Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Post Free Agent Frenzy, Will JJ Show His Pimp Hand Again to Upgrade the Defense?

[tiger_80]

Panthers should be good again

until they get knocked out in the first round by some devils.

We don’t have cap space or picks for an offersheet. The max the team could sign a player for is 2.2m where the compensation would be a 3rd round pick. We don’t have the picks otherwise

No young stud is accepting a deal for that amount. That amount also isn’t scaring a team off from matching.

not to mention that the last time Kev did it, he almost had to face Burke in the barn. But Kev was the tough guy. Guys like Holland would get sodomized in that barn. lol

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

How the hell did League Outcast Kane get a NMC in his deal?

Oh right. Holland negotiated.

Oh hindsight. I remember you being pretty pumped.

 

[TheNumber4]

Oh hindsight. I remember you being pretty pumped.

About Kane the player. I didn’t like the AAV. I don’t think the Sharks situation was properly assessed and utilized for an optimal signing. Overall a fair deal for what he brings as a player, but I think Holland could have squeezed more.

 

[JeffSkinner53]

Let's not do that revisionist history. At the time the Kane deal was almost universally lauded.

Nobody can predict injuries unfortunately. Every team has a bad contract.

 

[Oilhawks]

About Kane the player. I didn’t like the AAV. I don’t think the Sharks situation was properly assessed and utilized for an optimal signing. Overall a fair deal for what he brings as a player, but I think Holland could have squeezed more.

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[TheNumber4]

Can you elaborate on this?

Sharks forced to top off Kane’s contract. There was potential to get him cheaper.

I can’t confirm or prove one way or the other. Nor can anyone else. So it’s my opinion that Holland didn’t get him as cheap as possible. And with Hollands lazy negotiating I could see it.

Yes now everyone will disagree and say Holland did a perfect negotiation or whatever. So preemptive agree to disagree.

 

[Oilhawks]

Sharks forced to top off Kane’s contract. There was potential to get him cheaper.

I can’t confirm or prove one way or the other. Nor can anyone else. So it’s my opinion that Holland didn’t get him as cheap as possible. And with Hollands lazy negotiating I could see it.

Yes now everyone will disagree and say Holland did a perfect negotiation or whatever. So preemptive agree to disagree.

to the bolded, come on man, you start slinging this stuff, expect to be debated without pre-emptively hand waving those debating you, or don’t bother

Kane‘s sharks contract was all spoken for with creditors, so I don’t see how that changes how much he should have been paid on the next contract.

Like I said, he had come off a great bounceback season and a dominant playoffs (didn’t he have two hat tricks??). Of course skepticism about past behaviour would have put him off with other teams (pretty much every player aside from the most elite, has teams that would not be interested in). He was going to get paid here or elsewhere.

What do you feel would have been a fair deal? $4.5M? Do you think that would be a lot easier to move? Or do you think a $6M deal without NMC (NMC gets you a discount, this is known to be the case) would be easier to move?

 

[VainGretzky]

Sharks forced to top off Kane’s contract. There was potential to get him cheaper.

I can’t confirm or prove one way or the other. Nor can anyone else. So it’s my opinion that Holland didn’t get him as cheap as possible. And with Hollands lazy negotiating I could see it.

Yes now everyone will disagree and say Holland did a perfect negotiation or whatever. So preemptive agree to disagree.

Bertuzzi just signed for 5.5 million and had less pts last season than Hobbled Kane did who played lots of 3rd line last season Bertuzzi was on the top 2 lines for the majority of the season, he would have had 55-60 points last season if healthy, and I'm sure the Oilers are more than happy to keep him

 

[TheNumber4]

to the bolded, come on man, you start slinging this stuff, expect to be debated without pre-emptively hand waiving those debating you, or don’t bother

Kane‘s sharks contract was all spoken for with creditors, so I don’t see how that changes how much he should have been paid on the next contract.

Like I said, he had come off a great bounceback season and a dominant playoffs (didn’t he have two hat tricks??). Of course skepticism about past behaviour would have put him off with other teams (pretty much every player aside from the most elite, has teams that would not be interested in). He was going to get paid here or elsewhere.

