Average	93 Percentile
17.6% Neutral Zone Time	17.8 League Average	Below 50th
38.6% Defensive Zone Time	40.8 League Average	90 Percentile

Oilers Playoff - Zone Time

41.6% Offensive Zone Time	41 League Average	75 Percentile
17.5% Neutral Zone Time	18.1 League Average	Below 50
40.9% Defensive Zone Time	41 League Average	56 Percentile

Oilers Variance:
2.3% Offensive Zone Time Reduction in Playoffs
2.3% Defensive Zone Time Increase in Playoffs

Florida Panthers
44.9 Offensive Zone Time -> 43.3% Playoff Offensive Zone Time (93 Percentile)
17.7 Neutral Zone Time -> 18.1% Playoff Neutral Zone Time (Below 50th)
37.4 Defensive Zone Time -> 38.9% Playoff Neutral Zone Time (93 Percentile)

Panthers Variance:
1.6% Offensive Zone Time Reduction in Playoffs
1.5% Defensive Zone Time Increase in Playoffs

To beat the very best team you have to be better than them, unfortunately we were not.

Stop being a fanboy? lol okay

Doesn't matter what anyone says prior to the series. We dominated 5 games out of 7. McDavid, Drai, Kane etc were injured. We aren't going to win with our best players playing injured.

We don't have the cup, Florida does. One fanbase is celebrating, the other is making excuses. To be truthful no one in Florida gives a f***.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Pretty sure he was joking

… he says it all the time.

Technically he’s not a fanboy, he’s a castoff from Calgary puck

Calgary fanboy then.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Technically he’s not a fanboy, he’s a castoff from Calgary puck

And nobody is happier the Oilers lost in the finals than fans of the Flames. It's like you're tickling their balls for free.

 

[McJadeddog]

That chicklets episode is pretty hilarious actually. Like I get that people don't really like Biz and Whit that much, and its all clearly a show/act to a large degree, but still lots of funny moments of them getting caught up in it all.

 

[Soundwave]

Make the team better. I've identified what I think the number one weakness of the club is and what the predominate skill set lacking from the backend is. I'm right on this.

I never liked McLeod as a center. I've made that clear for years. But I'm done with scapegoating players that have moved on. It accomplishes nothing.

Every year it's the same thing. We lose to teams we should have beaten... you say. It's not the truth.

I mean the reality is we were in the Cup Final game 7. So I mean it's not like there are 30 better teams.

Florida was better by a hair.

We lost that series because Draisaitl and Kane were injured, plain and simple. Should have had 4-5 goals between those two in a normal 7 game series if they were healthy, instead got 0. That's the only series Draisaitl has ever had 0 goals.

So focusing on getting Skinner and Arvidsson was the right play. Kane's drop off after his wrist injury in particular has cost us in the playoffs. 13 goals in the 2022 playoffs was great, but only 3 in both of the last two playoff runs has hurt our top 6 production and 5 on 5 finishing in particular.

The fact that we damn near beat Florida with 0 goals from Draisaitl and Kane ... it's going to be a big problem for anyone if we have more wingers finishing chances outside of just Hyman and occasionally RNH (who is a pass first player).

 

[Broberg Speed]

I mean the reality is we were in the Cup Final game 7. So I mean it's not like there are 30 better teams.

Florida was better by a hair.

We lost that series because Draisaitl and Kane were injured, plain and simple. Should have had 4-5 goals between those two in a normal 7 game series if they were healthy, instead got 0. That's the only series Draisaitl has ever had 0 goals.

So focusing on getting Skinner and Arvidsson was the right play. Kane's drop off after his wrist injury in particular has cost us in the playoffs. 13 goals in the 2022 playoffs was great, but only 3 in both of the last two playoff runs has hurt our top 6 production and 5 on 5 finishing in particular.

So no need to try and improve the team on defense, is that your point? I must admit these copes fly over my head.

 

[Soundwave]

So no need to try and improve the team on defense moving forward, is that your point? I must admit these copes fly over my head.

They performed well in the playoffs, they shut down every team in the playoffs the longer every round along. The puck movement off the back end was killing Florida in the last 4 games and causing them all kinds of problems.

If you can improve any position, do it, but I don't view it as an emergency. We have Broberg being added into the mix next year too who gained priceless experience, that will be a big addition to the group if he continues to grow, a D group is only 6 deep it's not like you should be adding 3 new guys every off-season.