What do you feel would have been a fair deal? $4.5M? Do you think that would be a lot easier to move? Or do you think a $6M deal without NMC (NMC gets you a discount, this is known to be the case) would be easier to move?

Cause I’ve had this debate before and know where it goes.

I’m not slinging stuff. I saw that whole Kane negotiation go down. I have an opinion on how it went down.

At the time I said Kane would resign here. Reading the situation I didn’t think it was a risk he would go elsewhere and predicted we’d get him resigned.

I also thought it likely that Sharks would have to top off his contract. And they did. Thought something was fishy with how the NHL was handling it, and it still seems to me they waited for Kane to resign before allowing their arbitrator to make a decision on the Kane that the Sharks were in the wrong.

I also have a general impression of how Holland operates in negotiations. It’s lazy and bad negotiating, like he’s negotiating against himself.

My opinion is that Kane could have been had for cheaper in some form that could have included a lower AAV and/or less restrictive NMC if a better negotiator was at the helm. If JJ was at the helm, maybe we see discounts like Henrique, Brown, Skinner etc.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

With the contracts they each, a Kane + for Laine(retained a certain amount) might really work for both teams.

All the young forwards on the Jackets, a big mean Kane might help them out a bit.

 

[Oilhawks]

Cause I’ve had this debate before and know where it goes.

I’m not slinging stuff. I saw that whole Kane negotiation go down. I have an opinion on how it went down.

At the time I said Kane would resign here. Reading the situation I didn’t think it was a risk he would go elsewhere and predicted we’d get him resigned.

I also thought it likely that Sharks would have to top off his contract. And they did. Thought something was fishy with how the NHL was handling it, and it still seems to me they waited for Kane to resign before allowing their arbitrator to make a decision on the Kane that the Sharks were in the wrong.

I also have a general impression of how Holland operates in negotiations. It’s lazy and bad negotiating, like he’s negotiating against himself.

My opinion is that Kane could have been had for cheaper in some form that could have included a lower AAV and/or less restrictive NMC if a better negotiator was at the helm. If JJ was at the helm, maybe we see discounts like Henrique, Brown, Skinner etc.

So it’s all just conjecture and opinion? In that case, what do you think would have been a fair deal?

And while I agree that JJ is likely a better negotiator than Holland, I think some have been severely underrating the effect of “the team was one game away from winning it all and has McDrai on it” for part of why these players will willing to take a deal to come back.

 

[TheNumber4]

So it’s all just conjecture and opinion? In that case, what do you think would have been a fair deal?

Of course, like many things that happen behind the closed doors of a GMs office we don’t have enough information to confirm one way or the other. So you are left with your best guess based on the available information and at best an opinion can be formed. So like i said, I completely understand if you disagree with it. But my read of that situation, taking in the totality of what was known about that situation, my opinion is as I stated. I can’t peg an exact number, but imo Holland left money on the table. A PR disaster to 90% of the League with a player that wanted/needed to be here and would likely have his earnings topped off regardless of the AAV we offered him could have been had for cheaper.

 

[Oilhawks]

Of course, like many things that happen behind the closed doors of a GMs office we don’t have enough information to confirm one way or the other. So you are left with your best guess based on the available information and at best an opinion can be formed. So like i said, I completely understand if you disagree with it. But my read of that situation, taking in the totality of what was known about that situation, my opinion is as I stated. I can’t peg an exact number, but imo Holland left money on the table. A PR disaster to 90% of the League with a player that wanted/needed to be here and would likely have his earnings topped off regardless of the AAV we offered him could have been had for cheaper.

What we do know, unless the insiders were making shit up, is that there was interest from other teams.

I’m still wondering what you think would have been a fair deal given that apparently nobody wanted the player.

Assuming there’s any validity to the rumour that Kane didn’t waive at the draft, there are teams that are still interested even after the freak injury and core injury. Unicorn players get paid and have more interest than vanilla players putting up the same amount of points.

Given the increasing cap, even a 40-50 point Kane would be good value for what he brings. The guy put up 24 goals in an injury riddled season.

My assertion is that he took less to stay here. The NMC is almost always an indication of that.

 

[FlameChampion]

Sharks forced to top off Kane’s contract. There was potential to get him cheaper.

I can’t confirm or prove one way or the other. Nor can anyone else. So it’s my opinion that Holland didn’t get him as cheap as possible. And with Hollands lazy negotiating I could see it.

Yes now everyone will disagree and say Holland did a perfect negotiation or whatever. So preemptive agree to disagree.

As for Kanes contract, I think Holland likely had to show he was negotiating and offering a market rate. I think that’s why he let Kane talk to teams before he officially signed him. I am sure Bettman had his fingers in it.

I do think it’s lame the sharks got out of that contract so easily. They broke a contract when it doesn’t seem like it was warranted.

Same thing with Perry but the Kane contract was obviously more substantial contract.

 

[Arpeggio]

I think keeping Kane is the right move, even if he didn't have a NMC. You don't know for certain who Skinner and Arvidsson are going to work with, and now you also have a young offensive prospect coming up who needs guys to play with. I think there's a decent chance Kane works his way into a top six role.

 

[CupofOil]

I would add that the offer sheet is a two party situation, the player has to be also willing and interested. In this case you are signing a contract on to a full, full rebuild with the flames. I don’t know what I would value in that situation, it’s hard to say but no matter what you would be making more money than you ever have had and in on scenario you have a real chance at a cup and in other, likely missing the playoffs for the contract.

Any young player who is coming off of a cheap ELC would take the offer sheet. If a team, even a rebuilding one, offers Broberg $4m+ he's gone unless the Oilers miraculously match.

 

[TheNumber4]

Bertuzzi just signed for 5.5 million and had less pts last season than Hobbled Kane did who played lots of 3rd line last season Bertuzzi was on the top 2 lines for the majority of the season, he would have had 55-60 points last season if healthy, and I'm sure the Oilers are more than happy to keep him

Yeh a couple years later removed from the flat cap era and with no PR concerns or possibility of contract being topped off. I don’t like the Bertuzzi contract or player anyways.

And I’ve been okay with Kane on the team even including last year and into the playoffs when people were calling for him to be traded. Going into this year, it depends on his health, we’re carrying a lot of risk if he won’t LTIR for us. It may be a risk worth taking though, considering Kane’s playoff game.

 

[SwedishFire]

There would absolutely be markets for Ceci and Kulak, I don't think the Oilers want to move on from either unless they are getting a clear cut upgrade back.

D-Men who play through all the way to a game 7 of a Cup Final have experience a lot of GMs covet, in Ceci's case he's also sorta oddly a big time game 7 performer, 2 goals and 1 primary assist in 3 game sevens. Not too shabby.

$2.7-$3.25 million in nothing for a D-Man in this market.

Add to that, Ceci is serviceable for a 2RD, and Ive would had kept Ceci if Nurse was moveable.
Ceci needs to build up himself again, after been left in fire by nurse for a year or two. He is absolulty a 2RD NHL D, and righthanded top 4 Ds is a tradetarget.

I would trade Ceci for a 2nd rounder and a D prospect. Then flip that 2nd rounder and someone more for a vet RD

 

[TheNumber4]

As for Kanes contract, I think Holland likely had to show he was negotiating and offering a market rate. I think that’s why he let Kane talk to teams before he officially signed him. I am sure Bettman had his fingers in it.

I do think it’s lame the sharks got out of that contract so easily. They broke a contract when it doesn’t seem like it was warranted.

Same thing with Perry but the Kane contract was obviously more substantial contract.

Maybe but there’s no requirement for that to happen so it’s a theory, like mine. At the time I thought letting him shop was to show him how little of a market there was for him.

It’s weird though, we never really go confirmation of a teams interest from insiders like we did with Henrique or Skinner. I don’t think the market was large for Kane. Not cause he’s a crappy player, but the reputation and bad PR and lockerroom issued.

What we do know, unless the insiders were making shit up, is that there was interest from other teams.

I’m still wondering what you think would have been a fair deal given that apparently nobody wanted the player.

Assuming there’s any validity to the rumour that Kane didn’t waive at the draft, there are teams that are still interested even after the freak injury and core injury. Unicorn players get paid and have more interest than vanilla players putting up the same amount of points.

Given the increasing cap, even a 40-50 point Kane would be good value for what he brings. The guy put up 24 goals in an injury riddled season.

My assertion is that he took less to stay here. The NMC is almost always an indication of that.

We heard confirmed numbers and offers on Skinner and Henrique from specific teams as free agents. We didn’t hear that for Kane except general speculation that other teams may have interest as well. So maybe?

I remember hearing Washington had interest and that was that. But regardless of the other teams interest, I still think Holland didn’t optimize the negotiation for other reasons. He never does. He doesn’t have the ability to.

I already addressed the AAV in my previous post. I don’t think Kane at his AAV is a bad contract either, it’s fair. But I still think Holland left money on the table.

 

[FlameChampion]

Maybe but there’s no requirement for that to happen so it’s a theory, like mine. At the time I thought letting him shop was to show him how little of a market there was for him.

It’s weird though, we never really go confirmation of a teams interest from insiders like we did with Henrique or Skinner. I don’t think the market was large for Kane. Not cause he’s a crappy player, but the reputation and bad PR and lockerroom issued.

Yeah honestly we will never know.

Even the Perry thing, there is probably discussions going on and I bet Chicago probably had pay Perry something. But we will never know because the NHL will never let us know.

 

[VainGretzky]

Yeh a couple years later removed from the flat cap era and with no PR concerns or possibility of contract being topped off. I don’t like the Bertuzzi contract or player anyways.

And I’ve been okay with Kane on the team even including last year and into the playoffs when people were calling for him to be traded. Going into this year, it depends on his health, we’re carrying a lot of risk if he won’t LTIR for us. It may be a risk worth taking though, considering Kane’s playoff game.

Kane's contract was fair at the time and the Oilers were very light on the LW when it was signed, it was also a UFA signing and he wanted an NMC for a reason, Almost everyone was ecstatic at the time he re-signed after injury bug has hit him last 2 seasons hampering production never happened this would not even be a discussion right now

 

[TheNumber4]

Yeah honestly we will never know.

Even the Perry thing, there is probably discussions going on and I bet Chicago probably had pay Perry something. But we will never know because the NHL will never let us know.

Which is why I’m stating my theory as a theory and not fact. An opinion, and not a statement of truth. Some things just can’t be confirmed, I’d love to see confirmation one way or the other though, might have to wait till the Kane autobiography comes out.

Kane's contract was fair at the time and the Oilers were very light on the LW when it was signed, it was also a UFA signing and he wanted an NMC for a reason, Almost everyone was ecstatic at the time he re-signed after injury bug has hit him last 2 seasons ao this would not even be a discussion right now

Fair for the quality/type of player he is. Yes, I would agree.

 

[BarDownBobo]

I think Ceci and Kulak will both be shipped out. One will go for a defenseman prospect that's close to making the jump with a salary of 1M-1.5M. This player is likely waiver eligible. The other will have some picks and prospects attached for a much needed upgrade on RD.

To me the guy they should be looking at now is Victor Soderstrom. With all the moves Utah has made this summer he’s been passed over big time on their depth chart and he’s waiver eligible now. To me it’d make a ton of sense to move Ceci, bring in Soderstrom on the cheap and then plan to have him and Stecher fight it out/rotate in on the bottom pairing with Kulak. See if Coffey and company can bring out that potential that lead to him being picked 11th overall a few years back like they did with Broberg.

 

[Captain Controversy]

Remember when people were saying Adam Bodquist was better than Bouchard? Lol

 

[LTIR]

Remember when people were saying Adam Bodquist was better than Bouchard? Lol

As if he wasn't their draft year.
Boqvist was actually more offensive of the 2 when they were on the same team/same pairing